Appalling Pans. Is HDV any good?

[Marlon Torres]

here's a 24f pan with fast motion from my movie, i think it looks absolutely fine and very film like motion... thats my opinion though.

http://www.citizencine.com/films/celestie/pan.mov

[Dom Stevenson]

that's really impressive Marlon. No sign of the interference evident on my pans. I just watched yours 3 times. Mine gave me a headache each time i watched it.
Looks like i need to experiment some more.
Thanks for that.
Dom

[Blake Calhoun]

Your pan looks good. And you followed the "rules" of shooting progressive (or film). Follow your subject and you won't see judder.

I own an A1 and have used an HVX on numerous shoots. They're both nice cameras, but I'll take the A1 over the HVX for most shoots (I do like the over and under cranking of the HVX though).

A lot of the early HDV cameras did have motion issues, so did a lot of the early DV cameras (ever pan through a tree with a VX1000?). But, today these are really non-issues in my opinion. A lot of the stuff you hear about HDV today is marketing propaganda from Panasonic and their users - and like I said, I am a Panasonic user (actually shoot with the Varicam quite often).

While HDV is harder to edit than DVCProHD, I think as an acquistion format it is solid. Just transcode in post.

Of course the dirty little secret with the HVX is it needs A TON OF LIGHT. I almost had to do an entire reshoot because we shot "moody" on purpose and got back to edit and the footage (especially in the shadows) looked like Super 8mm film.

[Mikko Lopponen]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

In theory, you're right. But I cannot see any difference (motion-wise) watching my 25p on a HD PC monitor (obviously 60 Hz) and a 42" plasma TV (obviously 25/50 Hz compatible, at least in the specs sheet). It beats me, why...

I can see a difference between 50 and 60 in my lcd. It's refresh rate is 60 and 50fps material has small jerks. 25 is more difficult to spot though, that's true.

[Mark Rook]

I've done another test using the 25f setting. I managed to get some much better panning. I used 1/50th shutter and auto aperture with 1/32 ND filter.

Here's a vid (44mb) which also includes some close-ups, all shot at 25f....

www.rcflights.co.uk/Videos1/25f.wmv

Mark

[Chris Soucy]

There isn't an HDV camera made which doesn't have issues with high data rate change in the field of view (any other camera system with a prime frame compression regime is similarly afflicted). The 25 mbs data rate limitation on the tape transport means that if every single pixel on every frame is different, somat has to go. With HDV, it's detail.

Pan too fast and you will lose detail, period. Slow pan, you're cool. Get sommat into the forground which ISN'T changeing, even better.

Take the situaion where you're on a lake/ river bank shooting across water. Do a fast pan across the trees on the other side and it will go to hell in a hand basket.

Now, same place, but now you're shooting a racing 4 or 8 coming towards you. Before it gets to you you're zooming out to keep them as stationary in the frame as possible. As they get near to you, the pan starts.

Object: to keep them in the middle of the picture.

Because you're trying to keep them centered in 50 +% of the frame, their data rate is not varying by that much. The background can be going past at a great speed, but because the data rate of 50% of the frame is staying more or less constant, the detail in the background isn't getting trashed (so much).

Add that to the fact that the viewer is looking at the boat and the rowers, not the ever more smeary background whizzing by as they get level with you, and the effects can be ameliorated considerably.

(Er, am I allowed to use "ameliorated" on this site, whoops!)

Of course, it's all made worse by using 24/ 25f (p), the use of which totally eludes me - if "I" wanted to shoot film, I'd buy a Arie/ Panaflex and a shed load of film and go do. I bought an A1 instead and it shoots beautifull 50i.

But hey, that just my PO, so no descents from great heights from the assembled - OK? (er, please!)

Cheers,

Chris

PS. IMHO, the scenario above can be used to great advantage. It's almost like getting back the DOF missing with these cameras. Shoot a subject up close and personal and keep them in the centre frame no matter how fast they're going and in which direction. The background seems to go to s**t and the subject just jumps out as a result - hey presto, instant DOF.