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-   -   20x zoom lens -- various topics (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/28866-20x-zoom-lens-various-topics.html)

Josh Brusin July 13th, 2004 08:27 AM

20x zoom lens -- various topics
 
whats the skinny there? Also how much for body only (or will that be back burnered until sets sell). Selling in August, no?

Rob Lohman July 13th, 2004 08:37 AM

see the skinny here, yes, camera will sell in August.

Chris Hurd July 13th, 2004 08:37 AM

All yer questions (and more) are on the XL2 Watchdog site on the XL2 Skinny page. But go ahead and discuss what you found out, right here.

Wow, Rob, that was like a simultaneous post there! Pretty cool!

;-)

Rob Lohman July 13th, 2004 08:41 AM

According to the times it was EXACTLY at the same time... Guess
we are on XL2 sterious heh. Anyways, we both linked to a
different page. So go read Josh! <g>

Shawn McBee August 26th, 2004 01:18 AM

20x manual lens?
 
Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about whether or not Canon is planning on releasing a 20x manual for the XL2. I know it'd be nice not to have to wiegh your options between a 20x zoom or a manual with only 16x.

Marty Hudzik August 26th, 2004 02:39 AM

Canon keeps very tight lipped about stuff like this so I don't think anyone has heard anything. However if I were a beting man I would say don't expect anything like that for a while. This is just my opinion....I have no source at Canon. BUt logic says they can sell oodles of their current 16x manual lens as is so there is no real drive for them to produce a 20x version anytime soon.

Quick question for all:

The benefits of the manual lens are strictly for practical focusing and zooming reasons right? In other words assuming the 20x Fluorite lens and the manual are both in focus and have approximate same Fstop and zoom. Are the images comparable? JUst the manual lens gives the user absolute control whereas the servo lens doesn't?

In particular I am wondering if the DOF is more shallow on the manual lens or if this is about equal since the CCD size is the major factor for that.....

Rainer Hoffmann August 26th, 2004 04:27 AM

Marty,

the DOF depends only on the chip size, the f-stop and the focal length of the lens. The type of lens does not effect the DOF.

However, the 20x lens has a longer maximum focal lenght than the 16x lens. Therefore, if you use the max focal lenght of the 20x lens and the same f-stop, the DOF will be more shallow than the DOF of the 16x lens at max focal lenght. But of course you have a different Field of View because of the difference in focal length.

Hope this helps.

Jean-Philippe Archibald August 26th, 2004 06:14 AM

Quote:

The benefits of the manual lens are strictly for practical focusing and zooming reasons right?
Yes, these are the principals selling arguments. But on the Xl1, the manual lenses were definitly sharper than the stock 16X lens. The new 20X servo is supposed to be really sharp, so we will have to wait until true users experiences with both lens to answer this question.

Jim Giberti August 26th, 2004 09:44 AM

It looks like we'll be seeing the first Xl2s any day now, so we can put most speculation to rest. I've got a fulll package coming in spite of the fact that I've got a 14x lens and Mini35. For the money, it seems too good of a deal for a run and gun F series lens with that type of tele capabilty, OIS, NDs and programable functions.

One of the first things I'll do is an accurate test in the studio w/ hi res monitor to compare the 14 and 20 side by side.

Joel Guy August 26th, 2004 10:09 AM

Excellent! I want to hear about the results of that.

Richard Tuplin September 7th, 2004 01:51 PM

XL2 with 3x and 20x lens
 
Hi Guys,
Please accept my apologies if this has been asked before, as I'm new to the discussion!

I'm thinking of purchasing a XL2 when they're released in the UK (I currently use a Canon XM2 with which I'm very impressed). However, I have a couple of questions which you might be able to provide the answers to for me.

1) for you guys in the US who already have the XL2 (lucky people!) I gather it has a 16 stage zoom speed with the supplied 20x lens. What's your thoughts on this - does it work well and is it easy to handle? I mainly film railway activity so need a camera that can zoom out quick to follow a train at 125 miles per hour, whilst also being able to zoom slowly to follow one doing 25mph!

2) Whilst I would buy the kit complete with the 20x lens, I do a reasonable amount of workshop filming where were in tight environments. Hence I'm thinking about purchasing the 3x wide angle zoom as well. If I did this would the lens still have the 16 stage zoom? (I appreciate the difference in telephoto lengths.) Also is the 3x wide angle significantly wider than the 20x on its widest (i.e. no zoom) setting?

3) Finally, am I right in assuming the XL2 has a LANC control socket on it, which can be used with the Manfrotto zoom control? I seem to think i've read this in the spec somewhere, but can't find it now!

Thanks for your help, in advance, and I hope I've posted this in the right place!!

Cheers
Richard

Pete Bauer September 7th, 2004 05:21 PM

Richard,

I just upgraded from the GL2 to the XL2. Apologies that I'm an amateur who has had the XL2 too short a time to answer all your questions fully and accurately, but here's my best:

The 16 stage zoom is awesome! The slowest speed is so slow that I'd call it "subtle" while the fastest speed is snappy -- comparable to full throttle on a GL2's 20x zoom. Further, with the zoom control set to "constant," one may change the zoom stage on the fly; as the zoom speed is changed, the zoom number briefly flashes in the viewfinder.

As often noted, the wide end of the 20x isn't terribly wide, so a 3x might be called for if tight shots are part of your shooting style. Alternatively, I believe I've read a post in which someone intended to use a wide adaptor on the 20x, review pending. I just haven't shot enough with it yet to really get a sense for how limiting the wide end might be.

I don't know about the zoom stage feature with a 3x. That control is on the camera body, so my GUESS would be that the camera body sends a signal regarding zoom speed to the lens, and the lens just does what it is told. In that case, it should work with the 3x. But, again, that is totally conjecture on my part; it is possible that special circuitry is built into the new 20x lens to allow for this, whereas the older 3x might not have it.

Yes, it does have an industry-standard LANC socket. It is located right below the Firewire terminal on the back spine of the handle.

Not tempted by the announcement of that Sony HDV cam? ;-)

Barry Goyette September 7th, 2004 09:10 PM

Richard, see my post under "xl2 first impressions" for more...but here's what I found. 3x lens appears to have all zoom speeds...certainly the slowest one works... Yes the 3x zoom is significantly wider than the 20x, I think its strength is in tight situations...You will find the 20x limiting in small areas.Be careful using the 3x in autofocus mode...I find it loses focus during zooms quite badly when in autofocus...stick it on manual and you shouldn't need to adjust focus in most wide situations anyway.

Barry

Aaron Koolen September 7th, 2004 11:38 PM

How does the 20x lens preset feature work?
 
Could someone enlighten me to how this switch/button works on the Xl2's new lens? I'm interested to find out if it's a two state setting? i.e. Can you pop to the preset setting and then hit it again and pop back to the original, or does it just go to one place?

Cheers
Aaron

Chris Hurd September 7th, 2004 11:44 PM

It's a one-shot deal, it doesn't work "in reverse" back to where you started from. However as long as you don't change it, it's always in there. The particular focal length or focal plane is retained in memory until you reset it.

Richard Tuplin September 8th, 2004 06:18 AM

Barry & Pete,
Many thanks to both of you for the reply. I presume the GL2 is the US version of our XM2? Its also interesting to read that the 3x zoom loses autofocus at times, i'll watch for that! Thanks for the comment on the zoom speed Pete, sounds like its ideal for my railway filming!

What do you think to the mic on the XL2? On the XM2 the mic is fantasic - good allround sound, mine is fitted with a Rycote wind mic and there's no wind noise on it at all, even in a gale! Is the XL2 the same or would an extenal mic be a better option?

I'll go and find and have a read of your XL2 first impessions post Barry. I've since been looking around the web at the 3x zoom lens and most of the advertising for it states 16 speed zoom. The interesting thing seems to be that it cost in UK pounds is almost identical to the cost in US dollers! @ the 600 mark. May seriously think about buying one in the US and importing it!

Richard Tuplin September 8th, 2004 06:21 AM

Pete,
Sorry mean't to say, I've looked at the info on this Sony HDV cam. Can't say I'm immediately impressed with it - although I reserve comment until I've seen one!

The other reason for going for the XL2 is that I prefer shoulder mounted camera's, as when we're in tight situations or safety reasons preclude the use of a tripod, I do think the shoulder mounted models give a steadier picture!

Rich

Greg Boston September 8th, 2004 06:35 AM

I did see an accessory type shoulder pad on Sony's website while scrolling through the accessories. The pad reminded me more of the original shoulder rest that came with the XL1 and 1s. Still, it looks like an interesting camera. But, my XL2 arrives this Friday and I get to retain backward compatibilty with my XL-1 stuff. A very big plus for my personal needs.

regards,

-gb-

Richard Tuplin September 8th, 2004 08:42 AM

Hi Greg,
Yes, that was one of my reasons for wanting to stick with Canon, that all the batteries etc.. would still work on the new camera, reducing the overhall upgrade costs!

Norman Woo September 14th, 2004 07:58 PM

Push AF on the XL2 20X Lens?
 
I noticed that this button is no longer on the 20X lens. Is it located somewhere else?

I've gotten so use to it on my XL1. I always shoot in manual focus and tap the "Push AF" to nudge the focus which works pretty well for me.

Now I'll have to use the lens focus barrel.

Thanks

Chris Hurd September 14th, 2004 09:00 PM

Actually, there is a Push AF on the new 20x lens. Except it's a momentary slide switch instead of a button. There's a photo of it on this page, fifth image down.

Jim Sofranko September 15th, 2004 07:13 PM

20x lens comparisons
 
I was curious how people are liking or disliking the new 20x lens on the XL2.

Is the 20x longer or wider than the 16x?

Is the 20x as wide as the 3x wide lense?

How about other characterisitics such as sharpness, contrast and such?

Many thanks in advance.

Greg Milneck September 15th, 2004 07:24 PM

I have never used the 16X or 3X, but I can tell you this is a very high quality lens. It has received Canons L designation, which means it is a well made and designed lens.

The lens is very heavy and has a great feel....also very sharp.

Barry Goyette September 15th, 2004 08:20 PM

Jim

the lens is longer than the 16x...but not any wider...ditto for the 3x.

It is a beautiful lens...I don't know how it really compares with the 16x...in terms of sharpness, contrast..but the OIS seems decidedly more aggressive, and to my eye...better. the autofocusing is much more effective, I have yet to see it hunt in the way the 16x could.

The real difference here is the chip, I think...I never saw any real difference in sharpness between my 16x IS II and my 16x manual, and the 16x manual seems every bit as sharp as the 20x...and both look absolutely beautiful on the xl2.

Barry

Chris Hurd September 15th, 2004 09:41 PM

See a complete comparison of fields of view, etc. here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/articles/article04.php

David Lach September 15th, 2004 11:04 PM

Barry, so you have a 16x manual servo and the 20x AF? Did you do some objective comparisons between the 2? Like resolution chart comparison? I'm very interested to know the real difference between them as far as resolution and sharpness are concerned.

Jim Sofranko September 16th, 2004 07:25 AM

Chris, thanks for the link. Very helpful, I must have missed it when I was previously browsing your site.

Is it possible to shot handheld, even with the OIS, zoomed in all the way on the 20x? Or is it truly for tripod applications?

Aaron Shaw September 16th, 2004 11:48 AM

I believe Barry got some good footage zoomed in all the way while hand-holding the XL2.

Regarding Resolution: I'm curious to see if there is a difference between the 3x wide and 20x.

Barry Goyette September 16th, 2004 11:59 AM

David...nothing scientific..The san Diego footage (bikes and convention center) I posted last week was shot with both lenses... I can't really tell you which is which without going back to the original tapes...which says something...Test charts with DV footage don't tell you any thing as far as the lens goes. The format is the limiting factor on every test I've run. I'll try to do some more comparisons soon, or maybe post some stills from San Diego...I'm buried here so It may be a few days.

Barry

David Lach September 16th, 2004 04:58 PM

Thanks Barry, but I want them now! :D

Just kidding of course. I appreciate your help.

Jim Giberti September 16th, 2004 05:18 PM

Yes if you've got a reasonably steady hand you can get fine results.

Marty Hudzik October 22nd, 2004 09:26 PM

ND ring odd behavior on 20x?
 
IF you move the neutral density filter slightly...not goining all the way to next marking it still seems to have an effect on the light coming in. For example....I have it off, I turn it about halfway to 1/6 yet I notice it stops down a little. Then I turn it more and it stops down again before it gets all the way to 1/6. The same behavior exists from 1/6-1/32. Why is this?

And would it hurt to film at one of these stop-gap settings? Is this even normal?

Thanks!

Greg Boston October 22nd, 2004 09:38 PM

I just checked mine. It does the same thing. The only bad thing I saw was that the VF doesn't display ND if you aren't at one of the two actual positions. But it was indeed variable like you said.

Hmmm. A bonus feature.

=gb=

Jeff Donald October 22nd, 2004 09:55 PM

It's not a defect or fault. Pro BQ cameras work the same way. I would not select the in-between positions. It wasn't designed to operate in that manner.

Drew Daywalt October 28th, 2004 10:08 AM

XL2 20x lens not usable with Century optics lens? help!
 
I just read that the XL2 20 x lens is not usible with the 72 mm Century Optics wide angle lens because the curvature of the glass is such that the outside glass on the 20 x zoom will touch the inside glass on the wide angle and scratch them.

BUT -- I just got the 72 mm Century Optics Fisheye lens (OVS-FEWA-3XL) from the guys at Samy's Camera in Venice CA, and now I'm worried that it might also scratch the glass on the lenses. Samy's didn't have an answer for me.

Does anyone here know?

Thanks a million for your time,
Drew

David Lach October 28th, 2004 11:45 AM

It's true, there's no wide angle adapter for the 20x lens yet, this was announced a while ago. But Century are apparently working on one.

Maybe you could try to use step rings. A 72mm to 77mm with a 77mm to 72mm. That would cost you around $20. Maybe there's even spacer rings that are already 72mm to 72mm. Check it out. Although I'm really not sure what kind of results it will produce when focusing. And it might also vignette. Might want to try it out in a store first.

Drew Daywalt October 28th, 2004 12:19 PM

Thanks David,

I used the fish eye adapter once and both lenses seem fine, but the potential of scratching them scares the crap out of me. At this point I'm thinking of returning the Century Fish eye and just upgrading to the canon 3x wide angle.

anyone have thoughts on that lens?


thanks for your time,
Drew

Jean-Philippe Archibald October 28th, 2004 12:33 PM

The 3X lens is certenly a great addtion to an XL2, but it is not a fish eyes lens. You will get a wider angle than the stock 20X, but not as wide as with the fish eyes adapter, and without the extreme distortion.

Jimmy McKenzie October 28th, 2004 12:51 PM

If you are using the xl2 for commercial purposes, then the 3x wide is a must for your collection of gear. Perfect for tight spots or close to objects where the background assumes a gradual perspective.

To this lens, (the 3x) there are aftermarket wide adapters you can add to achieve the "skateboardermegasfisheyevideo" look.

Greg Boston October 28th, 2004 01:57 PM

David,

The spacer ring idea won't work. The correct adapter for the 20x and 16x auto lenses has a bayonet mount just like the lense hood uses. It doesn't screw on the front. That is why I am selling you my .6 because it's a clamp on made for the 14x manual lense. I need the bayonet mount version.

regards,

=gb=


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