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-   Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/)
-   -   XL2 pricing (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/28881-xl2-pricing.html)

Aaron Koolen July 13th, 2004 04:46 PM

Well seeing as Canon mention they think the camera will be popular for the indy filmmaking market too, they'll need a new lens cause I'd imagine the standard one, not having multiple focus pull ability is silly. That or the fancy new SDK will allow us to control that from a laptop or even better, a PDA. That would be excellent.

Aaron

Jean-Philippe Archibald July 13th, 2004 05:26 PM

Is there information available on the price of the color viewfinder for those who already own some XL lenses and who would like to buy the body only and the viewfinder?

Jeff Donald July 13th, 2004 05:31 PM

Body only is $3999 USD, no lens.

Jean-Philippe Archibald July 13th, 2004 05:34 PM

Jeff, are you saying that there is only the lens missing on the body kit? the viewfinder is included?

Jeff Donald July 13th, 2004 05:42 PM

Yes, only the lens is missing is my understanding. The old viewfinders (with the exception of the B&W finder) are not compatible.

Jean-Philippe Archibald July 13th, 2004 05:55 PM

Thanks for clarifying this point Jeff!

Kent Metschan July 13th, 2004 06:41 PM

I was very excited about reading the details of this camera until the price hit. $5,000!!! There's a big difference between 4k and 5k if you ask me. Most of the talk today has been about it finally edging out the dvx100a. They matched the 24p, xlr inputs, and beat them on the interchangeable lenses and native 16x9. Sure it's better, but I'd hope so since it's gonig to cost $1,500 (42%) more.

After 3 years I was really expeting to get more camera for the money. Not more camera for more money.

With the used XL1s market at about $2,500 it alsmost sounds better to just buy 2 of those. Who am I kidding, I'll buy the new one and now get to brag that I own a $5,000 camera.

Jean-Philippe Archibald July 13th, 2004 06:44 PM

The street price should be a little bit lower when the camera will appear on the stores.

Dan Euritt July 14th, 2004 01:50 PM

$2k for a nice lense that has killer image stabilization seems favorable, but when you plug it in onto the camera, it's suddenly not worth the money because of the backfocus issues that this camera line is well-known for.

i have the l1, l2, xl1, and xl1s... the xl1 has been serviced by canon in irvine, but i've never had the same clean focus repeatability that you get with a manual lens... for $2k, they should have given us a manual backfocus adjustment on the lens itself.

i've shot with a jvc gy-dv500 camera, even with the el cheapo packaged lens, it puts out a better picture than the xl1s... and they want $5k for the xl2? please.

the other issue is the "fireflys" that show up when shooting at night... that may be inherent to the image stabilization(??), but paying $2k for lousy backfocus and fireflys is a bit much to ask.

due to the type of outdoor sports work i do, i suppose i'd have to step up to the xl2 if i needed another camera, nothing else quite fits for what i do, but right now i'm fed up with canon.

Jeff Donald July 14th, 2004 01:59 PM

The "fireflies" are indeed a byproduct of the optical IS. I've owned both the XL1 and XL1s and back focus has not been an issue for me and the vast majority of users. Yes, I understand that doesn't help your situation where you've probably experienced considerable frustration with back focus issues. I think it is the price you pay for having removable AF lenses with IS in this price range. Canon still has a 16x manual lens in the product line and the 14x is available on the used market quite frequently.

Dan Euritt July 14th, 2004 02:36 PM

jeff, the xl1/xl1s backfocus problem has been well documented, it's even discussed on this site: http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article30.php

your casual dismissal of the scope of this problem is totally at odds with hundreds of posts on both the usenet and on websites... i would suggest that you do a search on google/google groups for "xl1 backfocus".

on top of that, show me any other prosumer camera, outside of canon, that has that volume of complaints regarding backfocus... there are none.

i think that the root cause of the problem is the removeable lense... this is what, the fifth-generation camera that canon has done, but they continue to not provide us with a method of adjusting the backfocus.

"price that you pay" isn't a valid excuse... for instance, why can't i update the xl2 operating system via firewire? you can update the canon still cameras that way... even the $900 digital slr base model has that capability.

once you can update the camera o.s., you can adjust the backfocus via software, if we are to believe that is indeed possible... isn't that what the factory service center claims that it does? i'd like to know the details on that.

Jean-Philippe Archibald July 14th, 2004 02:46 PM

I am not an expert on this, but on the 14 manual lens, adjusting the backfocus means to change to position of the rear glass of the lens. I am pretty sure that it is the same thing that Canon does when you send an auto lens for a backfocus adjustement. You can't do that via sowtware, in fact, it is not related to the camera, but to the lens. That is why other prosummers camcorders doesn't have this problem (they have fixed lens).

A very small amount of user have back focus problem with the auto lens. You only see them on newsgroup. People without problems don't post to say "Hey, just want to tell you that the backfocus of my lens is well adjusted".

Jeff Donald July 14th, 2004 02:52 PM

Quote:

your casual dismissal of the scope of this problem is totally at odds with hundreds of posts on both the usenet and on websites...
Hundreds of posts and tens of thousands of units sold, probably hundreds of thousands worldwide. Seems like a problem, but not the proportions you make it out to be. A few hundred out of a hundred thousand (?) is a pretty small percentage.

Quote:

on top of that, show me any other prosumer camera, outside of canon, that has that volume of complaints regarding back-focus... there are none.
Show me another prosumer camera that has interchangeable lenses...there are none.

Quote:

but they continue to not provide us with a method of adjusting the backfocus.
As I stated, back focus adjustments are available on the manual lenses.

Quote:

price that you pay" isn't a valid excuse... for instance, why can't i update the xl2 operating system via firewire? you can update the canon still cameras that way... even the $900 digital slr base model has that capability.
Firmware updates are done not via FireWire (base unit your refer does not even have FireWire) but via files copied to compact flash cards. The firmware updates are to fix specific issues with specific models. They never contain new features, nor add new capabilities. The Canon 10D had a back focus issue for some users (again mine does not) and Canon gladly adjusted any bodies and lenses sent for adjustment.

I do not have any specific details regarding the methods Canon uses to adjust back focus.

Dan Euritt July 14th, 2004 03:36 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jean-Philippe Archibald : People without problems don't post to say "Hey, just want to tell you that the backfocus of my lens is well adjusted". -->>>

but how many people are having backfocus problems, that don't complain on the internet? we can't accurately quantify the size of the problem, but when there are hundreds of complaints, you can be sure that it's a major issue.

the point remains that canon still has not provided us with a way to adjust the backfocus.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Show me another prosumer camera that has interchangeable lenses...there are none.-->>>

show me how much extra $$$ i'm already paying for an interchangeable lense system that won't allow the most basic backfocus adjustment.

i guess that i'll have to re-phrase my point about the update: my $87 xdrive pro has an updateable o.s. via the usb port... my little panasonic video camera is updateable the same way... are you guys claiming that software updates can't happen via the firewire port?

i do agree that it could be a moot point wrt to the backfocus issue, tho... that has to be a physical adjustment, but have you seen the minolta dimage? the image stabilization isn't done by the lense, it happens at the ccd pickup itself, which is mounted in a gyro... how about an xl2 backfocus adjustment there, if it can't happen in the lense itself? anything!

i have two xl's with the same backfocus problem... it's no coincidence, and it's not a fluke, and the issue hasn't been addressed with the xl2.

Jean-Philippe Archibald July 14th, 2004 04:20 PM

It has been adressed by Canon in 1998 with the release of the great Canon 14x manual lens.


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