XL2 pricing

A. J. deLange · July 15th, 2004, 02:34 PM

I think there may be confusion between two types of "back focus". If I go to the Nikon D1 site back focus is discussed at length. In this context it refers to the tendency of the autofocus algorithms to focus the lens somewhat behind the subject. This is indeed repairable by tweaking the autofocus algorithm. In the context of this site back focus refers to setting the focus at the rear of the lens i.e. making sure that the image plane is coincident with the surface of the CCD's. That's a physical adjustment. Either you have to move the rear element of the lens (which, as has been pointed out, is what you do with the adjustment on the 16x manual) or the position of the CCD assembly. Clearly neither can be done through firmware (unless the CCD's are servoed which I doubt).

A.J.

Kevin Lepp · July 15th, 2004, 03:43 PM

Someone please explain to me what Back Focus is. Im new to all of this and am not clear what this is. What does it do?

thanks,

Chris Hurd · July 15th, 2004, 05:40 PM

<< i have two xl's with the same backfocus problem... it's no coincidence, and it's not a fluke, and the issue hasn't been addressed with the xl2. >>

You simply cannot make this sweeping assumption with any validity whatsoever. Only when you get your hands on the lens itself and use it, then you can empirically assess its performance. Let those who have handled the camera report what they've found regarding the focus on the 20x lens.

Also, it has a focus preset function which lets you repeatedly return to a predetermined focal plane. It is tack-sharp and holds critical focus beautifully throughout the entire zoom range and back again. I would like to hear from others who have played with it and can back me up on this.

It's not the same lens; it's completely re-engineered from before. You don't know how good or bad this new lens is until you've actually tried it, and that's a fact.

If you must have a backfocus adjustment, then just buy the 16x manual lens which has it, and you're all set. Hope this helps,

Dan Euritt · July 18th, 2004, 10:47 AM

a focus preset function won't overcome a backfocus problem.

and removeable pro lense systems have a backfocus adjustment for a reason.

if i could use a non-stabilized lense for the work i do, it wouldn't be with an xl-series camera.

Chris Hurd · July 18th, 2004, 01:35 PM

<< a focus preset function won't overcome a backfocus problem. >>

I mentioned the focus preset function in an attempt to get you to understand that this is an entirely new lens. You won't know if there's a backfocus problem or not until you try it for yourself. But I doubt that'll happen at this point.

<< if i could use a non-stabilized lense for the work i do, it wouldn't be with an xl-series camera. >>

In that case I hope you'll find some of our other camera forums useful to you. If there's a particular model or price range we don't cover that you'd like to discuss, please let me know as I'd like to accomodate everyone who visits here.

If one certain camcorder or manufacturer isn't right for you, then I'd like to recommend our other areas of this site. My goal is to offer one-stop research and discussion no matter what you're looking for. We have a broad range of message boards here. Hope this helps,

Sunny Dhinsey · July 19th, 2004, 04:32 AM

I don't know if this has been covered already (sorry if it has).

H Preston Video Retail (UK) says that the UK retail price for the PAL Canon XL2 is to be around £4,300 for the basic 20x Lens/Body package.

I guess my XL1s will do fine for now!

Chris Hurd · July 19th, 2004, 09:44 AM

Thanks for bringing us back on topic, Sunny! What a relief,

Ed Smith · July 19th, 2004, 11:36 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Sunny Dhinsey : I don't know if this has been covered already (sorry if it has).

H Preston Video Retail (UK) says that the UK retail price for the PAL Canon XL2 is to be around £4,300 for the basic 20x Lens/Body package.

I guess my XL1s will do fine for now! -->>>

Same for me I guess I'll have to wait for the price to drop and dream about it in the mean time. If I remember rightly when the XL1 came out it was over £3000!!! I do hope that the price drops...

Sunny Dhinsey · July 19th, 2004, 01:05 PM

No problem Chris, I wondered if I had clicked into the right thread before posting!

Kalunga Lima · July 21st, 2004, 09:43 AM

Prices in Europe for PAL video equipment can sometimes be as high as 40% more than for similar NTSC gear in the USA becuase of taxes etc, but then we have free healthcare. One option is to buy PAL gear in NYC such as at B&H. After 911, because of VISA restrictions, I've found Singapore to be a good alternative for Europeans. I've had excellent service from www.expandore.com and would suspect that they will have the XL2 as soon as it is available.

Colin Barrett · July 21st, 2004, 09:54 AM

I was told at the XL2's Pinewood (London) launch that the "typical" retail price would be in the region of £4,200, so with discounting and hassling I guess it'll come to under £4k pretty quickly. Unfortunately, we always get taken to the cleaners when it comes to GBP pricing relative to other currencies!

Colin

Andrew Petrie · July 21st, 2004, 10:09 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Colin Barrett : Unfortunately, we always get taken to the cleaners when it comes to GBP pricing relative to other currencies! -->>>

Of course! That Royal Family needs money to live on too ya know ;)

I'll be hunting the Canadian market for the best XL2 price, shipments from the US always get nailed with rediculous taxes and brokerage fees these days *sigh*

July 15th, 2004, 03:43 PM	#32
Kevin Lepp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 38	Someone please explain to me what Back Focus is. Im new to all of this and am not clear what this is. What does it do? thanks, __________________ Kevin

July 15th, 2004, 05:40 PM	#33
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< i have two xl's with the same backfocus problem... it's no coincidence, and it's not a fluke, and the issue hasn't been addressed with the xl2. >> You simply cannot make this sweeping assumption with any validity whatsoever. Only when you get your hands on the lens itself and use it, then you can empirically assess its performance. Let those who have handled the camera report what they've found regarding the focus on the 20x lens. Also, it has a focus preset function which lets you repeatedly return to a predetermined focal plane. It is tack-sharp and holds critical focus beautifully throughout the entire zoom range and back again. I would like to hear from others who have played with it and can back me up on this. It's not the same lens; it's completely re-engineered from before. You don't know how good or bad this new lens is until you've actually tried it, and that's a fact. If you must have a backfocus adjustment, then just buy the 16x manual lens which has it, and you're all set. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 18th, 2004, 01:35 PM	#35
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< a focus preset function won't overcome a backfocus problem. >> I mentioned the focus preset function in an attempt to get you to understand that this is an entirely new lens. You won't know if there's a backfocus problem or not until you try it for yourself. But I doubt that'll happen at this point. << if i could use a non-stabilized lense for the work i do, it wouldn't be with an xl-series camera. >> In that case I hope you'll find some of our other camera forums useful to you. If there's a particular model or price range we don't cover that you'd like to discuss, please let me know as I'd like to accomodate everyone who visits here. If one certain camcorder or manufacturer isn't right for you, then I'd like to recommend our other areas of this site. My goal is to offer one-stop research and discussion no matter what you're looking for. We have a broad range of message boards here. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 19th, 2004, 04:32 AM	#36
Sunny Dhinsey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 127	I don't know if this has been covered already (sorry if it has). H Preston Video Retail (UK) says that the UK retail price for the PAL Canon XL2 is to be around £4,300 for the basic 20x Lens/Body package. I guess my XL1s will do fine for now! __________________ Sunny Dhinsey Director - www.filmlore.tv

July 19th, 2004, 09:44 AM	#37
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Thanks for bringing us back on topic, Sunny! What a relief, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 15th, 2004, 02:34 PM	#31
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	I think there may be confusion between two types of "back focus". If I go to the Nikon D1 site back focus is discussed at length. In this context it refers to the tendency of the autofocus algorithms to focus the lens somewhat behind the subject. This is indeed repairable by tweaking the autofocus algorithm. In the context of this site back focus refers to setting the focus at the rear of the lens i.e. making sure that the image plane is coincident with the surface of the CCD's. That's a physical adjustment. Either you have to move the rear element of the lens (which, as has been pointed out, is what you do with the adjustment on the 16x manual) or the position of the CCD assembly. Clearly neither can be done through firmware (unless the CCD's are servoed which I doubt). A.J.

July 18th, 2004, 10:47 AM	#34
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	a focus preset function won't overcome a backfocus problem. and removeable pro lense systems have a backfocus adjustment for a reason. if i could use a non-stabilized lense for the work i do, it wouldn't be with an xl-series camera.

July 19th, 2004, 11:36 AM	#38
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	<<<-- Originally posted by Sunny Dhinsey : I don't know if this has been covered already (sorry if it has). H Preston Video Retail (UK) says that the UK retail price for the PAL Canon XL2 is to be around £4,300 for the basic 20x Lens/Body package. I guess my XL1s will do fine for now! -->>> Same for me I guess I'll have to wait for the price to drop and dream about it in the mean time. If I remember rightly when the XL1 came out it was over £3000!!! I do hope that the price drops... __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

July 19th, 2004, 01:05 PM	#39
Sunny Dhinsey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 127	No problem Chris, I wondered if I had clicked into the right thread before posting! __________________ Sunny Dhinsey Director - www.filmlore.tv

July 21st, 2004, 09:43 AM	#40
Kalunga Lima Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Luanda - ANGOLA & Lisbon - PORTUGAL Posts: 160	PAL Prices in Europe Prices in Europe for PAL video equipment can sometimes be as high as 40% more than for similar NTSC gear in the USA becuase of taxes etc, but then we have free healthcare. One option is to buy PAL gear in NYC such as at B&H. After 911, because of VISA restrictions, I've found Singapore to be a good alternative for Europeans. I've had excellent service from www.expandore.com and would suspect that they will have the XL2 as soon as it is available. __________________ Kalunga Lima PMW-350, PDW-F350, PDW-EX1, MacBookPro, MacPro 8-Core, Final Cut Studio 2, Canon 5D MkII

July 21st, 2004, 09:54 AM	#41
Colin Barrett New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 11	I was told at the XL2's Pinewood (London) launch that the "typical" retail price would be in the region of £4,200, so with discounting and hassling I guess it'll come to under £4k pretty quickly. Unfortunately, we always get taken to the cleaners when it comes to GBP pricing relative to other currencies! Colin __________________ Colin Barrett http://www.simplydv.co.uk

July 21st, 2004, 10:09 AM	#42
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	<<<-- Originally posted by Colin Barrett : Unfortunately, we always get taken to the cleaners when it comes to GBP pricing relative to other currencies! -->>> Of course! That Royal Family needs money to live on too ya know ;) I'll be hunting the Canadian market for the best XL2 price, shipments from the US always get nailed with rediculous taxes and brokerage fees these days sigh __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)