My First XL2 Short...

AJ Silverman · December 1st, 2004, 07:23 PM

I liked it immensely. I respect the amount of work that went into the making(especially getting your lady to agree to being filmed al fresco). I kinda invision a bit of a different soundtrack for it though. The lead reminds me more of a private investigator coming home from a trying case, so I hear a jazzier 40's style private dick movie sound for it...but thats just me. Keep on keeping on.

Matthew Cherry · December 1st, 2004, 08:51 PM

I'm a private investigator in my day job...

No, honest, I am.

You're right, but I know what's coming next. ;) Whether or not it actually works is another thing...

THANKS!!!!!!!

Matt

David Lach · December 2nd, 2004, 12:29 PM

Matthew, you really want to shoot 2:3:3:2 for any kind of projection, digital or film. You want to keep your images clean (no diffusion filters or other smoothing techniques, because when blown up on a big screen it'll already soften), and you want progressive scaning all the way, without the resolution loss, that would occur if you had to deinterlace your 3:2 footage to edit it in 24p and project it in 24p.

So shoot 24p 2:3:3:2, edit in a 24p timeline by removing the fake frame (pull up) and when you're finished, you'll have the option to either keep it 24p for projection purposes or applying a 3:2 pull down for interlaced output such as TV.

December 2nd, 2004, 12:58 PM

Can the Xl1 do the same thing as the XL2 with regards to the 24fps?

Mathieu Ghekiere · December 2nd, 2004, 01:07 PM

If you mean shooting 24fps, no the XL1 can't.
It can only shoot in normal mode, and frame mode. The lather is 30 fps per second, or if you live in PAL land where I live, 25fps per second.
Although you have a slight resolution loss, although that ain't much.

December 2nd, 2004, 01:11 PM

For a better film look would you suggest the dvx100a or the xl2?

Thanks for the info.

Matthew Cherry · December 2nd, 2004, 01:32 PM

See was that so hard? THANKS DAVID!!!

Michael,

There are huge debates regarding the DVX and XL2 when it comes to "film look". If you would prefer to grab the highest resolution standard DV image you can in native 16:9 and tweak the color in post, the XL2 is the ticket. If you would rather have the look that the DVX produces in Camera without doing much in post, get the DVX. Both are wonderful cameras. Even though I bought the XL2 I am VERY impressed with the DVX.

Matt

Mathieu Ghekiere · December 2nd, 2004, 01:38 PM

Michael, Matthew is right. And I won't go in a too long debate about wich camera, because if you look in the XL2 forum or just perform a search here you will find a lot discussions about which one to choose and I'll think you'll find a lot more info there than I can give you.

In short: many people like the dvx100a cinema settings... a lot! The XL2 has also such a thing but there are still many people who still prefer the DVX.

The XL2 is sharper, has real 16:9 and has an interchangible lens system. If that matters to you (your options are a lot bigger, but it costs a lot, those options) then go for the XL2.

Price thag is a big difference. I think the DVX has a price thag from around the 3500 dollars, the XL2 5000, of 4500 I don't just know.

But there are many many differences, please do a search, I think you'll be happy to find all that information there.

But, as Chris (Hurd) here almost always says: pick up both in the shop and try and look what you like the most.

Good luck!
BTW: the XL2 still has the frame mode to, but with full resolution. Although I don't think many people will still use that if they have 24p.

David Lach · December 2nd, 2004, 06:12 PM

To add to what I wrote above, you have to make sure before shooting 2:3:3:2 that your editing software will in fact recognize the footage as 24p with a pull down so that it can automatically remove the fake frame for 24p editing. I know Premiere Pro 1.5 and Vegas do it, but I do not know about FCP. Something to check out before doing the shooting. You wouldn't want to be stuck with 2:3:3:2 footage with nothing to edit it on (in the way it was intended to). At the very worst, you can buy the DVFilm Maker software, which costs $150 and is designed to remove the fake frame and make a true 24p Quick Time sequence you can then edit in your NLE software for 24p footage shot with the 2:3:3:2 mode on either the DVX-100 or the XL2.

December 2nd, 2004, 09:17 PM

Quick question for you, what lighting kit did you use for your movie?

Matthew Cherry · December 3rd, 2004, 03:47 PM

Lowel DV Creator 55 Light Kit

Frank Aalbers · December 4th, 2004, 02:04 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Lach : To add to what I wrote above, you have to make sure before shooting 2:3:3:2 that your editing software will in fact recognize the footage as 24p with a pull down so that it can automatically remove the fake frame for 24p editing. I know Premiere Pro 1.5 and Vegas do it, but I do not know about FCP. Something to check out before doing the shooting. You wouldn't want to be stuck with 2:3:3:2 footage with nothing to edit it on (in the way it was intended to). At the very worst, you can buy the DVFilm Maker software, which costs $150 and is designed to remove the fake frame and make a true 24p Quick Time sequence you can then edit in your NLE software for 24p footage shot with the 2:3:3:2 mode on either the DVX-100 or the XL2. -->>>

Once you turn 2:3:3:2 footage to 24p , what do you sabve it in ? Since DV codec (good quality) can't handle 24p. What is a good quality codec to keep the 24p footage in for editing ?

Thanks !

Frank

Christopher C. Murphy · December 4th, 2004, 05:56 AM

Hey, I'm late to the game on seeing your short. Sorry! My comments are similar to others who posted, but I will say it's refreshing to see something with "style". Usually, I watch people's first shorts and their a rip-off the latest thing or an attempt to do "Star Wars" for about $7.50 in budget!

Anyway, I like seeing shorts like yours...they're actually watchable! Oh, and don't listen to modern day Hollywood studios...B&W is awesome.

Murph

Rob Lohman · December 4th, 2004, 06:06 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pennington : I do have a question though, if you shoot in 24p 2:3:3:2 for projection, what if you want to take that same footage and export to DVD? Would you loose anything? -->>>

No, since DVD's can be 24p as well. So you load the 2:3:3:2
footage in your 24p project in the NLE and then output a 24p
MPEG2 file and author it in 24p.

Frank Aalbers · December 4th, 2004, 01:00 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pennington : I do have a question though, if you shoot in 24p 2:3:3:2 for projection, what if you want to take that same footage and export to DVD? Would you loose anything? -->>>

No, since DVD's can be 24p as well. So you load the 2:3:3:2
footage in your 24p project in the NLE and then output a 24p
MPEG2 file and author it in 24p. -->>>

When you create a 24p mpeg and author it to DVD. Will the resulting DVD file be 3:2 pulled down data , or will the DVD player do that ?

Thanks !

December 2nd, 2004, 12:58 PM	#49
Michael Pennington Posts: n/a	Xl1 Can the Xl1 do the same thing as the XL2 with regards to the 24fps?

December 2nd, 2004, 01:11 PM	#51
Michael Pennington Posts: n/a	Then... For a better film look would you suggest the dvx100a or the xl2? Thanks for the info.

December 2nd, 2004, 09:17 PM	#55
Michael Pennington Posts: n/a	Hey Matthew Quick question for you, what lighting kit did you use for your movie?

December 4th, 2004, 05:56 AM	#58
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Great job Hey, I'm late to the game on seeing your short. Sorry! My comments are similar to others who posted, but I will say it's refreshing to see something with "style". Usually, I watch people's first shorts and their a rip-off the latest thing or an attempt to do "Star Wars" for about $7.50 in budget! Anyway, I like seeing shorts like yours...they're actually watchable! Oh, and don't listen to modern day Hollywood studios...B&W is awesome. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

December 4th, 2004, 06:06 AM	#59
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Re: Nice work Mathew <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pennington : I do have a question though, if you shoot in 24p 2:3:3:2 for projection, what if you want to take that same footage and export to DVD? Would you loose anything? -->>> No, since DVD's can be 24p as well. So you load the 2:3:3:2 footage in your 24p project in the NLE and then output a 24p MPEG2 file and author it in 24p. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 1st, 2004, 07:23 PM	#46
AJ Silverman Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 28	I liked it immensely. I respect the amount of work that went into the making(especially getting your lady to agree to being filmed al fresco). I kinda invision a bit of a different soundtrack for it though. The lead reminds me more of a private investigator coming home from a trying case, so I hear a jazzier 40's style private dick movie sound for it...but thats just me. Keep on keeping on.

December 1st, 2004, 08:51 PM	#47
Matthew Cherry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stamford, CT United States Posts: 212	I'm a private investigator in my day job... No, honest, I am. You're right, but I know what's coming next. ;) Whether or not it actually works is another thing... THANKS!!!!!!! Matt

December 2nd, 2004, 12:29 PM	#48
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Matthew, you really want to shoot 2:3:3:2 for any kind of projection, digital or film. You want to keep your images clean (no diffusion filters or other smoothing techniques, because when blown up on a big screen it'll already soften), and you want progressive scaning all the way, without the resolution loss, that would occur if you had to deinterlace your 3:2 footage to edit it in 24p and project it in 24p. So shoot 24p 2:3:3:2, edit in a 24p timeline by removing the fake frame (pull up) and when you're finished, you'll have the option to either keep it 24p for projection purposes or applying a 3:2 pull down for interlaced output such as TV.

December 2nd, 2004, 01:07 PM	#50
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	If you mean shooting 24fps, no the XL1 can't. It can only shoot in normal mode, and frame mode. The lather is 30 fps per second, or if you live in PAL land where I live, 25fps per second. Although you have a slight resolution loss, although that ain't much.

December 2nd, 2004, 01:32 PM	#52
Matthew Cherry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stamford, CT United States Posts: 212	See was that so hard? THANKS DAVID!!! Michael, There are huge debates regarding the DVX and XL2 when it comes to "film look". If you would prefer to grab the highest resolution standard DV image you can in native 16:9 and tweak the color in post, the XL2 is the ticket. If you would rather have the look that the DVX produces in Camera without doing much in post, get the DVX. Both are wonderful cameras. Even though I bought the XL2 I am VERY impressed with the DVX. Matt

December 2nd, 2004, 01:38 PM	#53
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Michael, Matthew is right. And I won't go in a too long debate about wich camera, because if you look in the XL2 forum or just perform a search here you will find a lot discussions about which one to choose and I'll think you'll find a lot more info there than I can give you. In short: many people like the dvx100a cinema settings... a lot! The XL2 has also such a thing but there are still many people who still prefer the DVX. The XL2 is sharper, has real 16:9 and has an interchangible lens system. If that matters to you (your options are a lot bigger, but it costs a lot, those options) then go for the XL2. Price thag is a big difference. I think the DVX has a price thag from around the 3500 dollars, the XL2 5000, of 4500 I don't just know. But there are many many differences, please do a search, I think you'll be happy to find all that information there. But, as Chris (Hurd) here almost always says: pick up both in the shop and try and look what you like the most. Good luck! BTW: the XL2 still has the frame mode to, but with full resolution. Although I don't think many people will still use that if they have 24p.

December 2nd, 2004, 06:12 PM	#54
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	To add to what I wrote above, you have to make sure before shooting 2:3:3:2 that your editing software will in fact recognize the footage as 24p with a pull down so that it can automatically remove the fake frame for 24p editing. I know Premiere Pro 1.5 and Vegas do it, but I do not know about FCP. Something to check out before doing the shooting. You wouldn't want to be stuck with 2:3:3:2 footage with nothing to edit it on (in the way it was intended to). At the very worst, you can buy the DVFilm Maker software, which costs $150 and is designed to remove the fake frame and make a true 24p Quick Time sequence you can then edit in your NLE software for 24p footage shot with the 2:3:3:2 mode on either the DVX-100 or the XL2.

December 3rd, 2004, 03:47 PM	#56
Matthew Cherry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stamford, CT United States Posts: 212	Lowel DV Creator 55 Light Kit

December 4th, 2004, 02:04 AM	#57
Frank Aalbers Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakland,CA Posts: 135	<<<-- Originally posted by David Lach : To add to what I wrote above, you have to make sure before shooting 2:3:3:2 that your editing software will in fact recognize the footage as 24p with a pull down so that it can automatically remove the fake frame for 24p editing. I know Premiere Pro 1.5 and Vegas do it, but I do not know about FCP. Something to check out before doing the shooting. You wouldn't want to be stuck with 2:3:3:2 footage with nothing to edit it on (in the way it was intended to). At the very worst, you can buy the DVFilm Maker software, which costs $150 and is designed to remove the fake frame and make a true 24p Quick Time sequence you can then edit in your NLE software for 24p footage shot with the 2:3:3:2 mode on either the DVX-100 or the XL2. -->>> Once you turn 2:3:3:2 footage to 24p , what do you sabve it in ? Since DV codec (good quality) can't handle 24p. What is a good quality codec to keep the 24p footage in for editing ? Thanks ! Frank

December 4th, 2004, 01:00 PM	#60
Frank Aalbers Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakland,CA Posts: 135	Re: Re: Nice work Mathew <<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pennington : I do have a question though, if you shoot in 24p 2:3:3:2 for projection, what if you want to take that same footage and export to DVD? Would you loose anything? -->>> No, since DVD's can be 24p as well. So you load the 2:3:3:2 footage in your 24p project in the NLE and then output a 24p MPEG2 file and author it in 24p. -->>> When you create a 24p mpeg and author it to DVD. Will the resulting DVD file be 3:2 pulled down data , or will the DVD player do that ? Thanks !

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