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October 26th, 2005, 09:29 PM | #1 |
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XL2 vs PD170
After reading through much of this board (which was incredibly helpful) I'm finally ready to buy my own camera. I'll need it quite soon for a couple of mini documentary projects over the Christmas period.
The problem is I still can't decide between the Canon XL2 and the Sony PD170...I've been peering at the specs for each camera exhaustively, but nothing compares to in the field experience. So...is the XL2 as fantastic as it's made out to be? How does the PD170 compare in the field? I thought I'd decided on the XL2, but I've heard some negative things about the sound - namely that it has no xlr line connection. I'm very, very attracted to the 25p option on the XL2, but if my sound recordist can't connect her mixer then maybe it isn't worth it? I really don't like the idea of having to regulate the levels entirely via the camera. (Audio really isn't my area of expertise though so I could be way off the mark). I should probably clarify what I'll be using it for: * Documentaries (this is my immediate concern) * Short films (one planned for early next year)..definitely would like that 'film' feel for this one (again, a plus for the XL2). * Recording interviews - sound quality needs to be comparable to v/o narration, as the subjects will be telling their own stories and used more often as voice over than as interviews. I realise I probably won't get BBC newsreader quality sound in somebody's kitchen...but I can hope right? While I'm not very experienced working with sound, I strongly believe that the most beautiful films have a really warm, rich soundscape and it isn't something I'm willing to compromise on. Well, inasmuch as my budget will allow... Any advice from XL2 and PD170 users would be greatly appreciated! |
October 26th, 2005, 10:10 PM | #2 |
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Well, having posted this on the XL2 board you're bound to get biased opinions ;), but yes the XL2 does have XLR inputs with phantom power -- 2 standard, or (I think) 4 with the ma-300 audio shoe, all with manual gain control available for each channel.
I love the XL2, but it did take a while to get used to the settings to make the camera really shine. While so many people will deny it or not even try with DV, this camera does create a really nice film look if used just right. EDIT: I saw a great thread with all sorts of professional XL2 footage a while back that I'm trying to find... to be honest, it was some of the footage from that thread that made me "go for it".
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October 26th, 2005, 10:30 PM | #3 |
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I as well have been reading this site and many others daily in search of a camera. From HDV, to SD DV, to Film, etc... and have come to this conclusion:
One camera is not for everybody, and one medium is not for everbody. My demand is I want to make films, I want to make them with plenty of time to be creative on the set, and I want to make them honest. With that, I have recently choosen SD DV, and the Canon XL2 for that. I love the way SD DV looks when it is treated to make it look like film. HDV is too expensive for me right now (and in my opinion too new) to get into, and honestly, I'm telling a stories that will not require such a high resolution. With the Canon on the set and a small crew, I can shoot slow, not have to worry about renting costs and how much media I would be using (as I would have to with film), it buys me time to learn as I mess around. DV I believe has connections to VHS & HI-8 formats, which I have a personal liking to the honesty of the way the video looks. Always write whatever you are making for the medium, some stories are better told on film, some on HDV, etc... think about the production you want to do, the costs... and use these limitations and challages to work with and be creativity will spawn from those lacking tools. To me, its the process that matters, not the end product. If you want a suggestion, I believe the CANON XL2 fits film better (see "28 Days Later"), but I have seen great docs with it too (see "Spellbound"). I have seen good movies on the PD-170 as well (see "Manic")... you might want to check out "Tarnation" (a doc) which uses good amount of Super-8 mixed with HI-8 & VHS media. It all depends on what you do with the product afterwards, and how skilled you are at doing it, or charasmatic you are to get someone who you know who could to do it. |
October 27th, 2005, 12:09 AM | #4 | |||
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As I said, I'm quite new to the audio side of things (well, reasonably new to all of it really...only started producing mini docos and short films about 18 months ago and only recently have gotten 'serious'). Since you're a user (that sounds sordid somehow lol)...how do you usually approach the audio side of things? Is it just a matter of plugging in a decent uni-directional mike and away you go? Quote:
I guess what I want to know is, if I buy the XL2, am I going for a camera that will (if used correctly) produce fantastic images but isn't ideal for sound, instead of a camera that produces average-to-above-average images AND sound. |
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October 27th, 2005, 12:13 AM | #5 | |
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The reason I'm so tempted by the XL is that I haven't committed myself to one format yet. With my journalism background, I quite enjoy the whole doco process, but ultimately I am being drawn to the creativity of cinema and even series television (though more as a writer or, eventual, director) The XL2 seems to be the most flexible camera out there within (but only just) my price range. |
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October 27th, 2005, 12:46 AM | #6 |
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My real suggestion is that you HAVE to start somewhere. Since you are not sure on your specific calling of what you want to make, I say go with SD DV and choose between the limitations & pros of the Canon XL2 and the PD-170. Flexibility is something I know you seem to want... one of the major flexible things about these cameras is the portability, the ability to shoot a lot of footage on low cost with a pretty damn good picture with a lot of pre and post work. Another good thing, the cost.
Be prepared to buy more than just a camera. |
October 27th, 2005, 01:11 AM | #7 |
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Susann,
One factor that hasn't been mentioned is the screen ratio that you'd prefer to shoot in. If you want to shoot widescreen (16:9) then it has to be the XL2, since it is designed to handle that format with it's CCD's. The Sony will only give you a "false" cropped and stretched version - you'll be losing resolution in fact. Just a thought... Robin |
October 27th, 2005, 08:13 AM | #8 | ||
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It's just a matter of deciding which of those two is right for me I guess (too bad I can't trial them both for a few months ;) I've used a PD150 before though and quite liked it, but my experience with it was very short. Quote:
But in the long run I'm pretty sure I'll wind up getting manual focus lens and perhaps even a different viewfinder if focusing proves difficult, as I've heard some people complain. |
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October 27th, 2005, 08:17 AM | #9 | |
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16:9 is definitely my preference and if left to my own devices, I'd shoot everything widescreen. However, one of my projects is for a competition (Australian Story) and I'm not entirely sure whether they might want it in 4:3...will have to find out. I know the XL2 isn't ideal for 4:3 but I doubt I'd be using that aspect ratio all that often. So looks like I might be getting the XL2 then :D |
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October 27th, 2005, 08:45 AM | #10 |
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if you're shooting a film, you'll be wanting a separate viewfinder or a monitor. for field work, the viewfinder is adequate, not great. it is my biggest--only--complaint about this camera.
for quality, the XL2 is far and away the better camera, but a good operator can get better images out of the PD-170 than a mediocre operator can get out of the XL2. XL2 has a longer learning curve and will take more time to make friends with, but if you're prepared to do a lot of testing and practice (which i highly recommend before shooting anything to print), then the payoff on this camera is tremendous. it is an amazing instrument. every minute that i spend working with this camera, i learn something new about how to use it, so my first footage is so different from my last. |
October 27th, 2005, 08:52 AM | #11 |
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Here's another question for you all...
where did you purchase your XL2? The cheapest price I've been able to find is on ebay (from an Australian powerseller...a business I believe). Comes with a 12 month warranty for technical faults. Never had any problems with Ebay before but part of me balks at such a large purchase. There are only two stores in my city that sell the XL2 though (and I think they have to get it shipped), and I would be saving about $1000, which is fairly significant. Also...is there much of a tendency for them to need servicing within the first 12-24 months? |
October 27th, 2005, 08:57 AM | #12 | ||
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I have no problems spending a lot of time with the camera, although I'll need to learn pretty quickly to get decent shots out of it by early November. Luckily the November project is 'less important' and since it will be mostly viewed on the web I can probably get away with using it as a learning curve. I don't need fantastic, cinematic images for it, just well exposed, clean shots. For the one after that though I'll have to up the ante ;) |
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October 27th, 2005, 09:06 AM | #13 | |
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October 27th, 2005, 09:17 AM | #14 | |
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Must say I'm liking the forum....so much knowledge floating around that I'm sure some of it must rub off eventually. |
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October 27th, 2005, 09:29 AM | #15 | |
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