I did it! at DVinfo.net

Bob Safay · August 18th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Well, I did it. I called B&H this morning and ordered the Canon XL-2. It should be here early next week. I cannot wait. Bob

Mike Teutsch · August 18th, 2006, 12:49 PM

Bob,

Way to go Bob! You will love it.

Mike

Jarrod Whaley · August 18th, 2006, 01:42 PM

Here, have a cigar. :)

Mark Bournes · August 18th, 2006, 01:56 PM

I'm close to doing the same thing. Did you get just the XL2 body or the complete package? Also what was the cost?

Nick Weeks · August 18th, 2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

Here, have a cigar. :)

I'll have one with you guys...

I'm about to get the XL2 body kit to use with my 16x Manual Lens. It's going to be less than $3,000 from B&H shipped

Zack Vohaska · August 18th, 2006, 02:30 PM

Ok,

I don't want to hijack this thread, but Nick, I've been recommended many times to get the 16x servo zoom and ditch the 20x stock lens, and I'm curious as to your reasoning for only getting the body. Is it because you already have the 16x servo and want to save money, or is because the servo lens produces a better image?

I've heard it said that the 16x manual servo has better glass, that it produces a 'prettier' image, etc., but I haven't seen it proven (nor do I think I've ever seen stills or footage with the lens). I'm aware that one advantage is that there are actual markings on the barrel to get precise results as opposed to the infinite-spinning zoom+focus on the 20x lens, but as far as image quality, does it make so much of a difference that it's worth spending $1500+ on?

Nick Weeks · August 18th, 2006, 03:11 PM

My main reason for only getting the body was because I already has the 16x manual server, have no use for the 20x, and yes, to save money. THe money I saved is going towards a matte box and some filters.

I strictly got the 16x manual servo lens becuase my 16x auto lens that came with my XL1s had a terrible backfocus problem, plus I wanted the real feel of the manual focus, so for my first wedding job I sold my auto lens and got the 16x manual servo.

I didn't compare the two lenses, and I honestly don't know for sure if the manual servo produces a better picture. I can say though, on the 16x manual servo, I can keep a 1.6 aperature even at full zoom, but on the other one it would ramp up to 2.something.

I can also say it was worth every penny. The zoom ring (not in servo mode) is excellent, especially for checking focus, and the true manual focus is very nice. The 2 built-in ND filters are not really an issue if you have the 20x that came with the XL2, but it was an improvement over the 16x auto with only 1 ND filter. It also has a good macro mode, and a backfocus adjustment.

The only caveat is the lack of optical stabilization... so you'll need to shoot full wide if handheld to get a good shot or use a tripod. And every little movement will shake that guy everywhere. I used the MA-200 with the CH-910 dual charger, and the Sennheiser wireless receiver mounted on the back, so it was almost 50/50 balanced and more shoulder mounted. Also, as with all the "cheap" lenses, there's a fair amount of chromatic aberrations when at full zoom using a 1.6 aperature, and you also get a good amount of "breathing" when focusing with a large aperature. If you can live with those little problems, it's well worth the upgrade.

Of course, I have not used the 20x lens enough, so I can't compare with that.... my comparisons are with the 16x IS II auto lens that comes with the XL1s.

On another note, I can send you some footage I shot with the lens on the XL1s if you want to see. Some handheld, some tripod, mostly all at 1.6 aperature. Just send me an email and I'll try to get those later on.

Mike Teutsch · August 18th, 2006, 03:22 PM

I can understand the reasoning behind getting the body only, but not the logic.

It costs only $700 more for the full kit w/lens, and the lens sells for $1,600 on it's own. So what happens when you go to sell this camera? Also, don't put so too weight on all of those who say the lens is no good. Remember they, some, just want to show how great they are with a manual lens. Try running and gunning with that 16x. For all of its weaknesses, the 20x auto does have many good points too! I have both lenses and would not give up either.

Just a thought, before you buy!

Mike

Greg Boston · August 18th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

I can understand the reasoning behind getting the body only, but not the logic.

It costs only $700 more for the full kit w/lens, and the lens sells for $1,600 on it's own. So what happens when you go to sell this camera? Also, don't put so too weight on all of those who say the lens is no good. Remember they, some, just want to show how great they are with a manual lens. Try running and gunning with that 16x. For all of its weaknesses, the 20x auto does have many good points too! I have both lenses and would not give up either.

Just a thought, before you buy!

Mike

I agree. It's best to have both lenses at your disposal so you can cover more situations. That 20X can really pull in some far away stuff for you.

-gb-

Jarrod Whaley · August 18th, 2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

That 20X can really pull in some far away stuff for you.

...or get you really close to tiny things. I shot a bunch of footage of caterpillars, cocoons, bugs, etc. with the 20x the other day. I was able to get right on top of the little guys without planting my camera directly in the bushes. Would have been a lot harder with a shorter lens.

Really nicely shallow DOF on those shots, by the way--which is to be expected at full tele, of course, but the 20x gets you more tele to work with and thus less DOF in some situations, if that's your thing.

The point of all this being that the 20x does have its advantages.

Greg Boston · August 18th, 2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

...or get you really close to tiny things. I shot a bunch of footage of caterpillars, cocoons, bugs, etc. with the 20x the other day. I was able to get right on top of the little guys without planting my camera directly in the bushes. Would have been a lot harder with a shorter lens.

Really nicely shallow DOF on those shots, by the way--which is to be expected at full tele, of course, but the 20x gets you more tele to work with and thus less DOF in some situations, if that's your thing.

The point of all this being that the 20x does have its advantages.

I did some stuff like that also. Most folks don't realize that the 20X has a macro range at the full wide zoom setting. You can also remove the lens hood and get really close. It's a great lens and I think most would be well served having it in their arsenal.

-gb-

Nick Weeks · August 18th, 2006, 04:56 PM

Well, I may have to re-consider! I didn't really even look at the cost difference, but at only $700 what's to lose? At the very least, I guess you could turn around and sell the lens for $1200 and make $500! :)

Bob Safay · August 20th, 2006, 08:59 AM

I ordered the stock kit with 20x lens. I already have the 3x from my XL-1s. Also, you should try a 1x, 2x, or 4x diopter on your lens for some awesome close ups. Go to under water over land and see my clip of the mantis laying eggs. Bob

Gary Barr · August 22nd, 2006, 02:58 AM

Nick, I see you do weddings. I've done weddings with the 20x and for handheld, shallow dof it's brilliant, the best I've used for this...the OIS is invaluable to me for this as it just floats very nicely even at full zoom, gives a kind of filmed doc feel which I like a lot.

Nick Weeks · August 22nd, 2006, 06:13 AM

Well, now I'm torn between the 20x auto and 16x manual!

I've used the 16x auto that came with the XL1s for months, using auto focus, worked great. When I started getting into the more manual controls of the camera, I used manual focus, which wasn't a problem until I would zoom out... my 16x auto had a terrible backfocus problem. Since this was a few months ago, and the XL1s long out of production, I figured my best bet would be to get the 16x manual servo lens.

Well, I used it for about 6 months, non stop. I liked it so much I just ditched my 16x auto (sold it) and have used the manual. Now that I've sold my XL1s with no lens, I kept the 16x manual servo lens, that's why I planned on buying the XL2 body kit... I was just going to use my 16x manual servo lens, no problems. Now everyone is saying just get the 20x lens with it, you'll be glad you have it!

I jsut simply have a feeling I won't ever use it. I like the feel and control of the 16x manual lens so much, I have a feeling I would hate using the 20x. Now, I know it has some features such as auto focus and the OIS that are invaluable in certian situations (like shooting weddings for example), but with my 16x auto compared the the 16x manual, I always liked how my pictures turned out better on the manual lens. They just seemed more "real" compared to the 16x auto even without the OIS... sure they were shaky, but slowed down in post it was fine (or if I used a tripod), but I've never used the 20x so......

I jsut have a feeling I'd be better off buying the body kit, no lens, and use the 16x manual lens... then eventually down the road get the 3x wide angle lens. I think I would be able to more effectively use the 3x wide lens as opposed to the 20x auto. Do you guys think this would be a good move, or would I be better off just having the 20x lens? I had a hard time selling my 16x auto lens, and I feel like I'll have the same trouble selling the 20x auto if I decide I don't want it.

August 18th, 2006, 10:27 AM	#1
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,557	I did it! Well, I did it. I called B&H this morning and ordered the Canon XL-2. It should be here early next week. I cannot wait. Bob

August 18th, 2006, 12:49 PM	#2
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Bob, Way to go Bob! You will love it. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

August 18th, 2006, 01:42 PM	#3
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	Here, have a cigar. :) __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

August 18th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#4
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	I'm close to doing the same thing. Did you get just the XL2 body or the complete package? Also what was the cost? __________________ Mark www.sharkvp.com

August 18th, 2006, 02:30 PM	#6
Zack Vohaska Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 74	Ok, I don't want to hijack this thread, but Nick, I've been recommended many times to get the 16x servo zoom and ditch the 20x stock lens, and I'm curious as to your reasoning for only getting the body. Is it because you already have the 16x servo and want to save money, or is because the servo lens produces a better image? I've heard it said that the 16x manual servo has better glass, that it produces a 'prettier' image, etc., but I haven't seen it proven (nor do I think I've ever seen stills or footage with the lens). I'm aware that one advantage is that there are actual markings on the barrel to get precise results as opposed to the infinite-spinning zoom+focus on the 20x lens, but as far as image quality, does it make so much of a difference that it's worth spending $1500+ on? __________________ -Z-

August 18th, 2006, 03:11 PM	#7
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	My main reason for only getting the body was because I already has the 16x manual server, have no use for the 20x, and yes, to save money. THe money I saved is going towards a matte box and some filters. I strictly got the 16x manual servo lens becuase my 16x auto lens that came with my XL1s had a terrible backfocus problem, plus I wanted the real feel of the manual focus, so for my first wedding job I sold my auto lens and got the 16x manual servo. I didn't compare the two lenses, and I honestly don't know for sure if the manual servo produces a better picture. I can say though, on the 16x manual servo, I can keep a 1.6 aperature even at full zoom, but on the other one it would ramp up to 2.something. I can also say it was worth every penny. The zoom ring (not in servo mode) is excellent, especially for checking focus, and the true manual focus is very nice. The 2 built-in ND filters are not really an issue if you have the 20x that came with the XL2, but it was an improvement over the 16x auto with only 1 ND filter. It also has a good macro mode, and a backfocus adjustment. The only caveat is the lack of optical stabilization... so you'll need to shoot full wide if handheld to get a good shot or use a tripod. And every little movement will shake that guy everywhere. I used the MA-200 with the CH-910 dual charger, and the Sennheiser wireless receiver mounted on the back, so it was almost 50/50 balanced and more shoulder mounted. Also, as with all the "cheap" lenses, there's a fair amount of chromatic aberrations when at full zoom using a 1.6 aperature, and you also get a good amount of "breathing" when focusing with a large aperature. If you can live with those little problems, it's well worth the upgrade. Of course, I have not used the 20x lens enough, so I can't compare with that.... my comparisons are with the 16x IS II auto lens that comes with the XL1s. On another note, I can send you some footage I shot with the lens on the XL1s if you want to see. Some handheld, some tripod, mostly all at 1.6 aperature. Just send me an email and I'll try to get those later on.

August 18th, 2006, 03:22 PM	#8
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	I can understand the reasoning behind getting the body only, but not the logic. It costs only $700 more for the full kit w/lens, and the lens sells for $1,600 on it's own. So what happens when you go to sell this camera? Also, don't put so too weight on all of those who say the lens is no good. Remember they, some, just want to show how great they are with a manual lens. Try running and gunning with that 16x. For all of its weaknesses, the 20x auto does have many good points too! I have both lenses and would not give up either. Just a thought, before you buy! Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

August 18th, 2006, 04:56 PM	#12
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	Well, I may have to re-consider! I didn't really even look at the cost difference, but at only $700 what's to lose? At the very least, I guess you could turn around and sell the lens for $1200 and make $500! :)

August 20th, 2006, 08:59 AM	#13
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,557	I ordered the stock kit with 20x lens. I already have the 3x from my XL-1s. Also, you should try a 1x, 2x, or 4x diopter on your lens for some awesome close ups. Go to under water over land and see my clip of the mantis laying eggs. Bob

August 22nd, 2006, 02:58 AM	#14
Gary Barr Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 186	Nick, I see you do weddings. I've done weddings with the 20x and for handheld, shallow dof it's brilliant, the best I've used for this...the OIS is invaluable to me for this as it just floats very nicely even at full zoom, gives a kind of filmed doc feel which I like a lot.

August 22nd, 2006, 06:13 AM	#15
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	Well, now I'm torn between the 20x auto and 16x manual! I've used the 16x auto that came with the XL1s for months, using auto focus, worked great. When I started getting into the more manual controls of the camera, I used manual focus, which wasn't a problem until I would zoom out... my 16x auto had a terrible backfocus problem. Since this was a few months ago, and the XL1s long out of production, I figured my best bet would be to get the 16x manual servo lens. Well, I used it for about 6 months, non stop. I liked it so much I just ditched my 16x auto (sold it) and have used the manual. Now that I've sold my XL1s with no lens, I kept the 16x manual servo lens, that's why I planned on buying the XL2 body kit... I was just going to use my 16x manual servo lens, no problems. Now everyone is saying just get the 20x lens with it, you'll be glad you have it! I jsut simply have a feeling I won't ever use it. I like the feel and control of the 16x manual lens so much, I have a feeling I would hate using the 20x. Now, I know it has some features such as auto focus and the OIS that are invaluable in certian situations (like shooting weddings for example), but with my 16x auto compared the the 16x manual, I always liked how my pictures turned out better on the manual lens. They just seemed more "real" compared to the 16x auto even without the OIS... sure they were shaky, but slowed down in post it was fine (or if I used a tripod), but I've never used the 20x so...... I jsut have a feeling I'd be better off buying the body kit, no lens, and use the 16x manual lens... then eventually down the road get the 3x wide angle lens. I think I would be able to more effectively use the 3x wide lens as opposed to the 20x auto. Do you guys think this would be a good move, or would I be better off just having the 20x lens? I had a hard time selling my 16x auto lens, and I feel like I'll have the same trouble selling the 20x auto if I decide I don't want it.