I don't agree here. The imaging-pipeline of a EOS-350D and a EOS-1DMkIIn are nearly identical, but the difference in price is significant! I think we live in an age, where digital imaging equipment is inherently of high quality. The days of noisy/low-sensitivity sensors and crummy lenses are over, and you pay a lot more for a few (but admittedly important) features as you climb up the ladder from consumer to professional gear. A sign of the times, I guess - but it makes high-quality gear accessible to almost everyone, and that's a good thing, IMO.

But back to decks: I decided to go the HDR-HC1-route. This way I have a backup-cam that's up to the task for event-videography. It works fine with 1080i50 and should also work with f25, although I have not tried yet. It also does in-camera HDV-to-DV down-conversion. Lots of bang for the buck, IMO. And if it's purely used as a deck, the HDR-HC3 is even less expensive.

FWIW,

Ron

When the xl-1 came out it was a pretty big deal with professionals who wanted beta type quality in a small package. Since then they have fallen behind the game a little I think.

If they do get some professional devices working with 24f it will be pretty big deal since sony couldn't make it work. They have a chance to prove themselves. I actually like the black look. The white looked pretty consumer to me, stands out too much.

IMHO, the camera looks like the mut's nuts. It's sleek black finish gives it that extra bit style, which seperates it from the XL1/XL2. It has some nice features like HD SDI, and is reasonably priced.

However, the lack of a deck which plays back 24/25f at the moment is a bit of a poor show. You can use the Wafrian recorder, but not everyone has that sort of cash, and it does make things a bit more tricky.

I've still to purchase my XL-H1, but will be doing so in the next 2-3 month no matter what. However, if there was also a deck available, I'm sure I'd find the cash quick smart.

i believe the goal now is to push you toward the firestore device." tape is dead," kinda like film was the last couple of years. its in all the papers ;)

Then I'm glad I got one of the last tape recorders..., the XL H1.

What is the alternative if you like to film in remote places, be able to travel reasonable light, have a rather safe and large storage for your footage and be able to capture many hours of high quality material during a journey?

TAPE is still the answer.

I don't think you'll get any argument from Craig on that one. His business is supplying filmmakers, and it's grown quite a bit ever since film was declared dead!

Film and tape will never be dead.

Film will still have it's place. Tape is still the best storage. Things may go optical one day but there is no way a hard drive will be the ideal backup or archive medium.

Plus the tapless workflow is still in it's infancy and I do not belive the big boys will be discarding tape or film any time soon. It's to pratical and reliable.

The tapeless workflow will just speed things up in certain areas of production.
Especially in post.

It's like when they said paper was dead. We still use it, just less and more efficiently.

After suffering another FS4 failure last night (on my FX1), I'm really greatfull for tape.
Bruce Yarock

XK H1 Deck or HDV Camera Suggestions
 

Hi,
We are looking to upgrade from teh Canon XL1s to the Canon XL H1 cameras. I'm not too proficient with the camera terminology, but will certainly do my best explaining what we are attempting to do. (I may muck up some of the terms here...)

We are looking to purchase 3 Canon XL H1 cameras and shoot in a mode that looks similar to the Frame Mode option on the Canon XL1s. (We don't really need to shoot in 1048i.) We chose the XL H1 because we need to synch the cameras together using its Genlock capabilities and we like the reasonable size.

However, we've found that there isn't a deck compatible with the XL H1 natively and we haven't had any luck finding any other HDV camera that has Genlock capabilities.

So, my question is, do you all have any suggestions for a better HDV camera with Gen lock capabilities that will not give us so many deck compatability issues? Or better yet, do you know of a recommended deck to use to capture XL H1 footage?

Thanks.

Recommended deck: The new Firestore's that retain HDV timecode.

Instead of spending money on an HDV deck, shoot straight to hard disk and use the tapes merely as a safety backup. You could possibly outfit all 3 cameras with hard disk units for a little more than the price of the Sony HDV deck.

As far as I know there are no dedicated VTR's that are compatible with the XLH1's 24F mode. This is a real problem if you plan to shoot with this mode.

Why worry about a deck at all when you could just plug in your hard drives and edit?

Another thing to consider: HDV doesn't work exactly like DV. There's no scrubbing/monitoring the timeline through firewire. This means you need an HD card like the Kona, Blackmagic Extreme or Xena to have full-time HD monitoring. I have the Kona and it works well.

Just download m2t's rather than capture from tape. You can capture from an H1 if you have to recapture from tape later on.

Here's your $1300 playback deck for 24F/ 30F Frame mode
 

See http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv10overview.php

Also supports four-channel audio playback.

That looks great Chris! Any info on when it will be available? This could potentially be a good "B" camera for events too, where you would likely be shooting in 60i anyway. Any links to this on Canon's site or anything?

Oops, I left that part out... ships in September.

More info in our new Canon HV10 forum. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=139

One cool feature that this has is the ability to convert your HD footage on the fly to letterboxed SD for viewing on a non HD TV. I personally find this a big plus because I often shoot out on the field and the only equipment to view the quick takes on ar 4x3 SD tvs.

JUst thought I'd point this out.

Chris, you may have left out one thing from the potential H1 wish list at the end of the article (see below), true 24P (especially as Canon are signing up to it.)

While I'm dreaming, 422 recording to tape and Dual SDI out for those times when you want true 444 capture.

I have other dreams too but best not mentioned here ;^)


"Imagine a possible application of this CMOS sensor in the near future. What if Canon were to produce a successor to their flagship XL H1 with three of these CMOS chips at its core? Give it embedded audio and Time Code with uncompressed High Definition video in its SDI output jack, an XL-mount lens equipped with Instant AF, and custom function and display settings, and you'd have quite an HDV camcorder."

Wait a minute? This thing doesn't have a professional jack pack? What a rip-off!!!!


:)

Well, wont make much of a Deck without a Component or HDMI out... How am I supposed to use my HD monitor :O

;)

Seriously....this thing has to have component out on it....right? At this price point enthusiasts with HDTV's are going to buy these and want to play it right on there HDTV from the camera. Canon has to have included this...even though I can't actually find documentation of it.......

Component out... see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....74&postcount=2

Chris,

So the HV10 cannot record frame mode but will playback24F/ 30F Frame mode? It seems the only reason for this then is so Canon customers that have purchased the H1 and XH will have an inexpensive playback deck. Canon is taking care of us after all.

This is NOW AVAILABLE!!! Everyone feel that this would make a good playback deck?

All opinions welcome...

I just bought an XLH1 and this will be a great compliment to that.

Thanks guys.

Funny, that. I've just decided the XL H1 will go nicely with my HV10E. :)

B&H has it for $1099. Pretty good price for a HDV deck that can also shoot "B" roll.

Is there any advantage of having a CMOS chip vs. a CCD chip?

Cheers,
D

Anyone using the HV10 as a deck?
 

My Sony deck died this morning - sending it off for repairs, but thought I'd run down to Circuit City and get an HV10 as a backup - and to allow 24f playback as well...

But I though I better get some feedback first.. From reading the specs I'm guessing that it doesn't support timecode... As a result Log & Capture in FCP is not possible? requiring Capture Now only?

Is anyone here using one?

I'm curious about this too.

Me too... One of us may have to be first.

I am using the HV10 as a deck. It works quite well.

I logged and captured on my Intel iMac in FCP5.1.2. It sometimes hiccuped on the timecode, but from what I have read, HDV is like that.

Capture now works fine as well.

sony z1 hdv seemless
 

never had sony hdv hiccup, see post "edius batchind error"

I probably should have been clearer on 'hiccup'.

If I logged something in FCP that was only a few frames apart from another log entry, I had difficulties with this twice. I easily fixed this by keeping a second or more between logged entries.

I have read that it has something to do with the HDV codec. Easy work around and not really an issue for me.

Cody: It's good to hear that that little thing actually works... I've had $4000 decks in the past that didn't work well with TC...

i've found it works fine capturing tapes shot with an FX-1. i believe it was intentionally designed to be used as a capture device for 24F modes on the H1/A1/G1, so it is actually marketed by canon as a substitute for a deck. so it had better work!

Anyone having any issues with 24F once editing? Are most of you using Cineform or standard FCP support. Anyone using premiere pro 2.0? How are you guys displaying your 24F files? Can't go back to tape, so can you nest it within a 60i timeline for tape distriubtion?

Best Deck for XL H1
 

I am looking for a deck to take the wear and tear off my XLH1 when capturing its HDV footage. Is it correct that decks like the Sony HVR-M15 HDV Recorder
will only play interlaced HDV footage and not footage recorded in frame mode. If so are there any decks that will play Canon's frame mode?

I am looking for the least expensive deck that will do the job

Canon doesn't make decks. Although standard 60i HDV will work in any HDV deck, none of the frame modes will. Your best bet as an inexpensive deck that can read the F modes is the Canon HV10, which you can find now for around $600.

John,

Michael is perfectly right, no decks for the Canon XLH1, or the other Canon HD cameras, because of the 30f and 24f modes. This is the main reason I bought the Canon HV20, to use it as a deck.

But, it doubles as a great B-cam too and is great to take with you everywhere you go! The picture is gorgeous too!

Mike

Does the HV-30 work the same as the HV-10/HV-20? In other words, can I use it as a playback deck for my Canon XL-H1?

Of course. You would have already read about it here if there had been some kind of change. However there is no difference between the HV10, HV20 and HV30 in this regard. All will play back Canon Frame mode video shot on an XL or XH camera. See the first post in this thread.

Thanks Chris.

I did not read the first post. I read the last few pages of this thread and I saw no mention of the HV-30, only the HV-20. Not that I expected any changes, but I wanted to be sure. Anyway, thanks again.