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-   -   Here's your $900 playback deck 24F/ 30F Frame mode (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-h-series-hdv-camcorders/72806-heres-your-900-playback-deck-24f-30f-frame-mode.html)

Bill Taka February 6th, 2006 12:37 AM

Here's your $900 playback deck 24F/ 30F Frame mode
 
I have been trying different options other than using my XL H1 for capturing to FCP. So far I don't like the Firestore for many reasons and I prefer not to use the XL H1 as a deck. Has anyone used the Sony HC1 as a deck from XL H1 recorded tapes? Are these 2 compatible for playback via firewire into FCP5.

Note from Admin:

The answer here is either the Canon HV10, HV20, HV30 or HV40 consumer HDV
camcorder. But feel free to continue reading this entire thread if you really want to!

Barry Green February 6th, 2006 02:42 AM

For 60i, yes.

For 24F and 30F, no.

Ronan Fournier February 6th, 2006 02:54 AM

Maybe you should wait few weeks for the Sony HC3, wich should be smaller and cheaper than the HC1, rumors said...

Bill Taka February 6th, 2006 05:12 PM

Thanks Barry. Ronan that's exactly what i'll do. Kind of ironic that I purchased Canon's latest state of the art only to have to buy a Sony camera so I don't wear the head on my Canon!

Barry Gregg February 11th, 2006 11:11 AM

XL H1 input to Dvc Pro 50 SD deck
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince Gaffney
i spent the day on a stage shooting product demos with the H1. we used the camera to feed a dvcpro 50 deck component and 4x3. i can tell you that the quality of the image was very close, almost indistinguishable to shooting with the sdx900. we had to match footage that was shot with the panasonic on the last batch of these commercials.

tommorrow we wil be shooting a ton of green screen in the same manner. H1 to dvcpro 50 deck component.

this camera handles SD beautifully in a controlled environment. again, i cannot over emphasize that the workflow options were the number one reason i bought it and i do not regret it for a second.

vince

Vince or anybody that knows. Specifically how did you do this? I was just wondering if this was possible. DvcPro 50 is the ultimate SD format and I wanted to record from the XL H1 to the AJ-D93 or AJ-D92 Panny decks. Did you output from the HD-SDI or other output and was it a 4.2.2 signal?
Thanks,
Barry Gregg

Vincent Rozenberg February 11th, 2006 11:16 AM

If you read his post you can see that he gives you the answer on your question already:

Quote:

we used the camera to feed a dvcpro 50 deck component and 4x3.
The SDI signal is indeed 4:2:2 by 8 bit, so if you got a DVCpro deck with SDI in, this is the option.

Vince Gaffney February 11th, 2006 11:42 AM

Barry,

Here is how we did it. Component out to sd93 component input. Audio either from the mixer to analog in the deck or through the camera to the deck. There was a bit of confusion on the best approach to this and we did encounter some sync issues. I believe that the TC from the camera to the deck with the audio and video from the camea to the deck is the proper set-up.

The comp. video output is 480 60i in SD mode regardless of the frame rate selected on the camera - same with the SDi output. As far as I know, the component out put is 4:2:2. I'll find out for sure when i go to build my composites.

Overall, the camera perfromed flawlessly. It was left on for about 16 hours over 2 days. We never recorded in camera. I had the Anton Bauer adapter and the power meter on an A/B brick indicated a full charge for the entire duration.

There is so much this camera can do that it is really astounding. I hope to discover 50% over the next few months.

vince

Michael Galvan February 21st, 2006 02:17 PM

Using XL-H1 as a deck for 24F
 
Hey guys,

I have an event shoot this coming week were I will have to shoot a couple hours in HDV 24F. Now I know I will have to use my H1 as a deck to import the footage into my G5 and convert it to DVCProHD for 23.98 editing. I never really used my cameras as a deck (I know this is bad) but I have no choice this time around.

Generally, how long is too long for using a camera as a deck? Or should I say, how fast do the heads wear and tear using it as a deck? I hate doing this, but I have no other way to import my footage.

My camera is brand new ... so I'd like to keep it as well kept as possible.

Kevin Wild February 21st, 2006 04:18 PM

Michael, while it's not a great idea for the long term, it certainly won't hurt doing it for a while. Afterall, anyone who is capturing 24F footage right now has no other option than to use the camera as a deck.

It won't hurt...but let's hope a new HDV deck is out soon.

KW

Daniel Epstein February 21st, 2006 06:29 PM

Michael,
You should try it out before using it for workflow reasons. Capture Now in Final Cut seems to work the best since the HDV timecode doesn't always get found if you log clips with handles.
As for the wear issue it is eventually going to show up as a repair. I just don't like trying to explain to clients that the more expensive camera is also a two day rental for each day of footage generated if the post house doesn't own one as well for playback.
Eventually the Hard drive solution might be the best thing for all concerned but HDV isn't quite as straight forward a path as DV was.

Brad Schreiber March 7th, 2006 09:43 PM

Play in a Sony Deck?
 
Hey guys, I want to do a short I'm shooting in Avid Mac Xpress Pro, if I were to shoot in 50i, which is a 30 frame format as I understand, would I be able to put the tape in a SOny DSR-1500A, and digitize it at DV 25? I know I lose resolution, but I'll just redig when Avid releases the updated software for HDV. I've used FCP in the past, and I prefer to cut on Avid. Thank you for the advice. Any other thoughts on shooting rez, or other ideas that you think would help would be appreciated.

Barry Green March 8th, 2006 02:21 AM

If you shoot DV, then you could play it back on that DV deck.

If you shoot HDV, no you can't play that back on a DV deck. The tape is the same physical tape, but the format is entirely different, and a DV deck will have no clue what to do with an HDV tape.

Vincent Rozenberg March 8th, 2006 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Schreiber
... if I were to shoot in 50i, which is a 30 frame format as I understand...

50i is a PAL 25 frame format. 60i a NTSC 30 frame.

Brad Schreiber March 9th, 2006 01:01 AM

Dub from XLH1 to Sony Deck
 
I had an idea for making offline editing dubs myself, thought I'd throw it out to the fellas here. Would it be possible to go out via firewire or SDI from the XLH1 to a Sony DSR-1500A, genlock it so the TC remains the same, and record to a DVCAM on the DSR-1500A? This may be lunacy, or it may be a sound premise, if anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it, and will try this in the near future.

Vincent Rozenberg March 9th, 2006 02:50 AM

I would do FireWire, It should work out for DV then.

Daniel Epstein March 9th, 2006 08:52 AM

If you use the SDI route you will need to figure out an audio path since they didn't embed the audio into the SDI. RCA outs from the camera. Not sure how accurate the timecode will be on the dubs from HDV, especially 30F and 24F.
If you go out firewire I am not sure if the camera downconverts HDV to DV like the Sony does. It does it on the SDI out so they might do it on the firewire as well. DV should be easy to make clones of.

Brad Schreiber March 9th, 2006 11:49 AM

Will try Firewire Then
 
Thanks guys, I'll let you all know how this experiment turns out.

Ronan Fournier April 5th, 2006 07:23 AM

Sony HC1 as a deck for the XL-H1 ?
 
I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to use the HC1 as a deck for the XL-H1 (50i footage only of course). This would be cheaper as a real deck and the HC1 may be useful for very sportive shooting (under water, helmet, etc.)

What do you think about this ?

Did someone already use the HC1 as a deck for some XL-H1's footage ?

Thank you !

Jonas Nystrom April 5th, 2006 02:57 PM

I don't think it's possible...
 
...and it works nice, but actually i do my capture from XL H1. HC1 is one lovely camera, but AE1 is even nicer. Or why don't wait for HC3...

Vincent Rozenberg April 6th, 2006 01:04 AM

I wonder if it works woth 50F footage as well. Since FCP handles it as 50i, I presume it does work.

Jonas Nystrom April 6th, 2006 02:53 AM

But it don't...
 
...HC1 can't handle 25f.

Jeff Morrissette April 13th, 2006 04:25 PM

h-1 deck
 
anyone heard of a h-1 deck yet?

I know the sony will play the 60i but what about the frame modes?

On that note does sony have a real hdv deck yet. The one I saw for the mini tapes only looks like a rip off for the price at this point.

Nice looking, just too much money for what it is. With no rs422 to boot.

Mathieu Ghekiere April 13th, 2006 05:09 PM

At this time, there is no deck for the xl-h1, so you have to use the camera to capture the frame modes.

Maybe at NAB we'll know more...

Daniel Epstein April 13th, 2006 05:48 PM

I had a funny phone call from Canon yesterday. My usual contact there asked someone else to call me back when I called in about the XLH1 No Free Run TC In 24F DV as well as not being able to manually focus the lens during zooming.. a week and a half later they called back.
I asked him when Canon was going to let anyone know what was coming down the Pike as far as a Manual HD Lens, a Deck to play HDV 30F and 24F, An HD viewfinder etc. He told me Canon doesn't preannounce product until it is close to delivery. He didn't give me any hints about what is coming.
He asked me to call Canon at the Lake Success office and register my requests.
So if any of you want something different about your XLH1 or have a gadget or feature request you can call them because they are not going to tell us about anything new until they are ready to release it.

Robert Sanders April 13th, 2006 07:03 PM

I'm calling my contact within Canon as well. Here's what I'm suggesting:

1. 20x MANUAL Lens
2. 3x MANUAL W/A Lens
3. H1 Deck with HD-SDI with integrated Video/Audio/TC

Jeff Morrissette April 13th, 2006 07:21 PM

I'm under the impression they cannot do a hd viewfinder because of gop. Anyone know if that is true? I don't think any hdv cameras have hd viewfinders.

Chris Hurd April 13th, 2006 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Epstein
He told me Canon doesn't preannounce product until it is close to delivery.

Long-term regular members of this site, that is, those folks who have been with me since the XL1 Watchdog days, know that this has always been Canon's standard operating procedure. I'm sorry that you're just now finding this out, but it is by all means nothing new; it's always been this way with Canon.

Kevin Wild April 13th, 2006 09:01 PM

Don't forget that SONY has already (pre) announced their new HDV deck. I'm unclear (as are most) about whether it will be supporting the Canon 24F mode, but it seems like a very nice deck. Let's hope it will support it...

Kevin

Jeff Morrissette April 14th, 2006 09:42 AM

Do you know where that link is? Will it have full tape size support and rs422?

Chris Hurd April 14th, 2006 09:59 AM

See http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/6491

Two decks, the M15 and M25.

K. Forman April 14th, 2006 10:13 AM

Any idea if either of these can be battery opperated like the M10?

Chris Hurd April 14th, 2006 11:22 AM

It's not in the press release, but I bet we'll find out in a few days at NAB.

K. Forman April 14th, 2006 11:27 AM

It would be much appreciated if you could ask while you are there. Not that it would be something I'd use regularly, it was a nice feature on the M10. Too bad it had a bunch of other issues.

Chris Hurd April 14th, 2006 12:10 PM

Oh, believe me, we'll check it out as thoroughly as we can and report about it here.

Jeff Morrissette April 14th, 2006 12:48 PM

Nice looking decks.

Luis de la Cerda April 24th, 2006 05:19 PM

NAB - Deck
 
Any decks campatible with 24f announced yet?

Kevin Wild April 24th, 2006 09:16 PM

To add to it, has anyone had a chance to check out the new SONY deck? Any news about if it's 24F compatible for the H1?

Thx.

Kevin

John Benton April 25th, 2006 07:19 AM

Though it doesn't answer this direct question...Evidently Apple has a 24f FCP ProtoType on display

along these lines
Any HD_SDI portable HDrives ?

Pete Bauer April 25th, 2006 11:55 AM

So far I haven't heard anything here at NAB about Canon F-mode compatible deck announcements. Will keep checking.

Rodney Compton May 5th, 2006 05:16 AM

Lens and Decks from Canon
 
Judging by the cost of the new XLH1 camera, I wonder if Canon will up the anti in terms of cost on the manual HD lenses they are almost bound to introduce soon. Does this then open the door to some judicial adaptation of existing lenses that they produce for other manufacturers, namely JVC and Sony.

Is it just my perception, but I can't take Canon seriously as a professional movie cam supplier, they always seem to be looking over their shoulder at their mass consumer market place. It seems that they don't plan a range of product just for the professional - take the XLH1 for example. It is obviously an adaptation, (however clever) of the existing XL series cameras which were pitched at the mass market of 'prosumers' (dreadful word), but now with a professional price tag. I would have been first in the que for the HDV camera if it had not been marketed with the 20x servo lens and a black paint job. I don't see the equivalent difference in their still camera marketplace, there you genuinely do get a lot more for your dough with Canon's professional products.

Rod C


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