we need more lenses at DVinfo.net

Robert Mann Z. · July 14th, 2003, 08:19 AM

i'm really suprised more companies haven't stepped up to the plate and created a line of lenses adapter free for the xl1...their is much room another few lenses that i can think of...

i guess it must be a business decsion? is the xl market to small, i can't see that being the truth. I know that at a specific price point many folks would pick up a manual 3x wide, or macro lens...even maybe a manual 200mm...

a lot of companies focus on adapters, however adapters (good ones anyway) are not one size fits all, so why not just spend the extra rd and get a lens out...

Vladimir Koifman · July 14th, 2003, 09:29 AM

Yes, I agree the market is too small. If only all videocam manufacturers could come with some standard lens attachment, it would turn on the lens market.
Not only the immediate market for such lenses would be bigger, but also lens manufacturers would know this is the standard to be around in future. Then they could expect an investment return in many coming years.

Nigel Moore · July 14th, 2003, 10:14 AM

It's not just the attachment though. As HD becomes more popular, the quality of the lens glass and control mechanisms will have to improve is my guess.

Jeff Donald · July 14th, 2003, 12:08 PM

Well, there are several standard sizes and it is Canon that choose to disregard the standards. I believe they did so in order to make the XL1 smaller, lighter, more energy efficient, etc. Canon is well aware of the standards because they and Fuji are the principal broadcast lens manufactures. Tamron also make some lenses for broadcast, as well as Nikon.

Robert Mann Z. · July 14th, 2003, 12:52 PM

jeff i understand about standards, but what about the xl1 standard, canon is not the only one to make a lens for this camera adapter free...

here is a picture with a fuji lens adpater free http://www.emptyloft.com/dvexpo03/pages/IMG_1146.htm

Don Palomaki · July 14th, 2003, 04:42 PM

The canon XL1 has a 1/3" CCD. About the only interchangeable lens camcorder on that size CCD. Limits the market for third party makers

Canon's (and other lens makers for that matter) business point of reference was with the L1/L2. Their VL was an industry standard lens mount for 1/2" CCD. Many makers signed on for that mount, but only Canon produce a camcorder or lenses (a series of about 5 lenses and two adapters ) that used the mount.

Probably not enough of a market in a camcorder at that price point. The XL lens mount has what, 4 lenses and two adapters from Canon.

Jeff Donald · July 14th, 2003, 05:54 PM

Robert, I believe that is the Fuji lens that was customized (mount changed from OEM) to fit the XL1 by OpTex. Fuji had nothing to do with the mount on that lens. It's success did, perhaps influence Canon to bring out the 14X manual lens the following year.

The easiest thing to do would be to make a 1/2 inch to 1/3 inch adapter. However, I don't know of too many people that are going to buy lenses that cost more than the camera (at least in the prosumer price range of under $5000).

Christopher Hughes · July 15th, 2003, 02:19 PM

I agree Jeff....its hard enough for XL1s buyers to understand the need for external mics, and then fork out the money to buy an XLR adapter and Ext Mic, never mind have the money to buy lots of new lenses, that cost thousands. If Canon were aiming at the type of people that buy the top lenses, then the XL1s would have been made a whole lot different. As well as being targeted at a whole different market.

Perhaps a new XL2 will suprise us, but I for one hope that the price doesnt get as big as the extra features added.

John Threat · July 17th, 2003, 11:29 AM

I just would like a professional wide angle lens.

Jacques Mersereau · July 17th, 2003, 01:05 PM

You can have it, but for a price that will well exceed the camera and
all the accessories put together ;)

The PS Technik adapter teamed with a Cooke or Zeiss prime will amaze you.

I, like most everyone here share your desire, yet I would wait for the
next generation of XL1 to see what Canon delivers. I'm hoping for
HD with the ability to use Canon EOS 35mm without magnification issues.

Willard Hill · August 2nd, 2003, 07:39 AM

It is true that it would be nice to use the EOS lenses without "magnification issues" in certain instances, but if a future Canon XL model gives us this, but does not have an adapter available with the high magnification like the current one does, then you are back in the handi-cam league for wildlife photography. The current one may be difficult to use in some instances, but it gives you images that are almost impossible to obtain otherwise. Why are we wishing this ability away?

Jacques Mersereau · August 2nd, 2003, 11:49 AM

A very SOUND argument Willard. You've caught me with my foot half in
my mouth here ;)

My partner and I are currently finishing
up production of our nature documentary, "An Osprey Homecoming."

http://www.ospreylovers.com

The doc. is about The Osprey Reintroduction Progam of Southern Michigan.

Yes, without the 7.2 magnification of our 100-400mm AND the 2X
extender, we wouldn't have acquired the images we have of these
magnificent birds of prey. I was just out getting some good stuff
an hour ago!

So, I guess there would be good and bad things about the next
generation of XL1 (HD I hope) working with 35mm lens "perfectly."
Part of "perfectly" may mean to pony up another $8,000 for the Canon
600mm EF IS. Still, that is CHEAP compared to what a real HD lens
costs.

Other use telescopes. Did you see CBS's Sunday Morning
when they did a story on "Pale Male" the red tail hawk who's built
a nest on one of the swankiest brown stones over looking Central Park in NY?
One guy (his hobby) had an incredible rig. GIANT motorized telescope
hooked to an XL1 with a big flat screen for display. COOL!

But, if that XL1HD dream were to ever come true, then you have to switch
around strategies . . . which means getting CLOSER. In the case of
our "prey", that would mean full camouflage and getting into position
well before dawn, as opposed to 1/2 hour before dawn.

I have had good results getting Loon footage (really skittish) using leaf
suits, but it isn't easy and you have to get lucky.

Then again, I guess it isn't easy even with a long lens!

Willard Hill · August 7th, 2003, 06:23 PM

Jacques
Thanks for sharing the Osprey website. I just found time to look at it and found it quite interesting. It reminds me of a similar situation with Bald Eagles in Pennsylvania at George B. Stevenson Dam near Sinnemahoning. A gentleman there has spent years documenting nesting eagles with a Canon L2 attached to a telescope by using an EOS T adapter. He has not made a commercial tape, but does sometimes send his friends VHS copies of some of his footage. If I recall correctly, he uses a Celestron Telescope.

July 14th, 2003, 08:19 AM	#1
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	we need more lenses i'm really suprised more companies haven't stepped up to the plate and created a line of lenses adapter free for the xl1...their is much room another few lenses that i can think of... i guess it must be a business decsion? is the xl market to small, i can't see that being the truth. I know that at a specific price point many folks would pick up a manual 3x wide, or macro lens...even maybe a manual 200mm... a lot of companies focus on adapters, however adapters (good ones anyway) are not one size fits all, so why not just spend the extra rd and get a lens out...

July 14th, 2003, 12:08 PM	#4
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Well, there are several standard sizes and it is Canon that choose to disregard the standards. I believe they did so in order to make the XL1 smaller, lighter, more energy efficient, etc. Canon is well aware of the standards because they and Fuji are the principal broadcast lens manufactures. Tamron also make some lenses for broadcast, as well as Nikon. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 14th, 2003, 04:42 PM	#6
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	The canon XL1 has a 1/3" CCD. About the only interchangeable lens camcorder on that size CCD. Limits the market for third party makers Canon's (and other lens makers for that matter) business point of reference was with the L1/L2. Their VL was an industry standard lens mount for 1/2" CCD. Many makers signed on for that mount, but only Canon produce a camcorder or lenses (a series of about 5 lenses and two adapters ) that used the mount. Probably not enough of a market in a camcorder at that price point. The XL lens mount has what, 4 lenses and two adapters from Canon. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

July 14th, 2003, 05:54 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Robert, I believe that is the Fuji lens that was customized (mount changed from OEM) to fit the XL1 by OpTex. Fuji had nothing to do with the mount on that lens. It's success did, perhaps influence Canon to bring out the 14X manual lens the following year. The easiest thing to do would be to make a 1/2 inch to 1/3 inch adapter. However, I don't know of too many people that are going to buy lenses that cost more than the camera (at least in the prosumer price range of under $5000). __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 17th, 2003, 01:05 PM	#10
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	You can have it, but for a price that will well exceed the camera and all the accessories put together ;) The PS Technik adapter teamed with a Cooke or Zeiss prime will amaze you. I, like most everyone here share your desire, yet I would wait for the next generation of XL1 to see what Canon delivers. I'm hoping for HD with the ability to use Canon EOS 35mm without magnification issues. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

July 14th, 2003, 09:29 AM	#2
Vladimir Koifman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Israel Posts: 115	Yes, I agree the market is too small. If only all videocam manufacturers could come with some standard lens attachment, it would turn on the lens market. Not only the immediate market for such lenses would be bigger, but also lens manufacturers would know this is the standard to be around in future. Then they could expect an investment return in many coming years.

July 14th, 2003, 10:14 AM	#3
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	It's not just the attachment though. As HD becomes more popular, the quality of the lens glass and control mechanisms will have to improve is my guess.

July 14th, 2003, 12:52 PM	#5
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	jeff i understand about standards, but what about the xl1 standard, canon is not the only one to make a lens for this camera adapter free... here is a picture with a fuji lens adpater free http://www.emptyloft.com/dvexpo03/pages/IMG_1146.htm

July 15th, 2003, 02:19 PM	#8
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	I agree Jeff....its hard enough for XL1s buyers to understand the need for external mics, and then fork out the money to buy an XLR adapter and Ext Mic, never mind have the money to buy lots of new lenses, that cost thousands. If Canon were aiming at the type of people that buy the top lenses, then the XL1s would have been made a whole lot different. As well as being targeted at a whole different market. Perhaps a new XL2 will suprise us, but I for one hope that the price doesnt get as big as the extra features added.

July 17th, 2003, 11:29 AM	#9
John Threat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York Posts: 322	I just would like a professional wide angle lens.

August 2nd, 2003, 07:39 AM	#11
Willard Hill Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 191	It is true that it would be nice to use the EOS lenses without "magnification issues" in certain instances, but if a future Canon XL model gives us this, but does not have an adapter available with the high magnification like the current one does, then you are back in the handi-cam league for wildlife photography. The current one may be difficult to use in some instances, but it gives you images that are almost impossible to obtain otherwise. Why are we wishing this ability away? __________________ Willard http://pawildlifephotographer.blogspot.com/

August 2nd, 2003, 11:49 AM	#12
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	A very SOUND argument Willard. You've caught me with my foot half in my mouth here ;) My partner and I are currently finishing up production of our nature documentary, "An Osprey Homecoming." http://www.ospreylovers.com The doc. is about The Osprey Reintroduction Progam of Southern Michigan. Yes, without the 7.2 magnification of our 100-400mm AND the 2X extender, we wouldn't have acquired the images we have of these magnificent birds of prey. I was just out getting some good stuff an hour ago! So, I guess there would be good and bad things about the next generation of XL1 (HD I hope) working with 35mm lens "perfectly." Part of "perfectly" may mean to pony up another $8,000 for the Canon 600mm EF IS. Still, that is CHEAP compared to what a real HD lens costs. Other use telescopes. Did you see CBS's Sunday Morning when they did a story on "Pale Male" the red tail hawk who's built a nest on one of the swankiest brown stones over looking Central Park in NY? One guy (his hobby) had an incredible rig. GIANT motorized telescope hooked to an XL1 with a big flat screen for display. COOL! But, if that XL1HD dream were to ever come true, then you have to switch around strategies . . . which means getting CLOSER. In the case of our "prey", that would mean full camouflage and getting into position well before dawn, as opposed to 1/2 hour before dawn. I have had good results getting Loon footage (really skittish) using leaf suits, but it isn't easy and you have to get lucky. Then again, I guess it isn't easy even with a long lens! __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

August 7th, 2003, 06:23 PM	#13
Willard Hill Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 191	Jacques Thanks for sharing the Osprey website. I just found time to look at it and found it quite interesting. It reminds me of a similar situation with Bald Eagles in Pennsylvania at George B. Stevenson Dam near Sinnemahoning. A gentleman there has spent years documenting nesting eagles with a Canon L2 attached to a telescope by using an EOS T adapter. He has not made a commercial tape, but does sometimes send his friends VHS copies of some of his footage. If I recall correctly, he uses a Celestron Telescope. __________________ Willard http://pawildlifephotographer.blogspot.com/