Church Lady Needs Help w/ XL1S

[Chris Soucy]

Well, sure don't sound like a lighting thing either.

I think that I'll wait for the next exciting episode tomorrow before making any further suggestions (not that I actually have any at the moment).

Catch you then.


A somewhat baffled,


CS

[Lorinda Norton]

Hi J.L.,

I really don’t want to deny Chris the chance of solving a great mystery here, but...

As a former XL1s user I’d say you’re on the right track mothballing them in favor of HD cameras. Even without the problems you’re experiencing the XL1s just isn’t as crisp as others in less than ideal lighting. When I shot 2nd camera with a GL2 at a church launching a new system last year the guy running the switcher kept asking if there was something wrong with my eyes. Said that compared to the DVXs the GL2 was soft. Well, of course it was soft by comparison! As Chris S. alluded earlier, that’s just how the older Canons look when recording wide to medium shots. I shot an event using my XL1s with a guy using a Sony PD170 a while back. We tried to match them up as best we could but his images blew mine away.

Sorry I can’t answer your question about the VIXIA, but I believe just about any HD camera is going to deliver a much better picture. Of course, HD presents its own set of considerations if you’re going to DVD...

Now, back to the mystery: Say, Chris....shot in the dark here, but what about back focus? Could it be out on both cameras?

:)

[Chris Soucy]

I was just about there with sommat basically amiss with both cameras, and my next questions were going to be (when I found your post):

1. Can we have a timeline from purchasing the Canons to now, with regard to this problem?

AND

2. Do you have a provenance for these cameras if they were not purchased new?

The fact that they've both been "serviced" is interesting, as, if it's been recent, it won't have been by Canon. So when and by whom? (and even if serviced by Canon, unless there was a fault log attached to each camera, no fault would have been found due to its nature, even then a long shot due to it's sheer intermittant nature).

Does the "whom" know what the heck they're doing?

I too am starting to think that, in the absence of a resolution to this, the "finance commitee" get their collective heads together and think about replacing the pair of XL1s, as, if faulty, a repair to both is an utter waste of money.

What I cannot figure out is why it's so darn intermittant.

As for replacements if this chase is abandoned (haven't quite yet) hmmm, interesting question, especially knowing how strapped most of the church groups are (ok, some of them, anyway).

To be quite frank, the XL1s could (apart from the 16X lens) be easilly replaced by a brace of second hand Panasonic NV - GS300 "dinky cams" or similar, heck, the pictures infinately better and all they need do is shift the tripods!

Bit of a bugger if they really need that big zoom tho', once you go past 10X it all seems to get a bit pricey.

Whatever, tomorrow is another day and let's see what it brings to this particular conundrum.

Thanks for your input Lorinda, glad to have some backup here!


CS


PS: Blimey Lorinda, what time are you working to? You must be into serious "midnight oil" type stuff!

[Lorinda Norton]

You’re the second person on this board to tell me I’m scary, Chris. Gosh, I don’t feel scary...hope it’s not a psychotic thing. ;)

The zoom factor! Totally forgot about that, but you’re so right. When I was trying to help the church guy find a replacement for the GL2 the zoom problem (lack of on more inexpensive models) kept cropping up.

Let’s see...yup, it’s after 1am here, just right for getting some serious work done. I haven’t seen a sunrise in quite a while. :)

[Les Wilson]

I think what we're grappling with is that the description of the problem matches the effects of shutter dropping below 30fps (motion blur) and focus hunting (OOF for a second). Neither "should" happen if all that stuff is turned off. Logic says:
a) It is not turned off
b) It is turned off but a camera failure or automatic calibration is causing it to turn on briefly and most people don't experience it because most people don't use camcorders in this fashion
c) It's something else and if we saw it, we might have other ideas

Can you post some frame grabs from your video editor of normal and problem shots?

I do what you do every week but with a professionally designed live production setup. You are making due with camcorders. If we're honest with ourselves, a shot that briefly goes out of focus or has motion blur really may not matter. Sounds like you are not re-imaging so it may not even be distracting. It's good we strive to produce perfection, that's the pressure we work under. But in the final analysis, does it matter enough to spend $$$ on more consumer camcorders that will fail in a couple years under this kind of use? Just some thoughts.

[J.L. Payton]

I think what we're grappling with is that the description of the problem matches the effects of shutter dropping below 30fps (motion blur) and focus hunting (OOF for a second). Neither "should" happen if all that stuff is turned off

So call me silly but what is OOF?

I am going to the church all day to test film under different camera settings, etc trying what I learned here, etc. But what is an OOF!

I will post my results as soon as I can..

Thanks,
JL

[Chris Hurd]

OOF = out of focus. Just more videographer shorthand is all.

[Chris Soucy]

(what's the "L" stand for? Lee?).

In all the excitement yesterday I somehow completely missed your post #15 where you mentioned the HV 10.

I'm a little bit lost, as in an earlier post you mentioned "we cannot afford new cameras right now".

Do I take it the HV10 was for your personal use and not part of the Church project?

No doubt, the HV 10 will give you some stunning picture quality, but may I ask what you're going to do with it once you've got it?

(Not trying to be nosy, but ramping up to full 1080 HD, if that is the intent, is a very expensive business to do properly).

Shall leave that subject dormant till I have more info.

I'm really curious to hear how the camera audit went today, get back to us as and when.


CS


PS: As I'm here, can I give you a tiny bit of advice with regard to posting?

Simply c & p'ing from a post into your reply makes the story really hard to follow and takes up a heck of a lot of room.

If you feel it is necessary to do so, click on the blue "Quote" button on the post you wish to quote all or some of, and it will load it into your reply. When posted, it highlights the quote in blue to indicate it is, indeed, a quote.

Overdoing it is a bad habit that seems hard to break once started (IMPO), as you'll discover when trawling DVinfo forums.

Hope you don't mind me saying?

[J.L. Payton]

Yes, my name is Jamie Leigh (pronounced Lee)...

The Canon VIXIA HF10 High Definition Camcorder
I thought may work for shooting at the church... I would have to sell the other cameras to purchase 2 new VIXIA HF10 High Definition Camcorder
but they are only $800-1100.00 max where if I were to get new Pro Cams I would be spending several thousands... I just didn't know if they were too "consumer" to do the job right.

I spent 12 hours at the church today filming, making test segments, etc. writing notes on each - all the adjustments whew... All of your tips that everyone gave really paid off, especially you CS - The video quality is finally excellent. I ended up at 1/75 and F 4.8 plus went through the menus, etc... I tried so many scenerios it isn't funny! I can't believe finally success!

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for the advice! I couldn't have done it without you!

I am just so excited....and tired!

Now we have to figure out the audio problems coming off the soundboard. I do help with audio but it is not my thing... That's another problem entirely though..

I am going to get some sleep as I have church in the morning and quality film to produce! I am actually looking forward to filming now, feeling more confident, and a new excitement to boot! God Bless you all for being here for me.

Goodnight,
JL <--- my dad gave me the nickname by the way.

[Chris Soucy]

Way to go!

Glad we could be of service.

Enjoy, and get back to us if there's anything else DVinfo can help you with.


CS


PS: There really is nothing like a home team win to really make one's day!

[J.L. Payton]

I will... You were such a life saver. I will always come back to this board if the need arises!

Everything went smooth today filming - I think the audio problem is fixed as well. It will sure be nice to have a nice final product for a change.. That's what happens when there is no one to teach you though.

You hit a home run!

God Bless,
JL

[Chris Soucy]

It's positive feedback like yours that makes this so worthwhile.

May the force be with you!


CS

[Les Wilson]

Originally Posted by J.L. Payton

I ended up at 1/75 and F 4.8 plus went through the menus, etc... I tried so many scenerios it isn't funny! I can't believe finally success!

What solved the problem? Putting the dial on M (manual mode) and setting the shutter to 1/75 and iris to f4.8 would prevent the motion blur (due to a shutter speed below 1/30). What about the problem that looked like focus hunting? Was the AF (auto focus) switch on the lens actually set to on?