XL1s vs DVX100

Mizell Wilson · September 3rd, 2003, 03:37 PM

23.97 is 24 is 23.97. They are synonymous. It's a matter of drop vs. non-drop.

As far as poor Bryan, the student just trying to get some friendly advice goes, all of what you need is in the posts preceeding this one, you'll just have to put on some waders to get to it. Good luck with your purchase :)

Mizell

Charles Papert · September 3rd, 2003, 06:26 PM

Poor Bryan indeed! I would be cowering under a tree, thinking I sparked a near-flame war over this simple question. Fortunately, all involved here are gentlemanly enough to keep the debate informational and steer it away from mud-slinging. Good job, gents. Come out from under the tree, Bryan! Come into the light!

My two pfennigs:

For his budget and application, I think the Panasonic would be the best choice. As was pointed out here earlier, the XL1 has significant flexibility because of its modular design, but you have to buy or rent quite a bit to take advantage of same. To equip an XL1 to equal the Panasonic in viewing, wide angle capability, manual lens control and audio input capability costs something like $3-4000 over and above the the cost of the camera. At that point, you arguably have a more flexible system, and then it comes down to a subjective comparison of the image quality.

Regarding the 24p vs frame mode resolution loss: from what I've read here, applying a good de-interlacer like the Magic Bullet suite to 60i footage will net good results. I use the frame mode and like it, but if I was shooting for film blowup I'd stick to the 60i and deal with the conversion in post. Is it easier to shoot 24p to begin with? Sure.

But then again...is it better to use a Mini-35 setup directly onto the chips rather than through a not-high end relay lens (as will be the case with the DVX100)? Absolutely. When you get to the high-end (possibility of filming-out) decision-making process, the compromises become more complicated.

At this point in time, I think we're all aware of HDV knocking on the door of both of these cameras. Within one or two years, eBay will be flooded with plenty of XL1s and DVX100 packages. Any camera purchase made now will become obsolete in a more serious way in the near future; not just in a "planned obsolescence" fashion by the next model of camera that provides incremental upgrades (24P! 16:9 chips!) but by a new format that represents a huge leap in resolution, with even greater implications than the current DV revolution (anyone remember making "movies" on Hi-8?)

Bryan Gateb · September 4th, 2003, 04:47 AM

as a lot have said here, and as i've heard so much from my friend "if you're not going to use the interchangable lenses, get the Panasonic"

I have the old XL1 and it's a fine camera.

John Hudson · September 5th, 2003, 09:45 AM

I am in the market and will be purchasing the Canon XL1s (October) for many reasons, the biggest being "interchangeable lenses" and the customization allowed.

Someone ealier in this thread mentioned the film "28 days later" being shot w/ Xl's, (granted PAL) that sold it for me. I also support the adage "lighting, movement, composition" are the most imporatnt tools in looking "filmlike".

There is something nostalgic abuot the look and feel of the Canon as opposed to the camcorder feel of the DVX. I prefer something that reminds me of my old Bolex, ya know, it just feels like a camera you want to make films with.

Bryan Mitchell · September 5th, 2003, 12:24 PM

I asked the my film proffessor which one he prefers, and he also told me to get the xl1s. He told me that 24p is pretty new, and the only cameras worth filming in 24p were over $100,000. He talked to me for a couple minutes about how the interchangable lenses are really necessary, and because of the lack of changable lenses, much of the film and photography industries still stay with film.

So, thanks for all of your opinions and responses. I have decided to go with the xl1, and I should have it within two weeks.

Mizell Wilson · September 5th, 2003, 12:36 PM

Excellent choice, it will not let you down.

Drop us a line when you're ready to step up to the Mini35 or are interested in our various mechanical adapters for Nikokn and PL lenses for mounting on the XL1s.

Will be in Vegas for the AVN show Jan 8 - 11th if you have any questions while I'm out.

Have a great weekend,

Mizell

John Hudson · September 5th, 2003, 01:18 PM

Jeez. Here I am. scrimping and saving my pennies, er, dollars to get an XL1s w/ Man servo 16x lens and color viewfinder (if I'm lucky, the B + W) and I just watched the mini35 footage....

Oh my. In time, I keep telling myself. In time...

Mizell Wilson · September 5th, 2003, 01:24 PM

Keep saving, it's definitely worth it. And remember, you can always rent the Mini35 :)

Since it came up so many times in this post, anyone interested in receiving a copy of the Mini35 demo footage should contact me a mizell@zgc.com with your postal address.

Have a great weekend,

Mizell

September 3rd, 2003, 03:37 PM	#31
Mizell Wilson Sales: Reflecmedia Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Linden, NJ Posts: 147	23.97 is 24 is 23.97. They are synonymous. It's a matter of drop vs. non-drop. As far as poor Bryan, the student just trying to get some friendly advice goes, all of what you need is in the posts preceeding this one, you'll just have to put on some waders to get to it. Good luck with your purchase :) Mizell __________________ Posts before Feb 2004 were on behalf of ZGC, afterwards they're all mine!

September 3rd, 2003, 06:26 PM	#32
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Poor Bryan indeed! I would be cowering under a tree, thinking I sparked a near-flame war over this simple question. Fortunately, all involved here are gentlemanly enough to keep the debate informational and steer it away from mud-slinging. Good job, gents. Come out from under the tree, Bryan! Come into the light! My two pfennigs: For his budget and application, I think the Panasonic would be the best choice. As was pointed out here earlier, the XL1 has significant flexibility because of its modular design, but you have to buy or rent quite a bit to take advantage of same. To equip an XL1 to equal the Panasonic in viewing, wide angle capability, manual lens control and audio input capability costs something like $3-4000 over and above the the cost of the camera. At that point, you arguably have a more flexible system, and then it comes down to a subjective comparison of the image quality. Regarding the 24p vs frame mode resolution loss: from what I've read here, applying a good de-interlacer like the Magic Bullet suite to 60i footage will net good results. I use the frame mode and like it, but if I was shooting for film blowup I'd stick to the 60i and deal with the conversion in post. Is it easier to shoot 24p to begin with? Sure. But then again...is it better to use a Mini-35 setup directly onto the chips rather than through a not-high end relay lens (as will be the case with the DVX100)? Absolutely. When you get to the high-end (possibility of filming-out) decision-making process, the compromises become more complicated. At this point in time, I think we're all aware of HDV knocking on the door of both of these cameras. Within one or two years, eBay will be flooded with plenty of XL1s and DVX100 packages. Any camera purchase made now will become obsolete in a more serious way in the near future; not just in a "planned obsolescence" fashion by the next model of camera that provides incremental upgrades (24P! 16:9 chips!) but by a new format that represents a huge leap in resolution, with even greater implications than the current DV revolution (anyone remember making "movies" on Hi-8?) __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 5th, 2003, 12:36 PM	#36
Mizell Wilson Sales: Reflecmedia Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Linden, NJ Posts: 147	Excellent choice, it will not let you down. Drop us a line when you're ready to step up to the Mini35 or are interested in our various mechanical adapters for Nikokn and PL lenses for mounting on the XL1s. Will be in Vegas for the AVN show Jan 8 - 11th if you have any questions while I'm out. Have a great weekend, Mizell __________________ Posts before Feb 2004 were on behalf of ZGC, afterwards they're all mine!

September 5th, 2003, 01:24 PM	#38
Mizell Wilson Sales: Reflecmedia Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Linden, NJ Posts: 147	Keep saving, it's definitely worth it. And remember, you can always rent the Mini35 :) Since it came up so many times in this post, anyone interested in receiving a copy of the Mini35 demo footage should contact me a mizell@zgc.com with your postal address. Have a great weekend, Mizell __________________ Posts before Feb 2004 were on behalf of ZGC, afterwards they're all mine!

September 4th, 2003, 04:47 AM	#33
Bryan Gateb Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Indian Wells, CA Posts: 27	as a lot have said here, and as i've heard so much from my friend "if you're not going to use the interchangable lenses, get the Panasonic" I have the old XL1 and it's a fine camera.

September 5th, 2003, 09:45 AM	#34
John Hudson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: 32° 44' N 117° 10' W Posts: 820	I am in the market and will be purchasing the Canon XL1s (October) for many reasons, the biggest being "interchangeable lenses" and the customization allowed. Someone ealier in this thread mentioned the film "28 days later" being shot w/ Xl's, (granted PAL) that sold it for me. I also support the adage "lighting, movement, composition" are the most imporatnt tools in looking "filmlike". There is something nostalgic abuot the look and feel of the Canon as opposed to the camcorder feel of the DVX. I prefer something that reminds me of my old Bolex, ya know, it just feels like a camera you want to make films with.

September 5th, 2003, 12:24 PM	#35
Bryan Mitchell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	I asked the my film proffessor which one he prefers, and he also told me to get the xl1s. He told me that 24p is pretty new, and the only cameras worth filming in 24p were over $100,000. He talked to me for a couple minutes about how the interchangable lenses are really necessary, and because of the lack of changable lenses, much of the film and photography industries still stay with film. So, thanks for all of your opinions and responses. I have decided to go with the xl1, and I should have it within two weeks.

September 5th, 2003, 01:18 PM	#37
John Hudson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: 32° 44' N 117° 10' W Posts: 820	Jeez. Here I am. scrimping and saving my pennies, er, dollars to get an XL1s w/ Man servo 16x lens and color viewfinder (if I'm lucky, the B + W) and I just watched the mini35 footage.... Oh my. In time, I keep telling myself. In time...