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-   -   MA-200 XLR audio adapter questions (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl1s-xl1-watchdog/14163-ma-200-xlr-audio-adapter-questions.html)

ArlenBell September 29th, 2001 08:52 PM

MA-200 XLR audio adapter questions
 
I am getting ready to use the AZDEN 500UDR receiver with the MA-200 and would like to hear the pros and cons of how to connect it. I see only mention of using the camera mic as stereo on audio 1 and using the wireless mic on either of both of audio 2. For simplicity, I am thinking about using only one channel of the camera mic and running the wireless mic input into the other.
When the wireless mic is not in use it would be disconnected and the camera would be recording both channels of audio 1 from the camera mic.
If there is a good reason not to do this, what are the advantages/disadvantages of splitting the wireless mic cable to fee both channels of audio 2.
Does anyone have any other comments about how to best use a wireless receiver with the XL1s (and MA-200)?

Nathan Gifford September 30th, 2001 06:07 PM

I don't have the MA-200. The disadvantage to 4 channel recording is the reduction of audio resolution. Resolution drops from 16 bit to 12.

Can you notice it? Yes, but you will have to strain a bit (or actually 4 bits :-) to hear it. Certainly in some soft apps requiring bandwidth you may notice it.

What are the advantages? I like using 4 channel to mix stereo audio from the main mic with the wireless. I think it is a really neat way to go.

Nathan Gifford

ArlenBell October 1st, 2001 10:17 AM

Thanks Nathan. I was hoping to avoid the 12 bit sound issue as I was concerned that this both complicated the recording of audio and resulted in a lower sound quality. Apparently the sound quality may not be noticeable in the wedding work I do mostly.

I've been playing around with the Xl1s setup as well as the MA-200 and wireless receiver and come to the following conclusions.
1. It is NOT POSSIBLE to use one channel of audio 1 (from the camera mic) and another channel of audio 1 (from the AZDEN receiver) without an awkward wiring setup using the alternate inputs on the camera. I had hoped that it might be as simple of connecting the MA-200 RCA jack to one of the camera inputs for Audio 1. I see now that this is not a simple "override" like on some camera, but an "either/or" set in the menu.
2. If using only the wireless mic input (in addition to the camera mic), it is simpler to plug into the Audio 1 input on the MA-200 and connect the Audio 1 out to the Xl1s Audio 2 input. This avoids the extra set of cables. However, it makes it necessary to pay closer attention to the "backwards" setup.
3. I decided to feed only one channed of Audio 2 from the wireless mic as splitting the signal probably weakens it and give nto added benefit.
4. And the one thing which drive me nuts before I focused on it -- understanding the importance of the Monitor button on the Xl1s. I overlooked the Audio 2 and Mix positions and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hear the wireless signal. VERY important for newbies (like me) to fully inderstand the features of this camera which may be very different from anything we endountered before.
-- Arlen Bell

Nathan Gifford October 1st, 2001 08:12 PM

I leave mine ST-1,2
 
I feed the stereo mic in on their normal connections. AGC can be on or off depending on conditions. I feed the wireless in on either the left or right channel of Audio 2. That seems to work great.

You are right about the audio monitor button. You realize there are three settings 1, 2, and mix. Mix is good for listening to all four channels as a 'sanity check.' Normally, I do levels on the wireless first, then switch to mix so I can hear all four channels. BTW in mix mode you can select which channels you hear more of in the monitor circuit, it does not affect the levels recorded to tape.

The other important thing is to get a good set of headphones. It gives you the ability to hear quality features while recording. Junky headsets just will not do. A lot of people like the Sony 7506.

Nathan Gifford

George Goltz December 3rd, 2001 10:32 AM

canon ma200
 
just bought the MA200 adapter for my XL1S, connected a seinheiser xlr wireless receiver to audio 1 but only to one channel left or right, is there any way to connect xlr jack to both right and left so audio will appear on both?is there such an adapter or cable to do this?

Don Palomaki December 3rd, 2001 04:35 PM

Try an RCA "Y" adapter, 1-female to 2 male. YOuc an find them at Radio Shack and other fine audio accesory stores. Or you could make the adjustment in post when editing.

Ed Frazier December 3rd, 2001 06:31 PM

It would be nice if Canon put a Stereo/Mono switch on the adapter like Beachtek does. In the mono position, both channels are fed the same signal.

Ed Frazier

Don Palomaki December 3rd, 2001 08:06 PM

FWIW: There is an option on the analog audio output. One can send the left (or right) to the left and right output jacks.

I suspect that there could be an issue with the switch in that it would be too easy to flip it accidently and mess up the captured sound when recording 2 channels.

Easy to pan the left to left and right in post

George Goltz December 5th, 2001 08:05 AM

the y adapter works great- exellent audio on both channels, thanks

donaldja December 17th, 2001 09:58 AM

Ho do you pan to L/R in post...I am using Premiere 5.1 and when I pan (the blue band) it makes no difference...if there is no left audio then panning will produce silence.

I was wanting to pan an effect across from one speaker to the other, but movein the blue band produced no effect whatsoever.

???

TIA

D

Justin Walter December 20th, 2001 02:52 AM

5.1
 
When I was in school they were using 5.1 and I was never able to figure out how to consistently pan, sometimes it would work and other times nothing. Now that I'm finally out I bought 6.0. panning is a piece of cake, it has never failed me yet.

donaldja December 20th, 2001 10:50 AM

Right...thanks for that.

Not much help if it's a hit and miss affair. I'm picking up my new machine on Monday and it has P6.0, then I can upgrade the other one.

Thanks for the reply...it's nice to know that I'm not going senile after all!

Cheers

Donald

PS was the transition from P5.1 to P6.0 reasonably pain-free?

Justin Walter December 21st, 2001 02:39 AM

the transition
 
Yeah reasonably, the first few projects I did in it threw me for a loop, I kept asking myself "why did they change that?" and basically complaining about things that I couldn't just do the way I was used to. For example filters felt extremely awkward at first, but now I like it even more. It just takes getting used to.

Henry Czuprinski December 24th, 2001 03:04 PM

Studio 1 alternative
 
Just used the great Studio 1 XLR adapter with my GL1 and I love it. With a sennheiser ME66 I got superb sound, controls, flexability. And it'll do me when I pick up an XL1s this winter. Worth a look for $215.

TruProductions January 10th, 2002 10:52 PM

MA-200 Attachment?
 
Hi All,

Does the MA-200 really give a better balance on your camera? I'll never be using the XLR inputs so 4 of them is useless.. $800AUD is a high price to play for a shoulder mount, id rather spend the money on a Glidecam Pro 4000 with body pod!

Regards,

Vic Owen January 10th, 2002 11:50 PM

The MA-100 provides much the same shoulder mount at a much lower price -- it has two XLR inputs. If you're not interested in the XLR inputs, there are probably better options.
The MA-100 does, however, make the camera more comfortable, IMHO.

Vic

TruProductions January 11th, 2002 06:41 AM

Extended questions about XL1s - please help!
 
Hi all,

Im about to dive into the world of XL1s retiring my VX2000 as my main wedding video camera. There are a few questions that I'd like to find answers to and I would appreciate your help or advice:

1. The MA200 attachment seems larger than the MA100, this might have a positive impact on balancing the camera onto the entire shoulder rather than sitting in front of your shoulder blade. Is there much difference between the MA100 and MA 200?

2. Battery life is a concern for me, Ive enjoyed great battery life my VX2000, how long will a BP-930 last in average use? If I put two batteries into the CH-910 holder does it effective double the time? (might be a silly question but i havent had the chance to fully test the XL1s as yet).

3. I've heard that Lexan batteries claim up to 6 hours, are they available for purchase in Australia?

4. The HC-4100 hard case seems attractive, I've never seen one but seen pictures of it. Is there much space to put accesories into this box? Is it sealed on the edges to prevent dust/sand/water from entering the box?

5. I feel that the focus ring built onto the lens is not responsive at all. Or at least not as responsive as my VX2000. Do you agree?

6. How durable is the XL1s?

I'd appreciate your comments and opinions on this kit.

Cheers,

Rob Lohman January 11th, 2002 07:33 AM

i know the answer to one of your questions.
The XL1S is very durable if you handle her
good! She's made of an magnesium alloy
which is very strong. Just handle it good and
have canon clean her once in a while and your
set!

Ed Frazier January 11th, 2002 07:49 AM

MA-200
 
Never having used the VX2000, I can't answer your questions on the relative merits of the two cameras, but I might be able to help with your MA-200 and battery questions.

<1. The MA200 attachment seems larger than the MA100, this might have a positive impact on balancing the camera onto the entire shoulder rather than sitting in front of your shoulder blade. Is there much difference between the MA100 and MA 200?>

Yes, it is larger than the MA-100 and should be more comfortable to use since it does rest on top of your shoulder. But... it does not place a significant proportion of the camera weight on your shoulder. Most of the weight of the XL1 must still be carried by the arms. The MA-200 does have a sliding arm arrangement that will allow attached items (CH-910, wireless receiver, etc.) to be moved back several inches to alter the balance somewhat. This was not a feature of the MA-100. Check the XL1S Info section of www.DVInfo.net for other camera support options. Look in the Articles section.

I purchased the MA-200 for the 4 XLR inputs and am disappointed to learn that they can only be used with mic level inputs, even though the camera can be set to receive line levels through Audio 1 and 2. To receive line level signals you have to bypass the MA-100/200 and plug directly into the RCA jacks or closely monitor your audio levels going into the MA-100/200.

<2. Battery life is a concern for me, Ive enjoyed great battery life my VX2000, how long will a BP-930 last in average use? If I put two batteries into the CH-910 holder does it effective double the time? (might be a silly question but i havent had the chance to fully test the XL1s as yet).>

I haven't used the BP930 that much but I suspect you should get about 1 hr of constant record time. I have used the BP945 and am getting 2+ hours of recording time. That has been constant record mode with a pause only to change tapes. With that much battery life, I haven't yet needed to test the CH910 so can't comment on your other question. The CH910 literature indicates that current is drawn from both batteries at the same time rather than sequentially. Don't know what difference that makes, but just thought I'd pass it along.

Regards,
Ed Frazier

Greenday Digital January 13th, 2002 07:39 AM

G'day from WA

I purchased an MA-200 for my XL1s and at this stage I have not used the XLR inputs but I plan to and I will let you know they go.

The shoulder pad is not the best as the camera does tend to slide around on the shoulder but it is better that the shoulder pad that is supplied with the camera.

cheers

Greenday

Chris Hurd January 13th, 2002 04:19 PM

If you need a good, solid shoulder support for the XL1, consider Harold Greene's SP7-Pro, in the Support section of the Articles Menu on the XL1 Watchdog. I can tell you from experience that it kicks much butt. Check it out,

TruProductions January 13th, 2002 06:48 PM

Do they sell to international buyers? Im in Australia!

Chris Hurd January 13th, 2002 10:55 PM

Send Harold an e-mail and ask him. I'm trying to get Harold together with Tom McKay so that VariZoom can sell his SP7-Pro through any VariZoom dealer worldwide. Try contacting my mate Paul Hackett in Canberra, he might be able to import one. The trouble as you know is the ridiculous expense of shipping anything down there.

akram007 February 3rd, 2002 04:44 AM

MA-200 for XL 1?????
 
hi,
Can I use the audio adapter MA-200 (4 xlr +BNC) for the XL 1 ??? or is it only for the new xl1s ?

thanks
akram

Ed Frazier February 3rd, 2002 08:26 AM

Yes, the MA200 will work with either model.

Chris Hurd February 3rd, 2002 01:46 PM

Please read my page on the Watchdog called "The XL1S Skinny." All camera bodies, lenses and accessories are completely interchangeable between the XL1 and XL1S. Hope this helps,

akram007 February 3rd, 2002 04:25 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Please read my page on the Watchdog called "The XL1S Skinny." All camera bodies, lenses and accessories are completely interchangeable between the XL1 and XL1S. Hope this helps, -->>>


a friend told me that I can not use the 4 xlr inputs of the MA-200 with the XL1 !!!

Chris Hurd February 3rd, 2002 05:11 PM

<< a friend told me that I can not use the 4 xlr inputs of the MA-200 with the XL1 ! >>

Not true. You *can* use all four XLR inputs on the MA-200 with the XL1. See the Articles section of the Watchdog, look under Audio for an Introduction and Four-Part Guide to XL1 Audio. Hope this helps,

Guest April 1st, 2002 10:43 PM

Ma200
 
I am thinking about buying the MA200 audio adapter for my XL1s.
One thing mystifies me - from the photos that I have seen - the two RCA connectors from the MA200 are seen plugged into the audio 1 port at the rear of the camera. How is that going to give me four channels of sound?

Is the actual hookup - one wire to audio 1 and the other to audio 2 at the side?? Again, how is that going to give me four channels of sound?

What am I missing here?

Chris Hurd April 1st, 2002 10:57 PM

Two more RCA cables (included) connect between a pair of RCA jacks on the right side of the MA200 and the pair of RCA "Audio 2" input jacks on the right side of the XL1 handle. These extra cables are very often eliminated from the product photos but they are indeed included. Hope this helps,

Guest April 2nd, 2002 12:03 AM

Thanks Chris - that explains that! (You ARE burning midnight oil!)

Guest April 2nd, 2002 09:59 AM

Next question - what is the power mini-plug used for? Is that phantom power for the mic inputs? Or power-in from an additional battery or two?

I have also noticed that I have to convert the 12 bit audio to 16 bit in Premiere (for it to play correctly). I am trying to decide whether to go with a field-mixer or the MA200. I prefer editable audio lines so I am leaning toward the MA200. I supposed I could get both.

The one thing that bothers me with using the camera as a sound mixer is that Audio 1 channels are not so much mixed as balanced (turning one up turns the other down).

I wonder if there is room on and in the MA200 to add a couple volume controls for channels 1 & 2.

Vic Owen April 2nd, 2002 02:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Randall3 : Next question - what is the power mini-plug used for? Is that phantom power for the mic inputs? Or power-in from an additional battery or two?. -->>>

The power cable is strictly to provide power to the active electronics inside the MA-200. It does not provide phantom power.

Don Palomaki April 2nd, 2002 08:11 PM

Audio 1 has a ganged level and a balance control. Audio 2 has individual level controls.

Guy Pringle April 20th, 2002 12:02 AM

To all MA-200 users,

When considering buying a case for your XL1S with the MA-200 attached, beware of those cables sticking out the side. Don't think they'll last too long going in and out a tight fitting bag, unless you're always watching it.

Ed Smith July 2nd, 2002 03:27 PM

MA 200 question
 
Just recently bought the MA200 adapter for my XL1, everything looks fine and seems to be working, but I have a few questions:

Does the 5V DC input drain the onboard battery quicker? If so does any one know how much?

I have a Sennheiser wireless receiver but how are people attaching it to this adapter? At the moment I am just clipping it to the extra metal bit, which If I were to suddenly move the camera, or somebody walks into it i feel that it might fall off. Any suggestions on how to secure the receiver?

Thanks,

Ed Smith

P.S.
I never released that the left and right audio outputs on the back of the camera were also inputs (I think they are described as audio 1). You learn things everyday with this camera, it just amazes me!!!

Don Palomaki July 11th, 2002 10:35 AM

Given that posts were lost. The answer is that the MA-100 (and no doubt the MA-200) present a very small battery drain and should not reuslt in a significant reduction in available run time.

I, and a number of people have used the heavy duty velcro-like plastic stuff to attached items to the vertical flange on the MA-100. Can't say whether or not it is adequate for the Sennheiser wireless unit.

Nathan Gifford July 11th, 2002 11:30 AM

Gorrilla Velcro Should Do...
 
I mount my Sennheiser SK100 receiver to the side of the handle on top of the cam, on the tape door side (NOT ON THE TAPE DOOR!!!). The only time I have knocked it off is when I shove my hand through the handle.

Nathan Gifford

Ed Smith July 11th, 2002 01:36 PM

Thanks for the posts again.

I went up in the loft to find the box for the reciever, and found that those guys at Sennheiser have kindly supplied me with heavy duty plastic velcro, how kind. I have now attached this to the metal plate on the MA200, and it ain't going no where.

Thanks again,

Ed Smith

Ron Transco July 13th, 2002 09:47 PM

Receiver mounting with the MA-200
 
I seem to remenber reading some place that you can attach your wireless receiver to the MA-200. How is this done. My current receiver can attach with a clip or shoe mount. I'm considering buying the Nebtek monitor, which means I need another way to mount my receiver.


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