XL1s Artifacts - what's causing this?

Robert Knecht Schmidt · December 3rd, 2003, 07:28 AM

Jonathan, if this block distortion is persistent and none of the usual remedies (resetting the camera, head cleaning, etc.) ameliorate the problem, there's no subsitute for having your camera serviced by Canon. If your camera is under warranty, there won't be any cost; if not, I'm willing to bet the insured shipping to Canon will be more expensive than the actual repair.

Lorinda, the lower left-hand corner is the region of interest. Seely G. Mudd, the tower in the background of Jonathan's shot, isn't part of the film school, but largely houses the chemistry department. I spent many a long nap, I mean OChem lecture there. As for being too old/broke to go back to school, should that be your heart's dream... One of my neighbors, who was pursuing an undergraduate film degree, was in his late thirties. (He was the only one of us who'd actually seen STAR WARS the day it opened.) Also, USC gives out more tuition aid than any other school.

Lorinda Norton · December 3rd, 2003, 12:08 PM

Jonathan,

It looks like I owe you a huge apology. I thought Robert was referring to some technical terms in his post !--not an actual place, so the last thing I looked for in that link is a picture. Now that I read his post again, it finally makes sense. I'm sorry; I should have asked you to clarify instead of jumping to a conclusion.

Robert,

Thanks for the encouragement, though now that I'm in my mid-forties school just doesn't seem feasible. Plus, if I can misjudge terms/initials like I did in this thread, well, maybe the old girl needs to "stay a little closer to the porch." Dreams will always be there, but reality is fun too!

...and sorry to get so off-topic!

Franco Zefferi · December 3rd, 2003, 05:12 PM

I have the same issue on my XL1-S camera, but I can see it only when I capture my video (made with xl1-s) using another miniDV player (I used Panasonic and now JVC HR-DV S3).
If I capture using XL1-S I don't see that issue so clear, but I can clearly hear an audio noise in the same place where I would have that squares.
If I apply some effects on it (for instance color correction) these blocks became white.
I have it randomly along all tape, and they are long 1, max 2 frames.
I will bring my camera to Canon Service this week.

Jonathan Pike · January 8th, 2004, 05:26 PM

Franco - did you ever take your camera into Canon? If so, what did they say?

Mark A. Foley · January 9th, 2004, 06:07 PM

Jonathan,
I get the same type of artifacts also...and it never happens when I capture using the XL1S...just when I use my JVC deck. I have one of my cameras at Canon right now...hopefully I will hear from them early next week

Mark A. Foley · January 9th, 2004, 06:14 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Lorinda Norton : Gosh, Jonathan, isn't that much head cleaner use going to be too hard on the heads?

Regardless of how long you've had the camera, maybe you should send it to Irvine for servicing and tell them the problem. I've had two XL1s's for a couple of years now, and had a problem kind of like that with one of them, plus minor problems on both. I've been REALLY happy with the service center; last month they even replaced some assemblies on one camera and didn't charge any more than a regular service!

It's well worth the 4-6 weeks (for me it's usually four) without your camera. -->>>

Yikes..four weeks for the Irvine center....sheesh...must be that laid back california lifestyle...the NJ center turns them in 5 business days or less

Jonathan Pike · January 9th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Hehe, well thankfully I live near the Irvine center.

Mark - how much is the regular service? $400?

John Heskett · January 9th, 2004, 09:07 PM

Jonathan, per chance are you capturing the footage to the computer with a JVC Deck?

Sorry I just saw Mark's post on the same thing.
JVC does have problems with this. They are going to apply some service bulletins and a parts upgrade of some kind to mine. I only hope it fixes the problem.

Jonathan Pike · January 9th, 2004, 09:13 PM

No, I don't own anything JVC.

I've been capturing on my Sony PC-9, a DSR-1500, and my XL1s. It seems to happen no matter what deck I use, though it is very intermittant and doesn't happen that often.

Mark A. Foley · January 10th, 2004, 03:38 AM

For Jonathan...regualr service is $250...if your an XL1 club member , it is 95

For John,
Do you know what JVC deck? I'm using the SR-VS30U

Franco Zefferi · January 10th, 2004, 01:34 PM

Jonathan,
I brought my camera at canon service yesterday and they will say me something next week.
I captured my last video using XL1-S and I had those blocks clearly.
I never had them so clear using XL1-s (only with JVC deck I had), I cleaned heads twice but with no good results.
Next week I will say you what Canon service said.
Franco

John Heskett · January 10th, 2004, 02:48 PM

I also have the SR-VS30U deck.
JVC was not very forthcoming on the fact there were tech bulletins or updates/upgrades on my deck. All the tech rep said was I need to send it in for service. He never let on that anything I had said was even vaguely familiar. Finally I asked him point blank if he had ever heard of this problem. He said yes they get blamed for it all the time. This issue is on many forums and is wide spread with JVC, not just the decks. One guy who said he worked in the JVC service center in Italy and claimed it had something to do with capacitors. The service rep I spoke with did not log my call or give a reference number, but said to detail the problem, include a tape showing the problem and specifically ask for all teck bulletins and updates to be applied to the unit.

Mark A. Foley · January 10th, 2004, 03:32 PM

John,
What service center have you been dealing with? To think I've been blaming this intermittent problem on my cam....

You mention forums discussing this problem...where may I find them.?

I guess I need to contact them also and try to get my deck resolved....bummer.....

John Heskett · January 10th, 2004, 04:25 PM

Matrox RT.X100 Xtreme User forums » Hardware » General Troubleshooting » JVC Firmware Updates?

The url is http://forum.matrox.com

I spoke with the Professional Field Rep not the serivce Center. I will call the Service Centers in my area Monday to find the one with the shortest current turn-around. You can find the service centers for your product and area on the JVC site. Just do a Google search for JVC USA.

Mark A. Foley · January 11th, 2004, 05:33 PM

I got this from a JVC rep...
" The problem Mr. Foley has (he sent a still frame to show it) is a very specific problem that few have.

We have taken the decks to other NLE systems and they work fine.

We have exchanged decks and the new decks show the same errors when hooked to the customer's NLE.

These errors are different from the common DV errors or as some call it pixelization. Those errors have several causes.

What Mr. Foley is seeing seems to relate to the grounding environment between the deck and the particular computer. This is why so few people have this problem.

We have a modification that can improve it but not eliminate it since the computer itself is likely related somehow to the problem.

The symptoms are twofold:
1. the errors are misshaped data blocks mostly occuring on edges in the image and are usually fo only one or two frames and usually only every couple minutes or so.
2. they occur when 1394 is connected. In otherwords, if you play a tape with the 1394 disconnected and watch carefully you will not see the errors, but when you connect the 1394 and play the same tape, if you watch very carefully you will see the errors go by even if you are just playing back and not digitizing.

We are continuing to try to solve this but it is rather rare and hard to pin down."

Until I can figure out exactly what I need to do, I will use another deck to capture footage.....

December 3rd, 2003, 07:28 AM	#16
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Jonathan, if this block distortion is persistent and none of the usual remedies (resetting the camera, head cleaning, etc.) ameliorate the problem, there's no subsitute for having your camera serviced by Canon. If your camera is under warranty, there won't be any cost; if not, I'm willing to bet the insured shipping to Canon will be more expensive than the actual repair. Lorinda, the lower left-hand corner is the region of interest. Seely G. Mudd, the tower in the background of Jonathan's shot, isn't part of the film school, but largely houses the chemistry department. I spent many a long nap, I mean OChem lecture there. As for being too old/broke to go back to school, should that be your heart's dream... One of my neighbors, who was pursuing an undergraduate film degree, was in his late thirties. (He was the only one of us who'd actually seen STAR WARS the day it opened.) Also, USC gives out more tuition aid than any other school. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 3rd, 2003, 05:12 PM	#18
Franco Zefferi New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: roma - italia Posts: 10	I have the same issue on my XL1-S camera, but I can see it only when I capture my video (made with xl1-s) using another miniDV player (I used Panasonic and now JVC HR-DV S3). If I capture using XL1-S I don't see that issue so clear, but I can clearly hear an audio noise in the same place where I would have that squares. If I apply some effects on it (for instance color correction) these blocks became white. I have it randomly along all tape, and they are long 1, max 2 frames. I will bring my camera to Canon Service this week. __________________ Franco

January 9th, 2004, 09:07 PM	#23
John Heskett Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Terre Haute Indiana Posts: 181	Jonathan, per chance are you capturing the footage to the computer with a JVC Deck? Sorry I just saw Mark's post on the same thing. JVC does have problems with this. They are going to apply some service bulletins and a parts upgrade of some kind to mine. I only hope it fixes the problem. __________________ Illuminate the Vision

January 10th, 2004, 01:34 PM	#26
Franco Zefferi New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: roma - italia Posts: 10	Jonathan, I brought my camera at canon service yesterday and they will say me something next week. I captured my last video using XL1-S and I had those blocks clearly. I never had them so clear using XL1-s (only with JVC deck I had), I cleaned heads twice but with no good results. Next week I will say you what Canon service said. Franco __________________ Franco

January 10th, 2004, 02:48 PM	#27
John Heskett Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Terre Haute Indiana Posts: 181	I also have the SR-VS30U deck. JVC was not very forthcoming on the fact there were tech bulletins or updates/upgrades on my deck. All the tech rep said was I need to send it in for service. He never let on that anything I had said was even vaguely familiar. Finally I asked him point blank if he had ever heard of this problem. He said yes they get blamed for it all the time. This issue is on many forums and is wide spread with JVC, not just the decks. One guy who said he worked in the JVC service center in Italy and claimed it had something to do with capacitors. The service rep I spoke with did not log my call or give a reference number, but said to detail the problem, include a tape showing the problem and specifically ask for all teck bulletins and updates to be applied to the unit. __________________ Illuminate the Vision

December 3rd, 2003, 12:08 PM	#17
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Jonathan, It looks like I owe you a huge apology. I thought Robert was referring to some technical terms in his post !--not an actual place, so the last thing I looked for in that link is a picture. Now that I read his post again, it finally makes sense. I'm sorry; I should have asked you to clarify instead of jumping to a conclusion. Robert, Thanks for the encouragement, though now that I'm in my mid-forties school just doesn't seem feasible. Plus, if I can misjudge terms/initials like I did in this thread, well, maybe the old girl needs to "stay a little closer to the porch." Dreams will always be there, but reality is fun too! ...and sorry to get so off-topic!

January 8th, 2004, 05:26 PM	#19
Jonathan Pike New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 17	Franco - did you ever take your camera into Canon? If so, what did they say?

January 9th, 2004, 06:07 PM	#20
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	Jonathan, I get the same type of artifacts also...and it never happens when I capture using the XL1S...just when I use my JVC deck. I have one of my cameras at Canon right now...hopefully I will hear from them early next week

January 9th, 2004, 06:14 PM	#21
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	<<<-- Originally posted by Lorinda Norton : Gosh, Jonathan, isn't that much head cleaner use going to be too hard on the heads? Regardless of how long you've had the camera, maybe you should send it to Irvine for servicing and tell them the problem. I've had two XL1s's for a couple of years now, and had a problem kind of like that with one of them, plus minor problems on both. I've been REALLY happy with the service center; last month they even replaced some assemblies on one camera and didn't charge any more than a regular service! It's well worth the 4-6 weeks (for me it's usually four) without your camera. -->>> Yikes..four weeks for the Irvine center....sheesh...must be that laid back california lifestyle...the NJ center turns them in 5 business days or less

January 9th, 2004, 06:28 PM	#22
Jonathan Pike New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 17	Hehe, well thankfully I live near the Irvine center. Mark - how much is the regular service? $400?

January 9th, 2004, 09:13 PM	#24
Jonathan Pike New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 17	No, I don't own anything JVC. I've been capturing on my Sony PC-9, a DSR-1500, and my XL1s. It seems to happen no matter what deck I use, though it is very intermittant and doesn't happen that often.

January 10th, 2004, 03:38 AM	#25
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	For Jonathan...regualr service is $250...if your an XL1 club member , it is 95 For John, Do you know what JVC deck? I'm using the SR-VS30U

January 10th, 2004, 03:32 PM	#28
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	John, What service center have you been dealing with? To think I've been blaming this intermittent problem on my cam.... You mention forums discussing this problem...where may I find them.? I guess I need to contact them also and try to get my deck resolved....bummer.....

January 10th, 2004, 04:25 PM	#29
John Heskett Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Terre Haute Indiana Posts: 181	Matrox RT.X100 Xtreme User forums » Hardware » General Troubleshooting » JVC Firmware Updates? The url is http://forum.matrox.com I spoke with the Professional Field Rep not the serivce Center. I will call the Service Centers in my area Monday to find the one with the shortest current turn-around. You can find the service centers for your product and area on the JVC site. Just do a Google search for JVC USA. __________________ Illuminate the Vision

January 11th, 2004, 05:33 PM	#30
Mark A. Foley Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Bonaire, Ga. Posts: 356	I got this from a JVC rep... " The problem Mr. Foley has (he sent a still frame to show it) is a very specific problem that few have. We have taken the decks to other NLE systems and they work fine. We have exchanged decks and the new decks show the same errors when hooked to the customer's NLE. These errors are different from the common DV errors or as some call it pixelization. Those errors have several causes. What Mr. Foley is seeing seems to relate to the grounding environment between the deck and the particular computer. This is why so few people have this problem. We have a modification that can improve it but not eliminate it since the computer itself is likely related somehow to the problem. The symptoms are twofold: 1. the errors are misshaped data blocks mostly occuring on edges in the image and are usually fo only one or two frames and usually only every couple minutes or so. 2. they occur when 1394 is connected. In otherwords, if you play a tape with the 1394 disconnected and watch carefully you will not see the errors, but when you connect the 1394 and play the same tape, if you watch very carefully you will see the errors go by even if you are just playing back and not digitizing. We are continuing to try to solve this but it is rather rare and hard to pin down." Until I can figure out exactly what I need to do, I will use another deck to capture footage.....