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-   -   14x manual lens (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl1s-xl1-watchdog/19823-14x-manual-lens.html)

Justin Walter January 16th, 2002 03:24 AM

mattebox for the canon 14x manual lens?
 
I'm looking for a mattebox for my Xl1 that will work with the canon 14x manual lens. The front of the lens rotates when you adjust the focus, so I'm not sure which matte box will work and which will not. I've looked around the ZGC site and I'm still unsure as they never mention that any mattebox being able to work with the canon 14x manual lens.

They do say that the OpTex Bellow Matte Box/Filter Holder with Optional Bracketry available to work with the XLPRO 14 x 5.5mm lens! for an extra $399. Maybe the optional bracketry needed for the XLPRO is the same as the canon 14x manual, but I don't know.

Does anyone use a mattebox with this lens? And if so where did you buy it, would you recommend it?

Chris Hurd January 16th, 2002 05:50 PM

You'll need to use a matte box mounted on rails. The rails hold it in place in front of the lens. The gear at ZGC for the Optex/Fuji lens should work with the Canon 14x as well. Call ZGC to verify.

Jean-Claude Nouchy December 18th, 2002 09:58 AM

manual 14x practice
 
Hi,
I had during last week my self Xmas gifts! Canon Wide 3x and Canon Manual 14x (both payed not so much i guess, 900 Euro first, 600 USD - ebay brand new - for the manual) and i simply... LOVE 'em!

now my default lens is the wide angle and i love the way of working with the manual lens.

now i really need/love to be able to use the Manual lens well as faster as possible, i'll take all the free time shooting everything i'll find in my way... but... is there any of you that wishes to gives me sort of "practical techinques" to improve the use of such lens?

i mean excercise that could be done at home.. or in easy setups, someone gave me the advice to go at the stadium and try to shoot the ball (soccer or even baseball).

what i need is first of all improving my Manual lens use understanding back focus, iris, and steady shots (my hand is not really so steady).


i'll have my holidays next January and i'll leave for Egipt, i guess i'll have so much situation and nice place to be shooted that it might be a self training itself :]

i'll let you know how is gone by posting some shooting after january!

thanks for any advice, comment.

XL1 owns me!! :]

merry xmas-1s and happy 2oo3 to all

Rik Sanchez December 18th, 2002 05:32 PM

Congratulations on your new lenses. The best way to get the feel for the lenses is to not only practice but also to use the lenses during real shoots. Using them during real shoots will give you the experience to use it for that type of work, for example, if you shoot some live bands, shooting lots of live bands will give you the experience and practice you need to be able to shoot great live performance.

Egypt sounds great, if you are shooting near the pyramids, it might be a good idea to bring a cover for your camera, if theres a lot of wind, sand and dust might get into your camera.

I bought an Apple iBook for myself for Xmas, getting new gear is always fun.

Have fun on your holiday!

Jean-Claude Nouchy December 19th, 2002 04:51 AM

I'll get today my PortaBrace for the XL1 so sand and wind shoulndt be a problem.. can someone confirm me that?... i was in doubt between Portabrace and Kata Rain cover.. i choosed Portabrace cause of is really the same size of the XL1s and fits it so perfect and it wont give me any difficulties in handling it on boats or jeeps...

about practiceing, i might also ask for any good books.

I tried some settings with the 14x manual considering advices given here in some posts but i'm still confused :].

about real shooting, yeah, i agree but i really wish to improve a little bit Before doing real shooting that might be just garbage and without the opportuninty to shoot it again. :]

thanks for the advice, Live performance will be also subject i'll shoot :]

Robert J. Wolff December 20th, 2002 06:38 AM

manual 14X practice
 
I have been using both the summer, and, now, at this time of year, the winter portabrace covers for my XL-1s. My only complaint is that the summer cover does not have a side pocket for filters, tape, etc. The winter cover does. They keep the weather out quite well. Still, I would bring some large plastic bags, for unusual situations.

As to practicing focus. Two of the more difficult sports for contant changing of focus that I have covered, were close shooting of auto races, and, aircraft races. If you can shoot either locally, I believe that it will greatly improve your "feel" for the lens in action.

How about a model air plane club? Some of those models are very, very fast.

Have a good trip.

Dylan Couper January 9th, 2003 12:33 AM

should I pass up a cheap 14x lens?
 
I found a Canon 14x lens for sale for about $500us. New, in person, from a real store. I don't really need it, but would I be a fool to pass it up for this price?

Chris Hurd January 9th, 2003 01:04 AM

A major advantage of that lens is a true analog iris control ring. You can change exposure in a very subtle way, not "stepped" like the newer 16x manual (iris control on camera body). Your call. Excellent price.

Ken Tanaka January 9th, 2003 01:04 AM

If you don't feel you need it you might be a "fool" not to pass it up. It's a nice lens and that's a good price but...so what.

Jeff Donald January 9th, 2003 07:03 AM

I agree with Ken, but if the money is not an issue, at that price you can try it and if yo don't like, sell it and get your money back. I wouldn't buy it just to turn around and sell it on ebay to make a few dollars. Too, much aggravation.

Jeff

Dylan Couper January 9th, 2003 09:48 AM

I don't need it in the same way that no one else on this forum really needs it. Everyone here c o u l d make do with the stock 16x lens if they had to, right? I'm in the same boat.

What filter thread does the 14x use? Is it 72mm as well? Was there an issue with lens hoods not mounting on that lens, or clamp on matte boxes not working with it?

Jeff Donald January 9th, 2003 11:41 AM

It's 72mm and it comes with a hood and pouch to store the lens in. It's a little sharper than either White 16X lens and like Chris, I like the analog aperature control.

Jeff

Ken Tanaka January 9th, 2003 12:04 PM

I have the lens and like it also.

I might add that the 14x's iris ring is a continuous motion ring! That is, there are no hard click-stops at each f-stop. The iris opens and closes smoothly.

Since the front element of the lens rotates with the focus ring you will not be able to mount a hood on the filter ring threads.

Charles Papert January 10th, 2003 12:13 AM

Dylan:

I just got one for $650 new and I thought I did pretty well. Damn, you did good! OK, I'm jealous.

I've never liked the white lenses, and I actually prefer the 14x to the 16x because the iris control is much more "available" and I don't need the extra millimeters at the long end of the lens (sure wish they had made it wider at the wide end, though).

If you are shooting or planning to shoot "film style", i.e. with the possibility of accessorizing with matte boxes, follow focus etc., and need the capability of accurate, repeatable, critical focusing, the manual lens is the way to go. It's a hell of a lot of lens for $500.

Dylan Couper January 12th, 2003 03:11 PM

Charles I haven't bought it yet! I'm probably not going to, as I have a bunch of other substantial expenses coming up soon.

Tom Schan April 18th, 2003 08:19 AM

Manual 14x Lens... foreground/background
 
I need advice, i'm looking to purchase the 14x manual Lens, but i wanted to know:

Can you use it to film the foreground in focus, while the background it out of focus?

If you can, can you

Then bring the background into focus?

Please advise if this can actually be done with the normal canon lens.

Cheers

Appologies for my ignorance... no excuses.

Tom

Ken Tanaka April 18th, 2003 08:46 AM

Welcome Tom,
What you refer to is "Depth of Field" (DOF). See Jeff Donald's article on the main site for full coverage of the fundamentals of this topic. In brief, yes you can but the relatively small rear aperture of video cameras (such as the 1/3" of the XL1s) presents limitations to shallow DOF.

Tom Schan April 18th, 2003 09:25 AM

Cheers Ken

Most appreciated.

So i know now it is worth purchasing.

Tom

Ken Tanaka April 18th, 2003 09:34 AM

It's an excellent lens. ( See my 16x review for photos and comparisons with the 14x.) I think its iris mechanism is the best that Canon has produced.

But, in itself, it will not deliver greater DOF control than your 16x standard lense, per se. It will, however, enable you handier control of that iris.

Dylan Couper April 18th, 2003 11:08 AM

It will have the same depth of field as the stock lense.
The focus shifting technique you describe from front to back is called "rack focus".
It can be done with both lenses, but is much easier to do on the 14x manual lens.

Mark Argerake April 18th, 2003 07:58 PM

I was under the impression that the manual 14x and manual servo 16x could both do a rack focus and the only basic diffenences where the 2x and the servo. Am I wrong?

Ken Tanaka April 18th, 2003 08:07 PM

Yes, they both "rack focus" easily. The focus ring on both is completely manual and the black lens barrels of each are easy to mark with a white pencil if needed.

Mark, see my 16x review page (linked above) for complete notes on the 16x and 14x manual lens differences.

Charles King April 18th, 2003 11:08 PM

Ken, Your link doesn't work

Ken Tanaka April 18th, 2003 11:12 PM

Charles,
Hmmm...it works for me...it must be biased <g>. Here's the link:

http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article82.php

Stephen Birdsong May 8th, 2003 03:38 AM

Manual 14x and Matte Box
 
I recently bought a 14x manual for my xl1s, and I read that I wont be able to use a matte box with it. The end of the lens rotates, and this obviously would cause problems. Has anyone a solution to this problem? I do not have the auto lens.

stephen

Rob Lohman May 8th, 2003 05:39 AM

If you have a mattebox then simply try it out and see what
happens. If you don't I know there are matteboxes out there
with support rods that allow the lens to rotate. I don't know
where I saw this so I hope someone else will chime in with
more info on this!

Stephen Birdsong May 8th, 2003 08:11 AM

No, I dont have a matte box. Im looking to invest in one.

Stephen

Adrian Douglas May 8th, 2003 08:19 AM

Basically matteboxes for the XL1 come in two styles:

1. Clamp-on, which mount to the front off the lens and cannot be used with either the Fujinon or Canon 14x lenses as their front elements rotate.

2. Rail mount. The mattebox is supported by rails that are fixed to a plate that mounts to the underside of the camera via the tripod mounting hole. This can be used with lenses with rotating front elements like the Fujinon and Canon 14x lenses.

Stephen Birdsong May 8th, 2003 08:21 AM

Ok, Thanks Adrian.

The only Matte Box I know of for the Xl1s is the century optics. Does anyone have any suggestions about which Matte Box to use?

Adrian Douglas May 8th, 2003 08:30 AM

Stephen,

As well as the Century Optics mattebox, the Cavision Mattebox also has rails for use with the 14x lens

Robert Castiglione June 6th, 2003 06:36 PM

14X lens revisited
 
Hi everyone,

Just bought my 14X manual lens. For those thinking about doing the same - was it worth it?

Hell yes. The issues are nicely summed up by Ken Tanaka in his excellent article.

If you do tripod work get it. I use it for drama. It is great to have all controls on the lens. Feels like finer control. I fancy that resolution does look sharper but cant be sure.

I have to say that I find it hard to go back to the standard lens after using the manual lens. Even for hand held work I am getting more and more used to the manual lens.

Rob Castiglione

Chris Hurd June 7th, 2003 12:04 PM

Thanks Robert -- the article Robert is referencing is http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article82.php.

Stephen Birdsong June 25th, 2003 01:33 PM

Problem with 14x & zoom
 
I own a 14x lense, I have never tried to allow the camera to control the zoom, iris etc... untill one day when I tried to use the stock lense. The camera could not control the zoom, but since I was in the middle of an event, I kept using my manual 14x. I didnt think much of it.
I decided to try to let my camera control the iris one day, and found to my dismay, that this also did not work. I searched through the menu to find some setting to change, and found none. the zoom grip and zoom handle options under the cam setup menu is shaded out.
Any ideas?

a bit concerned,
Stephen

Chris Hurd June 25th, 2003 05:04 PM

Stephen

On the Canon 14x lens, everything -- including iris -- is full manual. There is no auto exposure with that lens; that's the way it's made. Hope this helps,

Stephen Birdsong June 25th, 2003 05:05 PM

thats what I always thought, but what is the servo looking thingy for?

Chris Hurd June 25th, 2003 05:10 PM

It's just a shroud to cover internal gears.

Stephen Birdsong June 25th, 2003 05:11 PM

Yeah, but what are the gears for? do you know if there are any aftermarket parts for this lense?

Christopher Egli June 29th, 2003 01:11 PM

14x versus standard lens, & other stuff
 
Hi. I only just joined this group yesterday and don't know too much about how it works - I hope this is the right way to post a question.

I'm hoping to shoot a feature length film on my XL1 this summer, and I'm just wondering whether it's worth the expense to buy the 14 x manual lens - does it really make a signifigant difference in the overall image quality?

Any comments or suggestions would be welcome, or direct me to the right page to read about this.

Thanks alot, Chris

Nori Wentworth June 30th, 2003 10:25 AM

It makes a huge difference, and is well worth the price, especially if you plan on eventually screening it in a theatre.

-Nori

Don Palomaki June 30th, 2003 04:29 PM

So which is the better manual Canon lens for the XL1? the 14x or 16x?


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