16:9 Anamorphic - mini35

May 27th, 2002, 07:15 PM

How to do TRUE (not in camara letter box) when we use mini35 adapter on XL1 ?

Do we have anamorphic adaptors for 35mm film zoom lenses (for example Cooke 20/100 Zoom Lens) and for 35mm prime lenses ?

Peace...

Justin Chin · May 27th, 2002, 08:38 PM

To do real anamorphic on the P+S Technik you'll want to rent or buy a set of 35mm anamorphic lenses. They are not cheap and they are hard to find, so renting is probably your best bet.

I've considered this option as well, and if a project warrants it I'll rent, or even buy if I can find the right price. The trick is finding the right price.

May 28th, 2002, 04:58 AM

Hi..

Thanks for the reply..looks like the costs are simply adding up.

Can you please let me know why we NEED to use the cine lenses after all? The resolution of DV is anyway around 500 lines and we do not really need 2000 lines of resolution on the lens.

Can we use any Nikon lens that is used for 35mm still photograhy? They come like 300 to 1000 dollars and have the same zoom range as their higher priced cine zoom lenses. May be on the same lines it may be cheaper to obtain/manufacture a anamorphic adaptor for these small guys..

Any comments are appreciated. We are planning to shoot a feature with XL1s PAL and would dearly like to use mini35 and also get a TRUE anamorphic within 15,000 dollars rig...(incl. camera !). The final release would be on film..

Peace...

Justin Chin · May 28th, 2002, 05:24 AM

The reason to use the mini35 adapter is to take advantage of the optical characteristics of 35mm lenses, e.g. shallow depth of field. The extra "resolution" of the lens does count for a lot as well, you do see the extra resolution, since 35mm cine glass can be that much better than standard video lenses. An article in the April American Cinematographer illustrates it. I've done my own tests as well.

I have yet to test Nikon still lenses on the adapter (this requires the purchase of an optional Nikon mount).

You also will not have gears on most still lenses and it will make it a little harder to focus pull without a follow focus. Finding focus will be much harder with the mini35 in place, the depth of field is that shallow.

Call ZGC and or go visit them to check it out. They're in Mountain Lakes NJ (I have no idea if they're near you).

May 28th, 2002, 05:10 PM

Hi..

I contacted ZGC. It looks like we need to use a 35mm anamorphic adaptor on a 35mm zoom lens.

And some company in Germany manufactures them and they do not have any information about these lenses...

Wish I could find a low cost adaptor for Nikon lenses..looks like my project needs to go without the mini35 for now - I badly need TRUE 16:9..

Take care

Peace..

Ken Tanaka · May 28th, 2002, 08:47 PM

"I badly need TRUE 16:9"

Have you considered renting a camera with a native 16:9 CCD block, such as Sony's DSR500 or DSR570? Just a thought that might help.

Chris Hurd · May 28th, 2002, 10:45 PM

Or a JVC GY-DV700 or a Panasonic AJ-D610. Check your local rental houses.

Martin Munthe · May 30th, 2002, 02:44 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong; a scope lens (used for shooting anamorphic 1:2.35 on 35mm) produces a 1:2.66 aspect ratio on a 4x3 CCD since it is not equivalent of the full frame 35mm negative. This means cropping the sides in post to get the correct cinemascope aspect ratio.

Cropping a 1:2.66 image down to 16x9 (1:77) in post would be like throwing away half the resolution of the NTSC/PAL DV image.

I would not recommend using anamorphic adaptors on 35mm lenses. They are a world of pain to focus. Better to try to find Russian LomoScopes on Ebay. They are rare but great and does not set you back as much. Hawks are rehoused Lomos.

Also keep in mind that most Scope lenses are very heavy. It's very hard to do hand held work with most scope lenses.

May 30th, 2002, 06:18 PM

Hmmm..

I think if we use 2:1 anamorphic lens and use the above crop % (ie if we use the equation for 1:2.35 we get 1:2.66 on the CCD => 88%)

This comes about 20% cropping from 2:1 anamorphic on to DV.

Pros:
Cine lens = better picture
V. low DOF = filmic look

Cons:
Expensive (zoom lens: $8000, 2:1 anamorphic lens : $5000)
mini35 rig($9000)
Heavy

But still it MAY be worth to loose 20% resolution if the DOF *CAN* make that much difference on the overall look of the project.

Or may be use the money to light the shoot professionally and that may have a even better effect - actually I am tending towards this...

Decisons... decisions... decisions...

Thanks for the information anyway..this board rocks..

Peace..

May 27th, 2002, 07:15 PM	#1
whyjay_nj Posts: n/a	16:9 Anamorphic - mini35 - P+S Technic How to do TRUE (not in camara letter box) when we use mini35 adapter on XL1 ? Do we have anamorphic adaptors for 35mm film zoom lenses (for example Cooke 20/100 Zoom Lens) and for 35mm prime lenses ? Peace...

May 27th, 2002, 08:38 PM	#2
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	To do real anamorphic on the P+S Technik you'll want to rent or buy a set of 35mm anamorphic lenses. They are not cheap and they are hard to find, so renting is probably your best bet. I've considered this option as well, and if a project warrants it I'll rent, or even buy if I can find the right price. The trick is finding the right price. __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

May 28th, 2002, 04:58 AM	#3
whyjay_nj Posts: n/a	Anamorphic and minmi35 and more... Hi.. Thanks for the reply..looks like the costs are simply adding up. Can you please let me know why we NEED to use the cine lenses after all? The resolution of DV is anyway around 500 lines and we do not really need 2000 lines of resolution on the lens. Can we use any Nikon lens that is used for 35mm still photograhy? They come like 300 to 1000 dollars and have the same zoom range as their higher priced cine zoom lenses. May be on the same lines it may be cheaper to obtain/manufacture a anamorphic adaptor for these small guys.. Any comments are appreciated. We are planning to shoot a feature with XL1s PAL and would dearly like to use mini35 and also get a TRUE anamorphic within 15,000 dollars rig...(incl. camera !). The final release would be on film.. Peace...

May 28th, 2002, 05:24 AM	#4
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	The reason to use the mini35 adapter is to take advantage of the optical characteristics of 35mm lenses, e.g. shallow depth of field. The extra "resolution" of the lens does count for a lot as well, you do see the extra resolution, since 35mm cine glass can be that much better than standard video lenses. An article in the April American Cinematographer illustrates it. I've done my own tests as well. I have yet to test Nikon still lenses on the adapter (this requires the purchase of an optional Nikon mount). You also will not have gears on most still lenses and it will make it a little harder to focus pull without a follow focus. Finding focus will be much harder with the mini35 in place, the depth of field is that shallow. Call ZGC and or go visit them to check it out. They're in Mountain Lakes NJ (I have no idea if they're near you). __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

May 28th, 2002, 05:10 PM	#5
whyjay_nj Posts: n/a	mini35 - 16:9 - ZGC response Hi.. I contacted ZGC. It looks like we need to use a 35mm anamorphic adaptor on a 35mm zoom lens. And some company in Germany manufactures them and they do not have any information about these lenses... Wish I could find a low cost adaptor for Nikon lenses..looks like my project needs to go without the mini35 for now - I badly need TRUE 16:9.. Take care Peace..

May 28th, 2002, 08:47 PM	#6
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	"I badly need TRUE 16:9" Have you considered renting a camera with a native 16:9 CCD block, such as Sony's DSR500 or DSR570? Just a thought that might help. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 28th, 2002, 10:45 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Or a JVC GY-DV700 or a Panasonic AJ-D610. Check your local rental houses. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 30th, 2002, 02:44 AM	#8
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	Correct me if I'm wrong; a scope lens (used for shooting anamorphic 1:2.35 on 35mm) produces a 1:2.66 aspect ratio on a 4x3 CCD since it is not equivalent of the full frame 35mm negative. This means cropping the sides in post to get the correct cinemascope aspect ratio. Cropping a 1:2.66 image down to 16x9 (1:77) in post would be like throwing away half the resolution of the NTSC/PAL DV image. I would not recommend using anamorphic adaptors on 35mm lenses. They are a world of pain to focus. Better to try to find Russian LomoScopes on Ebay. They are rare but great and does not set you back as much. Hawks are rehoused Lomos. Also keep in mind that most Scope lenses are very heavy. It's very hard to do hand held work with most scope lenses. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

May 30th, 2002, 06:18 PM	#9
whyjay_nj Posts: n/a	16:9 - 35mm anamorphic 2:1 lens Hmmm.. I think if we use 2:1 anamorphic lens and use the above crop % (ie if we use the equation for 1:2.35 we get 1:2.66 on the CCD => 88%) This comes about 20% cropping from 2:1 anamorphic on to DV. Pros: Cine lens = better picture V. low DOF = filmic look Cons: Expensive (zoom lens: $8000, 2:1 anamorphic lens : $5000) mini35 rig($9000) Heavy But still it MAY be worth to loose 20% resolution if the DOF CAN make that much difference on the overall look of the project. Or may be use the money to light the shoot professionally and that may have a even better effect - actually I am tending towards this... Decisons... decisions... decisions... Thanks for the information anyway..this board rocks.. Peace..