Synch for 3 cameras in a nightclub music shoot at DVinfo.net

Dan Volker · June 17th, 2002, 01:20 PM

Can anyone tell me if their is an electronic method to link 2 XL1's and one Gl1 so I can use this combo to perform easy 3 camera video of bands playing in a club?
I am planning on having one camera straight back with a zoomed out shot the whole time, one at a 45 degree angle with close up views the whole time, and one roaming camera---this is the real issue for the synch concern I have....If I have to, I can have the roaming camera left on the whole time, even while walking to different locations in the room ( where the walk would be rendering the video useless untill next set up point), but I'd like to know if there is a better way.

Trent Thomas · June 17th, 2002, 02:08 PM

I just did the almost same exact setup which you described, a night club music video shoot with three cameras. I found the easiest, and least complicated way to do it was just to leave all the cameras rolling constantly and find a frame to sync them all up at in post. For example, have someone stand in a place where all the cameras can see them and clap. Then in post just line up all three video tracks to the frame where the person's hands meet. Might not be the most techno-savvy way, but sometimes the easiest way is the best.

Edward Troxel · June 17th, 2002, 03:03 PM

Once the cameras start rolling, DO NOT turn any of them off. This way you can get an hour (or so) of synced footage by syncing a single spot at the beginning of the tape. Then, just cut out all of the dead space.

K. Forman · June 17th, 2002, 03:28 PM

I agree with the others, do not turn off the cams, let them keep filming till the end. As far as synching frames, a simple flash camera is the answer. Snap the flash where all three cams will pick it up. The flash will only last one frame, making it easy to use as a landmark.
Keith

Justin Chin · June 17th, 2002, 04:35 PM

From what I understand the XL-1s actually sends REC and REC PAUSE signals through the DV cable (IEEE1394). This might work for you. You'll need a long firewire cable though.

Barry Goyette · June 17th, 2002, 05:17 PM

I agree that leaving the cameras running is your best bet...however, be aware that the gl1 and xl1s (and even the second xl1s) may not necessarily be in perfect synch relative to their recording speed. I photographed an hour-long dance performance awhile back with 2 cameras (gl1, xl1s), and after synching up the front end of the both clips in FCP, I was a second or so off at the end.

I handled this by resynching my clips after each song (in the timeline) which pretty much cancelled out any discrepancy between the two cameras.

Edward Troxel · June 18th, 2002, 09:11 AM

Using 3 XL-1 cameras with hour + long productions, once synced, the footage has stayed in sync for the full time. We did a 2+ hour Madrigal production and used 80 minute tapes. For the full 80 minutes, the tapes from all 3 cameras stayed in sync. This should not be a major issue.

Dan Volker · June 18th, 2002, 09:34 AM

Thanks for the excellent advice.

One other issue...If I stick to just adding additional GL1's, for a 3 camera total, I can buy the 16:9 lens adaptor, and my Internet only videos will appear more film like---especially if I get a good filter. What do you guys think of 16:9 for the GL1, versus the same potential with the Sony VX 2000( also has this lens adaptor available). I would prefer to have all cameras shoot similar color temperatures, for faster post production---however, I've read that the Sony 2000's could give me "Much Better" low light video, which is certainly an issue in most clubs with lighting which at best, is marginal for the GL1 ( often requiring brightness and Gamma correction in post).
Any thoughts on this?

B. Moore · June 18th, 2002, 01:52 PM

The XL-1 and GL-1 (but I'm not sure about the XL-1s) have a feature where the remote controllers and cameras can be set to the same sensor mode.
They can be set to a 1 or a 2, or both 1 or both 2. You must also set the recieving end, the camera. If your at the correct angle you can get 2 of the camers to start and/or stop at the same time. A lot of practice might even get all 3 cameras in synch.

Canon warns you that if someone else(around you) has a canon and uses a remote and unknown to you, you are on the same code, 1 or 2, your camera will get turned on/off and you may not know why this is happening.

Play with it and remember to have fresh batteries in your remotes.

B. Moore · June 18th, 2002, 01:58 PM

The XL-1 and GL-1 (but I'm not sure about the XL-1s) have a feature where the remote controllers and cameras can be set to the same sensor mode.
They can be set to a 1 or a 2, or both 1 or both 2. You must also set the recieving end, the camera. If your at the correct angle you can get 2 of the camers to start and/or stop at the same time. A lot of practice might even get all 3 cameras in synch.

Canon warns you that if someone else(around you) has a canon and uses a remote and unknown to you, you are on the same code, 1 or 2, your camera will get turned on/off and you may not know why this is happening.

Play with it and remember to have fresh batteries in your remotes.

June 17th, 2002, 01:20 PM	#1
Dan Volker New Boot Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Worth, Fl Posts: 13	Synch for 3 cameras in a nightclub music shoot Can anyone tell me if their is an electronic method to link 2 XL1's and one Gl1 so I can use this combo to perform easy 3 camera video of bands playing in a club? I am planning on having one camera straight back with a zoomed out shot the whole time, one at a 45 degree angle with close up views the whole time, and one roaming camera---this is the real issue for the synch concern I have....If I have to, I can have the roaming camera left on the whole time, even while walking to different locations in the room ( where the walk would be rendering the video useless untill next set up point), but I'd like to know if there is a better way.

June 17th, 2002, 04:35 PM	#5
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	From what I understand the XL-1s actually sends REC and REC PAUSE signals through the DV cable (IEEE1394). This might work for you. You'll need a long firewire cable though. __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

June 17th, 2002, 02:08 PM	#2
Trent Thomas New Boot Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 18	I just did the almost same exact setup which you described, a night club music video shoot with three cameras. I found the easiest, and least complicated way to do it was just to leave all the cameras rolling constantly and find a frame to sync them all up at in post. For example, have someone stand in a place where all the cameras can see them and clap. Then in post just line up all three video tracks to the frame where the person's hands meet. Might not be the most techno-savvy way, but sometimes the easiest way is the best.

June 17th, 2002, 03:03 PM	#3
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Once the cameras start rolling, DO NOT turn any of them off. This way you can get an hour (or so) of synced footage by syncing a single spot at the beginning of the tape. Then, just cut out all of the dead space.

June 17th, 2002, 03:28 PM	#4
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I agree with the others, do not turn off the cams, let them keep filming till the end. As far as synching frames, a simple flash camera is the answer. Snap the flash where all three cams will pick it up. The flash will only last one frame, making it easy to use as a landmark. Keith

June 17th, 2002, 05:17 PM	#6
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	I agree that leaving the cameras running is your best bet...however, be aware that the gl1 and xl1s (and even the second xl1s) may not necessarily be in perfect synch relative to their recording speed. I photographed an hour-long dance performance awhile back with 2 cameras (gl1, xl1s), and after synching up the front end of the both clips in FCP, I was a second or so off at the end. I handled this by resynching my clips after each song (in the timeline) which pretty much cancelled out any discrepancy between the two cameras.

June 18th, 2002, 09:11 AM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Using 3 XL-1 cameras with hour + long productions, once synced, the footage has stayed in sync for the full time. We did a 2+ hour Madrigal production and used 80 minute tapes. For the full 80 minutes, the tapes from all 3 cameras stayed in sync. This should not be a major issue.

June 18th, 2002, 09:34 AM	#8
Dan Volker New Boot Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Worth, Fl Posts: 13	Thanks for the excellent advice. One other issue...If I stick to just adding additional GL1's, for a 3 camera total, I can buy the 16:9 lens adaptor, and my Internet only videos will appear more film like---especially if I get a good filter. What do you guys think of 16:9 for the GL1, versus the same potential with the Sony VX 2000( also has this lens adaptor available). I would prefer to have all cameras shoot similar color temperatures, for faster post production---however, I've read that the Sony 2000's could give me "Much Better" low light video, which is certainly an issue in most clubs with lighting which at best, is marginal for the GL1 ( often requiring brightness and Gamma correction in post). Any thoughts on this?

June 18th, 2002, 01:52 PM	#9
B. Moore Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 181	The XL-1 and GL-1 (but I'm not sure about the XL-1s) have a feature where the remote controllers and cameras can be set to the same sensor mode. They can be set to a 1 or a 2, or both 1 or both 2. You must also set the recieving end, the camera. If your at the correct angle you can get 2 of the camers to start and/or stop at the same time. A lot of practice might even get all 3 cameras in synch. Canon warns you that if someone else(around you) has a canon and uses a remote and unknown to you, you are on the same code, 1 or 2, your camera will get turned on/off and you may not know why this is happening. Play with it and remember to have fresh batteries in your remotes.

June 18th, 2002, 01:58 PM	#10
B. Moore Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 181	The XL-1 and GL-1 (but I'm not sure about the XL-1s) have a feature where the remote controllers and cameras can be set to the same sensor mode. They can be set to a 1 or a 2, or both 1 or both 2. You must also set the recieving end, the camera. If your at the correct angle you can get 2 of the camers to start and/or stop at the same time. A lot of practice might even get all 3 cameras in synch. Canon warns you that if someone else(around you) has a canon and uses a remote and unknown to you, you are on the same code, 1 or 2, your camera will get turned on/off and you may not know why this is happening. Play with it and remember to have fresh batteries in your remotes.