XL1S frame mode at DVinfo.net

Revolver1010 · July 31st, 2002, 05:26 PM

I see a lot of people talking about the frame mode in the XL1S as having less resolution then interlace mode. I was just wondering if anyone knows how much resolution is lost and why exactly is it lost. Also, will buying the 16x manual lens, which they say resolves an extra hundred lines of resolution, somehow make up for it? Sorry for the newbie questions. Thanks in advance!

Revolver1010.

Josh Bass · August 1st, 2002, 12:17 AM

I'm wondering about that extra lines of resolution business. I remember seeing somewhere in a product descritption that the normal DV standard was 500 or 550 lines of resolution, but that "with the ISII lens, you get 600 lines." This means that stock lens or manual, same difference.

Rob Lohman · August 1st, 2002, 02:20 AM

Well... you loose resolution because in frame mode the camera
is doing interpolating. I'm guessing your loosing around 30% of
resolution. Try shooting the same detailed scene (preferably
outdoor with lots of details -> leaves in trees?) and switch from
interlaced to frame mode. Then transfer that to your computer
and watch it on a high quality monitor

Jeff Donald · August 1st, 2002, 05:43 AM

Resolution is measured in two dimensions, horizontal and vertical. Vertical resolution is fixed by your TV system. PAL has 625 lines from top to bottom, NTSC has 525 lines. This will change with the wide spread adoption of HD. Horizontal resolution is limited by many things, lens, tape, CCD, electronic. So that there is standardization, formats have agreed upon specifications and horizontal resolution is limited by these specs.

Jeff

Bill Ravens · August 1st, 2002, 07:51 AM

I think what Jeff is trying to say is that the vertical rez will never exceed 525 lines, regardless of lens performance, because NTSC is limited, by definition, to 525 lines. Regardless of the capture and display limitations, the ISII lens is no different from the manual lens in rez. The ONLY difference is in the focus and stabilization methods.

Revolver1010 · August 1st, 2002, 09:00 AM

>>I think what Jeff is trying to say is that the vertical rez will never exceed 525 lines, regardless of lens performance, because NTSC is limited<<

OK forgetting about broadcast or video and thinking more along the lines of outputting to film wouldn't the PAL version (in frame mode) with the upgraded lens still yield a better picture than the NTSC version with the stock lens in normal mode?

Revolver1010.

Jeff Donald · August 1st, 2002, 09:07 AM

Probably not. The frame mode is an interpolated mode. The gain of 100 lines (625 vs. 525) would not in my opinion offset the resolution loss of interpolation. However, the real answer lies with who does the transfer to film. I would pick the transfer house first. Some prefer PAL, some prefer NTSC, etc. Almost all the transfer houses have developed propiatary methods or software to accomplish the transfer. They will advise you what video method yields the best results with their methods of going to film.

Jeff

July 31st, 2002, 05:26 PM	#1
Revolver1010 Registration incomplete -- contact admin Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 29	XL1S frame mode I see a lot of people talking about the frame mode in the XL1S as having less resolution then interlace mode. I was just wondering if anyone knows how much resolution is lost and why exactly is it lost. Also, will buying the 16x manual lens, which they say resolves an extra hundred lines of resolution, somehow make up for it? Sorry for the newbie questions. Thanks in advance! Revolver1010.

August 1st, 2002, 12:17 AM	#2
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I'm wondering about that extra lines of resolution business. I remember seeing somewhere in a product descritption that the normal DV standard was 500 or 550 lines of resolution, but that "with the ISII lens, you get 600 lines." This means that stock lens or manual, same difference. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

August 1st, 2002, 02:20 AM	#3
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well... you loose resolution because in frame mode the camera is doing interpolating. I'm guessing your loosing around 30% of resolution. Try shooting the same detailed scene (preferably outdoor with lots of details -> leaves in trees?) and switch from interlaced to frame mode. Then transfer that to your computer and watch it on a high quality monitor __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 1st, 2002, 05:43 AM	#4
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Resolution is measured in two dimensions, horizontal and vertical. Vertical resolution is fixed by your TV system. PAL has 625 lines from top to bottom, NTSC has 525 lines. This will change with the wide spread adoption of HD. Horizontal resolution is limited by many things, lens, tape, CCD, electronic. So that there is standardization, formats have agreed upon specifications and horizontal resolution is limited by these specs. Jeff

August 1st, 2002, 07:51 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I think what Jeff is trying to say is that the vertical rez will never exceed 525 lines, regardless of lens performance, because NTSC is limited, by definition, to 525 lines. Regardless of the capture and display limitations, the ISII lens is no different from the manual lens in rez. The ONLY difference is in the focus and stabilization methods.

August 1st, 2002, 09:00 AM	#6
Revolver1010 Registration incomplete -- contact admin Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 29	>>I think what Jeff is trying to say is that the vertical rez will never exceed 525 lines, regardless of lens performance, because NTSC is limited<< OK forgetting about broadcast or video and thinking more along the lines of outputting to film wouldn't the PAL version (in frame mode) with the upgraded lens still yield a better picture than the NTSC version with the stock lens in normal mode? Revolver1010.

August 1st, 2002, 09:07 AM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Probably not. The frame mode is an interpolated mode. The gain of 100 lines (625 vs. 525) would not in my opinion offset the resolution loss of interpolation. However, the real answer lies with who does the transfer to film. I would pick the transfer house first. Some prefer PAL, some prefer NTSC, etc. Almost all the transfer houses have developed propiatary methods or software to accomplish the transfer. They will advise you what video method yields the best results with their methods of going to film. Jeff