Some questions about the XL-1 at DVinfo.net

Elmar Tewes · November 12th, 2001, 10:05 AM

I have some questions about the XL-1 and i hope to get some answers.

1. With the new XL-1s it is possible to shoot in black and white. Is it possible to shoot b/w with the XL-1 ? Or is the image quality the same when i shoot color and change the color of the image to b/w with Premiere or whatever (does it makes a difference if i use a color filter [for b/w] if the image is shot in color and then changed to b/w in Premiere ?)

2. Frame Mode. I transfer DV material (shot in frame mode) from my tape to harddisk. Does it makes a difference what kind of card (DV300/500/Canopus...) or what kind of software (Premiere...) i use ? Or is the uncompressed DV material automatically transfered in frame mode, no matter what kind of hard or software ?

3. And the last one that has something to do with question 2:
After i cut the material, i suppose it remains in frame mode and it is possible to transfer it back to DV tape ?

Chris Hurd · November 20th, 2001, 08:22 AM

Howdy from Texas,

<< 1. Is it possible to shoot b/w with the XL-1 ? >>

No. See the XL1 FAQ on the Watchdog.

<< Or is the image quality the same when i shoot color and change the color of the image to b/w with Premiere >>

The same.

<< 2. Frame Mode. I transfer DV material (shot in frame mode) from my tape to harddisk. Does it makes a difference what kind of card (DV300/500/Canopus...) or what kind of software (Premiere...) i use ? >>

Makes no difference... remember, when it's recorded to tape, Frame Movie video is interlaced just like regular video. Your editing setup can't tell the difference.

<< Or is the uncompressed DV material automatically transfered in frame mode, no matter what kind of hard or software ? >>

DV actually *is* compressed, at a 5:1 ratio. Frame Movie mode is automatically changed to interlace (trhat is, normal video) when it's recorded in the camera.

<< 3. After i cut the material, i suppose it remains in frame mode and it is possible to transfer it back to DV tape ?>>

Trick question! Because there's no difference between frame mode and normal mode when it came out of the camera in the first place. By the time Frame Movie mode comes out of the Digital Signal Processor inside the camera and is recorded to tape, it's a *look* more than anything else. And that's the whole idea. Otherwise it's exactly like normal, interlaced video. To answer your question, after you cut the material, it should still have that Frame Movie mode *look.* Hope this helps,

Elmar Tewes · November 20th, 2001, 08:41 AM

Yeah, i think that helps. Thanks !!

Don Palomaki · November 20th, 2001, 06:08 PM

Another way to look at it is that frame mode is displayed in an interlaced video as is all standard TV. However, the image in the two fields of the frame were captured at the same instant rajhter than being 1/60 (or 1/50 for pal) apart in time. Thus there is no subject motion between the two fields of a frame. And there will be a larger motion jump between the second field of a frame and the first field of the next frame.

Rob Lohman · November 21st, 2001, 04:56 AM

I heard this is not correct.... As I understand it
the XL1 does field deinterlacing + interpolation...
so basically... there should be a time lag....
But since I don't own the camera yet I'm not
100% sure bout all of this :) ....

Regards,

Don Palomaki · November 21st, 2001, 06:04 AM

Not deinterlacing and interpolation in the same sense as used by other programs.

All information for both fields is captured at the same instant. It goes something like this. Green from the even lines, Red and Blue from the odd lines is read from the CCDs at the same exposure instant. Then DSP interpolation is used to supply the missing samples for the odd and even lines (which accounts for the slight vertical resolution reduction in frame mode). This provides the two fields for the frame, and is based in part on pixle samples appropriate to each field. Although the interlace display has the fields 1/60 (NTSC) apart in time, the image in each field was formed from the same exposure, so there is no motion jitter caused by interlace.

Rob Lohman · November 21st, 2001, 01:43 PM

Thanks for your answer! you seem very knowledgable on this!
I have to read it a couple of times to form the pictures in my
head! Thanks!

Bill Ravens · November 21st, 2001, 02:15 PM

most noteably, the "jaggies" on the edge of semi-horizontal field lines are minimized since there is no horizontal displacement of even and odd field lines. As I discovered, however, there are still filed lines visible during blowups.

Ed Frazier · November 22nd, 2001, 08:42 AM

<<1. With the new XL-1s it is possible to shoot in black and white. Is it possible to shoot b/w with the XL-1 ? >>

On the "S" model, save a Custom Preset with the Color Gain turned all the way down, and you have black and white. Switch modes on-the-fly by turning the preset on or off. I think Chris has answered the b/w question for the XL1.

November 12th, 2001, 10:05 AM	#1
Elmar Tewes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Frankfurt Germany Posts: 104	Some questions about the XL-1 I have some questions about the XL-1 and i hope to get some answers. 1. With the new XL-1s it is possible to shoot in black and white. Is it possible to shoot b/w with the XL-1 ? Or is the image quality the same when i shoot color and change the color of the image to b/w with Premiere or whatever (does it makes a difference if i use a color filter [for b/w] if the image is shot in color and then changed to b/w in Premiere ?) 2. Frame Mode. I transfer DV material (shot in frame mode) from my tape to harddisk. Does it makes a difference what kind of card (DV300/500/Canopus...) or what kind of software (Premiere...) i use ? Or is the uncompressed DV material automatically transfered in frame mode, no matter what kind of hard or software ? 3. And the last one that has something to do with question 2: After i cut the material, i suppose it remains in frame mode and it is possible to transfer it back to DV tape ?

November 20th, 2001, 08:22 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Howdy from Texas, << 1. Is it possible to shoot b/w with the XL-1 ? >> No. See the XL1 FAQ on the Watchdog. << Or is the image quality the same when i shoot color and change the color of the image to b/w with Premiere >> The same. << 2. Frame Mode. I transfer DV material (shot in frame mode) from my tape to harddisk. Does it makes a difference what kind of card (DV300/500/Canopus...) or what kind of software (Premiere...) i use ? >> Makes no difference... remember, when it's recorded to tape, Frame Movie video is interlaced just like regular video. Your editing setup can't tell the difference. << Or is the uncompressed DV material automatically transfered in frame mode, no matter what kind of hard or software ? >> DV actually is compressed, at a 5:1 ratio. Frame Movie mode is automatically changed to interlace (trhat is, normal video) when it's recorded in the camera. << 3. After i cut the material, i suppose it remains in frame mode and it is possible to transfer it back to DV tape ?>> Trick question! Because there's no difference between frame mode and normal mode when it came out of the camera in the first place. By the time Frame Movie mode comes out of the Digital Signal Processor inside the camera and is recorded to tape, it's a look more than anything else. And that's the whole idea. Otherwise it's exactly like normal, interlaced video. To answer your question, after you cut the material, it should still have that Frame Movie mode look. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 21st, 2001, 04:56 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I heard this is not correct.... As I understand it the XL1 does field deinterlacing + interpolation... so basically... there should be a time lag.... But since I don't own the camera yet I'm not 100% sure bout all of this :) .... Regards, __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 21st, 2001, 01:43 PM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Thanks for your answer! you seem very knowledgable on this! I have to read it a couple of times to form the pictures in my head! Thanks! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 22nd, 2001, 08:42 AM	#9
Ed Frazier Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 343	B/W with XL1S <<1. With the new XL-1s it is possible to shoot in black and white. Is it possible to shoot b/w with the XL-1 ? >> On the "S" model, save a Custom Preset with the Color Gain turned all the way down, and you have black and white. Switch modes on-the-fly by turning the preset on or off. I think Chris has answered the b/w question for the XL1.

November 20th, 2001, 08:41 AM	#3
Elmar Tewes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Frankfurt Germany Posts: 104	Yeah, i think that helps. Thanks !!

November 20th, 2001, 06:08 PM	#4
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Another way to look at it is that frame mode is displayed in an interlaced video as is all standard TV. However, the image in the two fields of the frame were captured at the same instant rajhter than being 1/60 (or 1/50 for pal) apart in time. Thus there is no subject motion between the two fields of a frame. And there will be a larger motion jump between the second field of a frame and the first field of the next frame.

November 21st, 2001, 06:04 AM	#6
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Not deinterlacing and interpolation in the same sense as used by other programs. All information for both fields is captured at the same instant. It goes something like this. Green from the even lines, Red and Blue from the odd lines is read from the CCDs at the same exposure instant. Then DSP interpolation is used to supply the missing samples for the odd and even lines (which accounts for the slight vertical resolution reduction in frame mode). This provides the two fields for the frame, and is based in part on pixle samples appropriate to each field. Although the interlace display has the fields 1/60 (NTSC) apart in time, the image in each field was formed from the same exposure, so there is no motion jitter caused by interlace.

November 21st, 2001, 02:15 PM	#8
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	most noteably, the "jaggies" on the edge of semi-horizontal field lines are minimized since there is no horizontal displacement of even and odd field lines. As I discovered, however, there are still filed lines visible during blowups.