Shooting the sun with XL1 at DVinfo.net

Alfonso LeFeusch · May 16th, 2003, 09:37 AM

The project I am currently working on requires a direct shot of the bright, afternoon sun. Will I damage my XL1 if I shoot directly at the sun with ND/UV on? The shot needs to last about 30-45 seconds. Is there a lense/filter for the XL1 that I should specifically use?

Any help is much appreciated!

Boyd Ostroff · May 16th, 2003, 02:41 PM

I've taken some shots of sunsets, and the sun through clouds, that look pretty good. But I'd be worried about shooting bright afternoon sun directly.

Exactly kind kind of shot will this be? Is it a wide shot that includes the sun, or a telephoto shot of only the sun? You can use a heavy ND filter (probably stack several), and also may need a higher shutter speed. But the problem will be that to properly expose the sun everything else will be pitch black. The contrast range is way too extreme for video. Or if you try to expose the rest of the scene properly you'll have a huge overexposed white area radiating out from the sun.

I suppose one approach might involve using a graduated ND filter (or several combined) to darken the whole sky. But again, it will be hard to get a blue sky and still see the sun. Tough problem. My best results with sun shots have been just before sunset with the sun very low on the horizon. At this point it's intensity is greatly reduced.

Nigel Moore · May 16th, 2003, 03:02 PM

I guess that another approach would be to shoot the surroundings, and then shoot the sun as you describe and put the two together in post.

Bob Deming · May 16th, 2003, 11:01 PM

Depending on the look that you want depends on the filter you need.

Your best bet is to contact Celestron or Mead. They sell telescopes.

They also sell filters for the scopes and the may just sell you the material so you can make a filter yourself.

Canon does not recommend shooting into the sun and of course they don't recommend letting the sun shine on the EVF.

You might also try to do a search on google.com. I would search for "sun filters" as a phrase and "camera" as a key word.

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=ca...h=&safe=images

Good luck & let us know what happens.

Robert J. Wolff · May 18th, 2003, 04:22 AM

Thirty to fourty five seconds is a long time to keep your camera lens pointed at the sun.

There is a chance that you may over load the register on your chips. When light passes thru the lens to the chip it is stored, processed, and then passed into the system.

Translation: There is some chance that the chips may be destroyed.

You might get away with it, by stacking 2 or 3 ND filters.

My advise is to contact Canon for their opinion.

I own two telescopes. The filter for the sun is quite opague. They produce a heavy brown/red color of sky around the sun. The sun is seen as a medium yellow. I do not believe that this is what you desire in a shot.

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 11:41 AM

Robert,

Been thinking. What you say is correct.

Maybe today I will use my external LCD monitor and just shoot the sun.

One important thing as we know, is to not look at that sucker (sun) to long.

Another thing that needs to be clarified is the position of the sun when it needs to be used for the clip.

D/A is important to capture the correct rays for the clip in that the sun at 9, 12, & 5 GMT is differnt and the rays hitting the lens will creat a dif effect for the shoot.

A 3sec shot could be used in post and have clouds move across it.

But yet in post you could do wonders with Avid or Boris or Photoshop to possibly simulate the same "basic" effect of the rays, etd.

What ya think?

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 11:45 AM

Something else.

Why does Alfonso need such a long exposure when 1 sec can be used in post to represent 1 hours (with good post software).

Nigel Moore · May 18th, 2003, 11:53 AM

After seeing the title of this thread again, I was consumed with inspiration:

Shooting the sun
with the XL1
Oh how I tried
But my CCDs fried

Bob Deming · May 18th, 2003, 12:35 PM

So right!

I haven't gone outside to do this. But with your input, maybe I will stay inside and drink somemore wine.

Robert J. Wolff · May 19th, 2003, 05:34 AM

Bob.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I would not point the camera in the direction of the sun when zoomed in. Wide angle you will be O.K.

Personally, if I were Alfonso, I think that I would just fake it. With a 1000watt lamp, and a yellow gel, adding the appropriate back gound in post should do the job.

Nigel. Your poetry just leaves me.

Bob Deming · May 19th, 2003, 01:33 PM

Ya,

That is the same as I guess I was saying about the D/A of the sun when shooting. But you make more sense.

Fake it>>>

He could even fake a setting sun with the right software.

Use a nice flood light and little D/F and ya got the sun.

Incredable Robert, you solved it for me. I didn't want to go out side and try it.

Regards,

Bob Deming · May 19th, 2003, 01:35 PM

I would add to "fake it" a little bit of !@#$ %^..............................

Stephen Birdsong · May 31st, 2003, 03:23 AM

I have a scene I have to shoot, where two people are walking hand in hand down a road, with the sunset in the background. Knowing the limitations of video due to very little lattitude, what can I do to make this look good?

Stephen

Robert J. Wolff · May 31st, 2003, 12:09 PM

Stephen,

What kind of effect are you trying to achive?

What equipment are you using?

Are they in love?; or, planning a murder?, etc.

If it was my XL-1s, I would open up about 3/4 of a stop, with a telephoto lens at it's longest, to compress the sun to the subjects; e.g.; a strong, large, yellow sun, embracing the couple. Endless variations on a theme are possible.

I would shoot it on a winding road. when you do that, you have classical disinformation. Almost any mood is possible.

Alex Knappenberger · May 31st, 2003, 01:01 PM

I think you guys are a little too worried about it. Just shoot it, stack up some ND filters, and your camera will be fine.

I did a 30 second shot of the sun, with 2 "ND" filters ("ND" because they were dark plastic sunglass peices, that I popped out of a pair of shades...hey, they do the same thing, and they work! :D)

Here's a few framegrabs....

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/212104/thesun.jpg

Good idea on getting a shot of the sun, with it exposed "better" (I say better, because theres really no way to expose the sun, correctly, if you stop down too much, it will just look like a round light...) and then exposing the clouds right, and putting them together in post -- of course it would need to be a tripod shot, for ease in post.

Another idea, would be to maybe buy one of them "star" filters, that give lights like a star pattern, or something. That could make it looks a lot nicer.

May 16th, 2003, 09:37 AM	#1
Alfonso LeFeusch New Boot Join Date: May 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 5	Shooting the sun with XL1 The project I am currently working on requires a direct shot of the bright, afternoon sun. Will I damage my XL1 if I shoot directly at the sun with ND/UV on? The shot needs to last about 30-45 seconds. Is there a lense/filter for the XL1 that I should specifically use? Any help is much appreciated!

May 16th, 2003, 03:02 PM	#3
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	I guess that another approach would be to shoot the surroundings, and then shoot the sun as you describe and put the two together in post. __________________ _________________ Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

May 16th, 2003, 11:01 PM	#4
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	The Sun is Very Hot Depending on the look that you want depends on the filter you need. Your best bet is to contact Celestron or Mead. They sell telescopes. They also sell filters for the scopes and the may just sell you the material so you can make a filter yourself. Canon does not recommend shooting into the sun and of course they don't recommend letting the sun shine on the EVF. You might also try to do a search on google.com. I would search for "sun filters" as a phrase and "camera" as a key word. http://www.google.com/search?as_q=ca...h=&safe=images Good luck & let us know what happens. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 18th, 2003, 04:22 AM	#5
Robert J. Wolff Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Adirondacks of New York Posts: 210	Thirty to fourty five seconds is a long time to keep your camera lens pointed at the sun. There is a chance that you may over load the register on your chips. When light passes thru the lens to the chip it is stored, processed, and then passed into the system. Translation: There is some chance that the chips may be destroyed. You might get away with it, by stacking 2 or 3 ND filters. My advise is to contact Canon for their opinion. I own two telescopes. The filter for the sun is quite opague. They produce a heavy brown/red color of sky around the sun. The sun is seen as a medium yellow. I do not believe that this is what you desire in a shot. __________________ Himself

May 18th, 2003, 11:41 AM	#6
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Cover the EVF Robert, Been thinking. What you say is correct. Maybe today I will use my external LCD monitor and just shoot the sun. One important thing as we know, is to not look at that sucker (sun) to long. Another thing that needs to be clarified is the position of the sun when it needs to be used for the clip. D/A is important to capture the correct rays for the clip in that the sun at 9, 12, & 5 GMT is differnt and the rays hitting the lens will creat a dif effect for the shoot. A 3sec shot could be used in post and have clouds move across it. But yet in post you could do wonders with Avid or Boris or Photoshop to possibly simulate the same "basic" effect of the rays, etd. What ya think? __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 16th, 2003, 02:41 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I've taken some shots of sunsets, and the sun through clouds, that look pretty good. But I'd be worried about shooting bright afternoon sun directly. Exactly kind kind of shot will this be? Is it a wide shot that includes the sun, or a telephoto shot of only the sun? You can use a heavy ND filter (probably stack several), and also may need a higher shutter speed. But the problem will be that to properly expose the sun everything else will be pitch black. The contrast range is way too extreme for video. Or if you try to expose the rest of the scene properly you'll have a huge overexposed white area radiating out from the sun. I suppose one approach might involve using a graduated ND filter (or several combined) to darken the whole sky. But again, it will be hard to get a blue sky and still see the sun. Tough problem. My best results with sun shots have been just before sunset with the sun very low on the horizon. At this point it's intensity is greatly reduced.

May 18th, 2003, 11:45 AM	#7
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Why such a long exposure to the rays Something else. Why does Alfonso need such a long exposure when 1 sec can be used in post to represent 1 hours (with good post software). __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 18th, 2003, 11:53 AM	#8
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	Poetry After seeing the title of this thread again, I was consumed with inspiration: Shooting the sun with the XL1 Oh how I tried But my CCDs fried __________________ _________________ Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

May 18th, 2003, 12:35 PM	#9
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Oh Nigel! So right! I haven't gone outside to do this. But with your input, maybe I will stay inside and drink somemore wine. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 19th, 2003, 05:34 AM	#10
Robert J. Wolff Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Adirondacks of New York Posts: 210	Bob. Sorry for the delay in responding. I would not point the camera in the direction of the sun when zoomed in. Wide angle you will be O.K. Personally, if I were Alfonso, I think that I would just fake it. With a 1000watt lamp, and a yellow gel, adding the appropriate back gound in post should do the job. Nigel. Your poetry just leaves me. __________________ Himself

May 19th, 2003, 01:33 PM	#11
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	Ya! Ya, That is the same as I guess I was saying about the D/A of the sun when shooting. But you make more sense. Fake it>>> He could even fake a setting sun with the right software. Use a nice flood light and little D/F and ya got the sun. Incredable Robert, you solved it for me. I didn't want to go out side and try it. Regards, __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 19th, 2003, 01:35 PM	#12
Bob Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona USA Posts: 93	BTW I would add to "fake it" a little bit of !@#$ %^.............................. __________________ Bob Deming evc@starband.net

May 31st, 2003, 03:23 AM	#13
Stephen Birdsong Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 125	I have a scene I have to shoot, where two people are walking hand in hand down a road, with the sunset in the background. Knowing the limitations of video due to very little lattitude, what can I do to make this look good? Stephen

May 31st, 2003, 12:09 PM	#14
Robert J. Wolff Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Adirondacks of New York Posts: 210	Stephen, What kind of effect are you trying to achive? What equipment are you using? Are they in love?; or, planning a murder?, etc. If it was my XL-1s, I would open up about 3/4 of a stop, with a telephoto lens at it's longest, to compress the sun to the subjects; e.g.; a strong, large, yellow sun, embracing the couple. Endless variations on a theme are possible. I would shoot it on a winding road. when you do that, you have classical disinformation. Almost any mood is possible. __________________ Himself

May 31st, 2003, 01:01 PM	#15
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	I think you guys are a little too worried about it. Just shoot it, stack up some ND filters, and your camera will be fine. I did a 30 second shot of the sun, with 2 "ND" filters ("ND" because they were dark plastic sunglass peices, that I popped out of a pair of shades...hey, they do the same thing, and they work! :D) Here's a few framegrabs.... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/212104/thesun.jpg Good idea on getting a shot of the sun, with it exposed "better" (I say better, because theres really no way to expose the sun, correctly, if you stop down too much, it will just look like a round light...) and then exposing the clouds right, and putting them together in post -- of course it would need to be a tripod shot, for ease in post. Another idea, would be to maybe buy one of them "star" filters, that give lights like a star pattern, or something. That could make it looks a lot nicer.