DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   CineForm Software Showcase (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/)
-   -   CineForm and Sony Vegas 8 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/103609-cineform-sony-vegas-8-a.html)

Cary Lee September 23rd, 2007 03:25 PM

I have Neo HDV 3.11 with 3.3 Codec..Found out that avi footage goes on the timeline but when I try to use preview in player I get a need to purchase Cineform HD codec warning box. Granted this is the demo version of Vegas 8 since I am still waiting for my box to arrive from sony. Anyone else notice this? In addition..it took me to reload Cineform after vegas install and also downloaded the neoplayer.

Cary Lee September 28th, 2007 12:25 AM

Update:

Just upgraded from Neo HDV to NEO HD..Now Preview to player runs fine with this setting. I am also converting my previous HDV footage to HD 1920x1080 and in Vegas 8 it recognizes it without any hiccups.

Peter Plevritis October 3rd, 2007 07:27 PM

Hi David,

Did you have the chance to talk to Dave Hill about this timecode issue? Any progress on this?

Pete

James Campbell October 6th, 2007 09:38 PM

Vegas into After Effects
 
I've been using Cineform Neo HDV to capture footage from Sony V1U and Canon HV20 directly into Cineform avi's and using them in Vegas. I just started using After Effects; If I wanted to export a clip from Vegas and use in AE, can I export as a Cineform avi format to use in AE? Or, given that I have Neo HDV, would I have to export as an m2t file and then import into After Effects

David Newman October 7th, 2007 09:32 AM

NEO gives you direct CineForm AVI support in After Effects.

Mark Duckworth October 18th, 2007 02:51 AM

Updated to 8.0a
 
Just updated to 8.0a. Did the same thing as before. Luckily re-naming the Sony's CFHD.DLL trick still works. Just thought you should know David.

David Newman October 18th, 2007 10:01 AM

That is little sad, why didn't Sony fix their bug?

Bill Ravens October 18th, 2007 11:19 AM

Considering that I, and a few others, made formal inputs to their Tech Support, it would seem they've overlooked this little problem.

Jeff Harper October 19th, 2007 12:07 PM

Vegas user and Neo
 
I edit weddings. What is Cineform (Neo) and how might it benefit me? I went to their site, but it is still unclear to me what the product is for.

David Newman October 19th, 2007 12:52 PM

As weddings are less about image enhancement, you may not benefit as much from CineForm. The CineForm products are design with a quality bias, for use in effects and color grading; which is why we particular appeal to the filmmaking crowd.

Jeff Harper October 19th, 2007 12:57 PM

Thanks David. I am sure my Magic Bullet etc. for use in my highlight clips is sufficient!

David Newman October 19th, 2007 01:12 PM

The issue for you is rendering of you MB ouptut back to M2T, which is very lossy. This is where CineForm can help. It also depended on your final distrubtion format.

Jeff Harper October 19th, 2007 01:26 PM

I use the plug in, not the freestanding version...so in my case there are no re-compression issues...

David Newman October 19th, 2007 01:28 PM

You are always compressing to something. But it you can target your destination format from the Vegas timeline, then you are set.

Joseph Kassana October 28th, 2007 09:00 AM

Just upgraded to Vegas Pro 8...
 
How to I transfer my neohdv to vegas 8?? Do I need a new license?

David Newman October 28th, 2007 09:37 AM

If it is not just working (no license transfers or upgrade required) try uninstalling NEO then reinstalling.

Chuck Biddle November 27th, 2007 01:19 AM

Not licensed
 
I have read through and even after renaming, and even reinstalling the Player, the cfhd.dll file found in Vegas Pro 8 to old i am getting a
"Not licensed for Cineform HD encoding. Please visit...."
It's a new machine with Vista Ultimate 64bit. Any help would be appreciated.

Ian Hay November 27th, 2007 08:02 AM

Chuck -

You appear to have Neo Player: Do you have one of the Neo encoding products, e.g. NEO HDV? David can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you only have the player, then that comes only with a viewing codec, not an encoding codec. By renaming the CFHD.DLL that comes with Vegas 8 to "old", you have disabled the only version of the codec on your system that is capable of encoding.

I thought that the discussion in this thread applied to those who have NEO HD or NEO HDV, and not to those with only Neo Player. Again, David can correct if I'm wrong.

Chuck Biddle November 27th, 2007 11:51 AM

You are correct. I only have the cineform (2.5 or 2.8???) that orginally came with Vegas. I was under the impression, and I believe it worked on another workstation, that by simply downloading the player it would update to 3.3. I may have misunderstood that simply getting the player allowed for the 3.3 codec to be used. Dave??
I'm going to work a project or two from start to finsih with the codecs and see if it's worth the purchase. I decided if I'm going to use it at all just the on the fly conversion is worth the price.

Chuck Biddle November 27th, 2007 12:08 PM

It works
 
I tried one of my other workstations and it WILL render a 3.3 codec AVI from Vegas Pro 8. I believe I did the same thing with renaming the cfhd file. Any other suggestions or maybe it's a Vista 64bit problem on the new computer?

Help

Garrett Low December 31st, 2007 04:56 AM

Vegas 7e problems with NEO HDV avi's
 
I am using NEO HDV to capture and convert HDV 24F from a Canon HV20 as well as an A1. When I open a Vegas project (version 7e) and I begin to pull clips to the timeline Vegas will all of a sudden shut down. Vegas will work fine with the 24F M2T clips from my A1 but when I try to use clips converted to CineForm Intermediate avi's it chokes. I saw some posts about this happening with Vegas 6 and have tried some of the suggestion/fixes for that but nothing is helping. I did download and install the latest version of Neo HDV so that isn't a fix (I did uninstall the earlier version before installing the latese).

I have a ticket into Cineform but have not recieved a reply yet. Any help would be appreciated as I'm tyring to get some editing done for a video I have to do in January.

Thanks,

Marty Baggen December 31st, 2007 09:42 AM

Aspect and Vegas 8
 
After using Vegas 6 for music multitracking and sound work for my video stuff, I have upgraded to Vegas 8.

I'm currently set up with Adobe CS2/Premiere Pro 2 (aka Crash-o-matic), and Aspect 4.3 (I know, I know... I'll upgrade soon).

Is there any downside to using Vegas 8 with my CFHD clips? Is anyone else using this combo, or do I really need to add another breed of Cineform for Vegas to work best in the Cinform world?

I'd really like to fully explore this combo before plunking down the bucks to upgrade my Adobe suite. I'm willing to give up some of the multi program integration of Adobe, for a lean, stable NLE...and of course, the prospect (no pun intended) of working with EX1 footage soon.

David Newman December 31st, 2007 11:13 AM

Vegas 8 will work fine with CineForm clips, however not as fast as Aspect HD allows in Premiere. Some Vegas 8 installations load an older CineForm codec, to prevent this rename the CFHD.dll file in the Vegas install directory. This issue is worse with Aspect HD v5 or NEO v3, as the old Vegas component is not longer compatible.

Marty Baggen December 31st, 2007 11:41 AM

Thanks David. This will be a stop-gap until I go the Prospect route with the EX1. If I rename the file, will Vegas find the current installed codec, or do I need to reinstall Aspect after Vegas 8 is installed?

Since the year is just about gone, it's as good of time as any to say thanks to you and David Taylor for your steadfast support. It's truly a paradigm shift in customer support.

I thought about posting my question at around 11:55pm, just to see if you are able to monitor this board whilst singing Auld Lang Syne.

Thanks again, and Happy New Year.

David Newman December 31st, 2007 12:01 PM

:)

Renaming the file, allows Vegas to find the new codec installed. Only some PCs find the wrong codec, so this is a preventive measure.

Glenn Thomas January 10th, 2008 03:06 AM

Vegas 8 and Neo 4K?
 
Apologies if this has been answered before, I did a search but couldn't find anything. Can 10 or 12bit Neo 4K files be edited using Vegas 8, maybe utilizing it's 32bit float mode? I'm not exactly sure how their 32bit mode works and have not had the time to read up on it. I have a bluescreen/CGI project currently in the writing stage that I would eventually like to edit together at a 2k resolution using Vegas if possible.

Roy Feldman January 10th, 2008 06:21 AM

32bit vegas w/Neo HDV
 
If I am bringing in a converted file from cineform HDV NEO(8 bit) is there any advantage to have sony vegas editing in the 32 bit mode or am I just wasting horsepower?

Bill Ravens January 10th, 2008 09:00 AM

Regardless of where your video source is coming from, 32-bit Vegas can help you, if you use it properly. Almost all videocams record luma values outside of the broadcast luma range of RGB 16-235. Using 32-bit in vegas allows you to bring back values into the useable range. Sometimes, there are values above RGB 255 that are recoverable. But it's not automatic and not all codecs are 32-bit aware, so, you need to keep track of things manually. I use the pluge bars to double check everything.

As a side note, Vegas I/O is only 8-bit, even if you use internal processing of 32 bit floating point math. So, it's quite critical to bring all those illegal values back into RGB 16-235

David Newman January 10th, 2008 09:40 AM

Currently Vegas can do 4K resolution, I think 2K is still the limit. We plan to add 32-bit support to Vegas but it is not there yet.

Allan Black January 10th, 2008 02:39 PM

Very interesting Bill, how and at what stage should you do that? Can you explain 'pluge bars?'

And is 'outside RGB 16-235' what I'm seeing when I capture Panasonic SD with the Pana SD codec, the result being high contrast with shiny blacks with not much detail in them.

When I convert those files with NEO HDV the result is less contrast and the blacks are grayer with some detail in them. Would that be bringing the SD into RGB 16-235?

Sorry Roy I don't mean to convert your thread mate :)

Bill Ravens January 10th, 2008 03:19 PM

My comments stem in direct reference to Vegas 8a.

If you open the Media Generator and drop the Test Pattern/NTSC SMPTE bars on the timeline, you'll notice in the lower right corner, under the red color bar, a series of 3 black bars. These are the pluge bars. Take a look at the definition of plude in wikipedia for a more complete description.

Now, look at the Vegas waveform monitor for this frame. Make sure the WFM is set to STUDIO RGB....see the pluge bars? The middle bar should be on 0% IRE.

If you have an HDV camera that can generate color bars, it will also have a pluge. Import the color bars from your camera and look at the pluge bars in the WFM. It should look the same as it did with the media generator test pattern. If it doesn't use the FX/Sony Levels to adjust computer to RGB or RGB to Computer.....what happens?

I've just touched on some basics here. I really can't spend the time, right now, to explain in more detail. Just remember that NTSC/Broadcast television will show 16-235 RGB It will clip all values below RGB16 or above RGB235. All cameras capture in full Computer RGB, 0-255.

Allan Black January 10th, 2008 05:47 PM

Thanks Bill, bet I'm not the only one who appreciates your explanation.
Cheers.

Glenn Thomas January 10th, 2008 09:47 PM

Ok, great, thanks. Maybe by the time Vegas 9 is out for the 32bit support?

Ali Husain January 11th, 2008 08:58 PM

i don't understand why you can't use neo hd and edit in 2k/10-bit with vegas. i believe 10-bit footage can be edited fine preserving the bit depth. as long as you don't do a lot of cc work:

i've noticed that some of the plugins are not fully float compatible and produce strange results when pushing color.

Mark Duckworth January 17th, 2008 03:48 AM

Just updated to Vegas Pro 8.0b. Same problem. Same solution of renaming the cfhd.dll. Very irritating. But oh,well I know it's not Cineforms fault.

Robert Kennedy January 19th, 2008 01:54 PM

NeoHD, Vegas and 1080p = realtime?
 
What are the minimum system requirements to get real-time 1080p 24fps playback in Vegas 8.0b using NeoHD? Will a Core2Quad 6600 do it?
Am I the only person wanting to edit in 1920x1080 online?
Premiere is no longer an option, I wasted 5 years of my life on that NLE.

Aaron Courtney January 22nd, 2008 02:48 PM

Hey Robert, I see no one has responded so I'll throw in my own experience here. I realize you are asking about the HD, not the HDV product, so be sure to remember that when reading about my experience.

First, you're totally overpowered on the processor side for editing the resulting .avi cineform file. I'm using Vegas Pro 8.0b with a Core2Duo 1.6 (which I will be OC'ing to as high as my RAM can handle) and processor utilization is a complete non-factor. Honestly, I don't see why 100% of people trying to edit AVCHD don't just drop the $200-$250 for NEO HDV and be done with it, LOL! Presto, lack of editing options for AVCHD just disappeared - the format is now a complete non-issue for NLE's. And it's not like the converted intermediate file is stupid huge either. It's roughly 3-3.5x the size of the original .mts. Big deal, a 160GB HDD is like $50 today. Six months from now, that will be the price for the 250's.

Where you need your CPU horsepower is during the conversion process. Assuming you're using decent SATA II drives, the processor is now the limiting factor. Not sure about NEO's ability to fully exploit the quad's - that's a question you'd have to ask them. Even though I'm using a RAID 0 setup, I'm sure it isn't necessary. I highly doubt there is a chip out there that could keep up with even a decent HDD during the conversion process. So IOW more CPU power = faster conversions.

David Taylor January 22nd, 2008 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney (Post 812437)
Not sure about NEO's ability to fully exploit the quad's - that's a question you'd have to ask them. Even though I'm using a RAID 0 setup, I'm sure it isn't necessary.

Thanks Aaron - great post. I thought I'd address the issue of threading. The CineForm encoder is very well threaded, so for operations in which we control we usually peg the CPUs at 100%. In the case of AVCHD, because we recommend a commercially-available AVCHD decoder, there may not be as much threading efficiency from that decoder, so if the CPUs are below 100% that's the reason.

Also, for conversion, a single drive is totally fine. Depending on the number of streams you need to process on the timeline in RT we usually recommend a two-drive RAID 0 configuration, but it's not a requirement.

Aaron Courtney January 22nd, 2008 11:14 PM

For the record, if anyone cares, I'm using v1.6 of CoreAVC Pro for my decoder and my Core2Duo is always max'd during conversion. Wish I could comment on the multithreading capabilities of this decoder WRT a quad core, but alas, I can't...

Robert Kennedy January 22nd, 2008 11:14 PM

THank you for sharing your expierience. I have an Athlon X2 4200+ (2.2ghz dual core) and can only get about 7 fps playback when playing back 1080p footage encocoded by NeoHD.
Anyone else?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:14 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2025 The Digital Video Information Network