CineForm HDMI Recorder Concept Posted

Richard Leadbetter · February 6th, 2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliott Tucker

David, I thought about you when I read first reports on the Nvidia ION platform. A pre-cedia hands-on report included a picture of the tiny motherboard being held in the palm of a hand. I think that report said 10 watts power usage. But the AnandTech report below says 20 watts in a test sample that was running photoshop. I don't think you would need all the connectivity options that were on their test sample. Here is a link to the AnandTech report: AnandTech: NVIDIA's Ion Platform: Performance Preview Here is a link to the PC Perspective report: PC Perspective - NVIDIA ION Platform Review: Death (and Life) of the Netbook

Not really sure how this applies. I doubt even a dual core Atom would have anywhere near enough CPU power to compress into CineForm in realtime - I think even 720p at 30fps would be a miracle! What CineForm want is to do away with x86 architecture for good and have a single 'CineForm on a chip' solution in a bespoke device rather than create their own portable PC.

Bill Koehler · February 6th, 2009, 04:02 PM

I saw the reference to the Ion and checked it out.
Nice platform, but nowhere near the horsepower to be doing realtime video encoding unless possibly the GPU can be used to do it.

One obvious modification the Ion platform would need is an HDMI input port.

David Newman · February 6th, 2009, 11:45 PM

Richard is correct, however ION still might be an interesting short-term step better where we are and where we are going. Richard, the Intel Atom is more powerful than you would think, I've encoded hard 1080p material in Filmscan 1 at 12+ fps on a single 2W Atom core -- true not fast enough damn surprising to have that performance level.

Peter Moretti · February 17th, 2009, 07:14 AM

Here's a twist that still stays true with the intent of the product: How about making essentially a laptop Intensity card? This leaves the screen, processor, OS all up to the user to supply, as most people already have laptops.

I wouldn't worry too much about the added size and weight. The current concept is very nice and compact, but I'd gladly swing a laptop over my shoulder to record HD 4:2:2. But hauling a mini desktop "capture computer" is not really practical.

Richard Leadbetter · February 17th, 2009, 11:58 AM

I'm really not sure that the Expresscard slot has enough power to run an HD capture card, let alone one with a CineForm encoder chip on it.

I ran an Intensity from the WiFi slot on a Mac Mini with a bespoke converter harness and it still required 5v mains from elsewhere. This slot is essentially identical in spec to the Expresscard slot.

Henry Olonga · March 11th, 2009, 03:19 AM

Actually there may be a way.Came across this on the forum the other day.If the encoding is left to the CPU as it is at the moment - a real option....

http://www.imperx.com/files/products...t.pdf?download

Seems to be made for machine vision and frame grabbing but see no reason why it may not work as it can record to AVI in the specs.Stand to be corrected of course but this seems exciting and a real option to a FlashXDR or indeed the Cineform recorder.Two grand could get a really nice portable setup with a laptop LCD for monitoring.

For those in the know - is it only 8 Bit? 24 bit RGB?

Adam Zell · March 11th, 2009, 08:12 AM

Looks like 16bit in jpeg form, 20bit with a YCrCB of a 4.2.2. or in a 24bit in a RGB format. Anyone of those are quite capable of recording off of most our HDV cameras. Now all we need is to get Cineform to adapt to this piece of hardware and we are all set! Although one would need either a laptop with two sets of stripped raid array running on it, or two ExpressCard slots on their laptop. One for this card and the other for external stripped raid arrays. I don't know any laptops that have two express card slots

Henry Olonga · March 12th, 2009, 08:08 PM

Don't see a need for raid unless shooting uncompressedd. I record to my laptop hdd to Cineform as it is.That's the whole point I suppose.To get the bandwidth from 120 MB/s to about 20 MB/s or less.I use an intensity by the way.

Bill Strehl · June 3rd, 2009, 11:51 AM

I keep searching for a mini-itx solution to use with Cineform and the Intensity Pro that is low powered and can do RAID in case I wanted to do some editing with CS4. I just found a board made by J&E which uses an AMD processor:
J&W Technology Limited

I also found a review of it online:
bit-tech.net | Review - J&W MINIX 780G mini-ITX HTPC mobo

I found this when searching for new products announced at Computex, although the above item was released last year. This chipset uses the ATI HD 3200.

I see that there are some new motherboards coming in the next couple months with the AMD 785G chipset which uses the ATI HD 4200 GPU and supports Direct X 10.1.

The only other board I have found so far is the ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX but it only has 2 internal SATA ports.

Has anyone used any of the Cineform products on these?

Jim Long · July 17th, 2009, 10:49 AM

Delete Post

Frank Brodkorb · July 19th, 2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Strehl

I

Has anyone used any of the Cineform products on these?

Correct me if I´´m wrong David, but as far as I know AMD and Cineform are not the best of friends.

David Newman · July 19th, 2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Brodkorb

Correct me if I´´m wrong David, but as far as I know AMD and Cineform are not the best of friends.

Why? We where in the keynote at NAB (few years afo) with the CEO of AMD, they put us on the map with finishing Dust to Glory. However we will use whoever CPUs are fastest, today that is Intel.

Frank Brodkorb · July 20th, 2009, 04:18 AM

I came to that conclusion because in the "requirements" section of your website I newer saw andy AMD CPUs listed.

But I´m glad to hear, that AMDs work as well David.

Wich one would you recomend for Prospect 4k?

Thanks, Frank

David Newman · July 20th, 2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Brodkorb

I came to that conclusion because in the "requirements" section of your website I newer saw andy AMD CPUs listed.

But I´m glad to hear, that AMDs work as well David.

Wich one would you recomend for Prospect 4k?

Thanks, Frank

Frank,

All of them work fine. If you are still selecting, choose more cores and memory speed over clock speed (which is good too.)

David Taylor · September 11th, 2009, 11:50 AM

For everybody that occassionally checks this thread hoping for an update on the CineForm mobile recorder, I want to let you know that a customer of ours - DBOX - is launching a new product called CineDeck: http://www.cinedeck.com/content/#/?type=serial.

CineDeck supports a number of input formats including HDMI, single-link or dual-link HD-SDI, all recorded to 10-bit or 12-bit CineForm files. Form factor is small at 5"x8"x3" and weighs 3 lbs before battery.

But rather than making this post too long, I recommend you check out CineDeck at the link above

February 6th, 2009, 11:45 PM	#423
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Richard is correct, however ION still might be an interesting short-term step better where we are and where we are going. Richard, the Intel Atom is more powerful than you would think, I've encoded hard 1080p material in Filmscan 1 at 12+ fps on a single 2W Atom core -- true not fast enough damn surprising to have that performance level. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 17th, 2009, 11:58 AM	#425
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	I'm really not sure that the Expresscard slot has enough power to run an HD capture card, let alone one with a CineForm encoder chip on it. I ran an Intensity from the WiFi slot on a Mac Mini with a bespoke converter harness and it still required 5v mains from elsewhere. This slot is essentially identical in spec to the Expresscard slot. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

March 11th, 2009, 03:19 AM	#426
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	HD-SDI capture card Actually there may be a way.Came across this on the forum the other day.If the encoding is left to the CPU as it is at the moment - a real option.... http://www.imperx.com/files/products...t.pdf?download Seems to be made for machine vision and frame grabbing but see no reason why it may not work as it can record to AVI in the specs.Stand to be corrected of course but this seems exciting and a real option to a FlashXDR or indeed the Cineform recorder.Two grand could get a really nice portable setup with a laptop LCD for monitoring. For those in the know - is it only 8 Bit? 24 bit RGB?

June 3rd, 2009, 11:51 AM	#429
Bill Strehl Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fulton, MD Posts: 83	possible mini itx board from J&E I keep searching for a mini-itx solution to use with Cineform and the Intensity Pro that is low powered and can do RAID in case I wanted to do some editing with CS4. I just found a board made by J&E which uses an AMD processor: J&W Technology Limited I also found a review of it online: bit-tech.net \| Review - J&W MINIX 780G mini-ITX HTPC mobo I found this when searching for new products announced at Computex, although the above item was released last year. This chipset uses the ATI HD 3200. I see that there are some new motherboards coming in the next couple months with the AMD 785G chipset which uses the ATI HD 4200 GPU and supports Direct X 10.1. The only other board I have found so far is the ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX but it only has 2 internal SATA ports. Has anyone used any of the Cineform products on these?

July 17th, 2009, 10:49 AM	#430
Jim Long Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Springdale, Arkansas Posts: 55	How Close? Delete Post Last edited by Jim Long; July 18th, 2009 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Delete Post

February 6th, 2009, 04:02 PM	#422
Bill Koehler Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA Posts: 760	I saw the reference to the Ion and checked it out. Nice platform, but nowhere near the horsepower to be doing realtime video encoding unless possibly the GPU can be used to do it. One obvious modification the Ion platform would need is an HDMI input port.

February 17th, 2009, 07:14 AM	#424
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Here's a twist that still stays true with the intent of the product: How about making essentially a laptop Intensity card? This leaves the screen, processor, OS all up to the user to supply, as most people already have laptops. I wouldn't worry too much about the added size and weight. The current concept is very nice and compact, but I'd gladly swing a laptop over my shoulder to record HD 4:2:2. But hauling a mini desktop "capture computer" is not really practical.

March 11th, 2009, 08:12 AM	#427
Adam Zell New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Oconomowoc, WI. Posts: 9	Looks like 16bit in jpeg form, 20bit with a YCrCB of a 4.2.2. or in a 24bit in a RGB format. Anyone of those are quite capable of recording off of most our HDV cameras. Now all we need is to get Cineform to adapt to this piece of hardware and we are all set! Although one would need either a laptop with two sets of stripped raid array running on it, or two ExpressCard slots on their laptop. One for this card and the other for external stripped raid arrays. I don't know any laptops that have two express card slots

March 12th, 2009, 08:08 PM	#428
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Don't see a need for raid unless shooting uncompressedd. I record to my laptop hdd to Cineform as it is.That's the whole point I suppose.To get the bandwidth from 120 MB/s to about 20 MB/s or less.I use an intensity by the way.

July 20th, 2009, 04:18 AM	#433
Frank Brodkorb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Stillwater Oklahoma Posts: 39	I came to that conclusion because in the "requirements" section of your website I newer saw andy AMD CPUs listed. But I´m glad to hear, that AMDs work as well David. Wich one would you recomend for Prospect 4k? Thanks, Frank

September 11th, 2009, 11:50 AM	#435
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	CineDeck mobile recoder announced For everybody that occassionally checks this thread hoping for an update on the CineForm mobile recorder, I want to let you know that a customer of ours - DBOX - is launching a new product called CineDeck: http://www.cinedeck.com/content/#/?type=serial. CineDeck supports a number of input formats including HDMI, single-link or dual-link HD-SDI, all recorded to 10-bit or 12-bit CineForm files. Form factor is small at 5"x8"x3" and weighs 3 lbs before battery. But rather than making this post too long, I recommend you check out CineDeck at the link above