Adobe to offer Cineform for free?
 

If I read this article right (see link), it appears that Adobe is essentially going to offer the Cineform HDV plugin for free to Premiere Pro 1.5 owners. That's a pretty impressive step which should further solidify Premiere's lead as the most promising way to do high-quality, real-time editing of HDV material. Top that off with the Sony rep's remark that 3-chip HDV cameras are likely to put a dent in HDCam sales, and it looks like we're finally on the verge of seeing the HDV format really take off. Looks like I'm going to need some extra money for equipment and software next year...

http://premiere.digitalmedianet.com/...e.jsp?id=28667

Although you will hear a more official details from CineForm soon, there have been enough leaks out there that I can confirm that some of CineForm's technology has been licensed to Adobe for HDV support. We at CineForm are very happy about this. This will only assist professional products like Aspect HD maintain their position as highest performing HDV editing tools.

Thanks David, I was hoping we'd hear from you about this. If you can provide any further comments about how what Adobe is offering is different from the full Aspect HD plugin, that would be great...otherwise we'll wait for the official announcement.

:-)

Cool! That means we'll get Connect HD for free. Love it.

They are probably in response to Pinnacle shipping Liquid Edition 6 with native HDV. There is a competitive upgrade from Premiere for $299 (which is $100 more than the upgrade from LE 5.5). So, there is some market pressure.

Not just Pinnacle, but also Avid, Ulead, Sony, Canopus, etc. In any case, it sounds like Adobe felt it was time to incorporate HDV support as a standard feature of Premiere Pro, which certainly makes sense. Describing what they're doing as incorporating Connect HD sounds more accurate than the way I entitled my original post.

By the way, I just found out today that the next version of Canopus' HDV editing software will allow both "native" HDV editing or use of their own custom "HQ" codec. The latter will have a variable bit rate setting from 45-250 megabits per second and will be more processor-efficient than native editing, so it sounds like it's similar to what Cineform is doing. Nice to have both options in one program, but it's expensive with a current retail price of $1299 for just the editing software (with limited DVD production ability).

P.S. Okay David, now I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what Canopus is doing, contrary to what I said a few weeks ago about not commenting on competitors' products. My bad.

Kevin,

There are similarities in using a higher performing codec (quality and speed) in place of native MPEG editing. The Canopus HQ codec probably has more in common with AVID DNxHD's 8bit codec, given that they are both DCT based. Canopus at least went with a variable bit-rate (unlike Avid) which is a point in their favor. CineForm went with variable bit-rate wavelet compression, as wavelets typically outperform DCT codecs by a reasonable margin (try putting "Wavelet vs DCT" into google for lots of information.)

David,

Any news yet on Adobe offering CineForm for free? Time frame maybe? Still on track?

Best of luck!

Thanks,

Mike

Sorry, all that information is under NDA.

Stay tuned to cineform.com in the next couple of weeks for several updates.

Thanks David!

Old thread, but I think you have already figured out that Adobe won't make the expected "Late in the year" release date.

Rumor is now: "Before the end of January".

That's odd considering the latest full version of the Cineform plugin is already available, and since that's the one I'd really want I'm not all that worried about Adobe's version. Now that I understand there's a difference, I'll just track what Cineform is offering directly.

If I worked for Cineform, I would make darn sure that there was something I could offer Premiere Pro users that Adobe was not licensing. That is, if that is what Adobe is doing.

Any new word on the Adobe-Cineform offer David. Would really appreciate anything you can provide me.

Machineit@bellsouth.net

Thanks---Mike Teutsch

I can only annouce release dates after Adobe annouces. Getting closer though. Of course you don't have to wait for FX1/Z1 support if you buy Aspect HD. :)

But if Cineform does not offer a discount to Premiere Pro user's, it would mean that anyone could have it for the same price. And that is not fair. We paid for Premiere Pro and expect it to handle HDV. And it will. So that makes Aspect HD an upgrade, not a complete program that we must have.

There has to be some discount from Cineform. Look at it this way. the Premiere Pro plugin does some of the same things that Cineform does, and they use Cineform's technology to do it. Or so we have heard. That means Aspect HD is incrementally better, but not 100% of it is necessary, since we already have some of the capabilities.

A discount would entice people to move up. No discount says that Cineform doesn't care, and doesn't need us. They need to show some love, so we know it is OK to send them our hard earned money.

Just the thought that there might be a discount means we would be wrong to buy it now. We must wait. Which is sad for those with a trial running out. Or already expired.

We dropped the price on Aspect HD from $999 to $499 for this very reason -- this price drop happened at the annoucement of Adobe licensing of some our technology. Unfortunately the Adobe release took a little longer than we had hoped, so some of you have gotten used to the $499 price (it has only been 6 weeks), but effectively we are offering you the discounted price today. The Aspect HD price WILL NOT change at the release of Adobe's HDV support. We feel it is correctly priced for those wishing for the additional performance, features, support and benefits of becoming a CineForm customer (we have beening provided regular free enhancements, which should continue, Adobe can't offer this at the rate a small company like CineForm can.)

David,

Thanks for the very fast reply! Due to my own ignorance or naiveté, I too thought that Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 did HDV, as well as DV. I then found out that it not only does not do HDV, but it also does not do SD. I have the JVC JY-HD10, and I want to use some of the SD and HD features.

Indulge my ignorance, but is Cineform Aspect just a means of capturing HD, (and SD I hope), or do you then have to edit thru Cineform. I have invested much of my money and time in Pro 1.5, and training for it and do not need to see that go to waste. I have looked at the Cineform website and can’t determine for sure if they just offer HD capture update software or full editing software.

Will the Cineform software Abode offers be all that I will need into the future, or will it leave me still needing a full Cineform Aspect HD purchase again later. I would be willing to spend the money for an upgrade as suggested in the previous post, as I would then know that I was done spending my hard earned and as yet unable to recoup money?

I guess it come down to this, what is the difference in what Adobe will, (or will not) offer and what Cineform sells for $499.00. Do I need to learn any different editing systems, or just capturing?

Thanks very much again for your help and I do really appreciate being able to ask you these questions. Cineform should pay you overtime!

Also: To those wanting to learn Adobe Premiere Pro, I strongly endorse the Total Training CD training set. It’s about 7 CD and it is the best training series I have ever seen. It has taken me from the dark into the light!

Many-many thanks--Mike

Mike,

Aspect HD is very like a software version Canopus or Matrox hardware acceleration solution; i.e. the usage of Premiere is nearly indentical but with much higher performance. Aspect HD doesn't replace any exiting Premiere features, but it does add some new features. Learning to use Aspect HD is easy. We aren't far away from when we can describe the differences in more detail, but performance will be a key distinguishing feature.

Thanks for the "overtime" comments; where not that sort of company -- I'm here because I want to be here. :)

David,

Thanks for the info. I know that a lot of us are extremely happy with Aspect HD. I certainly am floored by the wonderful realtime experience. I just wanted to know that I was not jumping the gun and costing myself some small discount to be offered the day after my credit card was charged.

This is getting expensive. In the last month or so:

FX1 = $4305 with all of the extras
HDTV = $4152 with tax and delivery
HD DVD = $330 with extra long cable and delivery

And now $499 for Aspect HD

It is getting tougher and tougher to justify expenses. But I am very happy with the product and have no choice but to buy it.

Actually, I don't have a copy of Audition or Encore because I already owned Premiere Pro and After Effects Pro when the collection came out. So maybe I will take advantage of the just spending an additional $300 to get them and sell off the extra Premiere Pro to make up some of the difference.

Do you know if they come in their own box like from Adobe, or are they OEM packages?

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Gotz : David,
Actually, I don't have a copy of Audition or Encore because I already owned Premiere Pro and After Effects Pro when the collection came out. So maybe I will take advantage of the just spending an additional $300 to get them and sell off the extra Premiere Pro to make up some of the difference.

Do you know if they come in their own box like from Adobe, or are they OEM packages? -->>>

We have an OEM agreement with Adobe, so the Adobe bundle will use OEM packaging, but they are otherwise full versions.

David,

I see now that you are offering Cineform in a bundle with Premiere Pro, Encore, etc. for 7 something. Less than I have already spent for Premiere Pro 1.5, Encore 1.5, and After Effects, and already registered!

What is the new info on Adobes offering of Cineform? Can I break out your bundled Adobe products and sell them to recoop my loss or how is this going to work. Looks like it went in reverse!

Thanks--Mike

The three software packages bundled with Aspect HD are OEM version. There are not to for separate sale, but they are full versions (without the fancy enternal packaging.)

David,

Maybe I didn't quite make my post clear. Is the Adobe offering of CineForm still going through? We are into February now and you are offering their software bundle, but they are not offering yours yets? I bought my Encore and Effects while awaiting the Adobe CineForm release!!!!

Also, does your software support my JVC CU-HV1 editing deck?

I don't buy pirated software, but I can sure see why other people might do just that! It is frustrating to spend the money only to find out you may have been taken for a long ride on a short road. It is of course Adobe who appears to be dragging their feet and not your company, but the result is the same. Sometimes you feel like scraping all you have and going to someone else. At this time I am very disapointed with Adobe!

Thanks David,

Mike

Mike,

Adobe has said they are testing the new release. They just haven't said when they expect it to be finished.

I suggest that you buy Aspect HD anyway. It is way too easy to use, and you will only be dissapointed with the lack of realtime effects in Premiere Pro when Aspect HD gives them to you easily.

Just my $0.02

Steven,

Thanks, I think that is what I will do. Doesn't sound good to me that Adobe is TESTING! This is obviously not a full CineForm version then, and the last thing I need is bugs!

Again thanks Steven, but don't tell me it is simple or easy, you didn't try starting to learn all of this at 57! HA! I'd like to have the fast processor in my head as well as the computer. I need to find a 6 year old to learn it for me? Knew I should have played more Pong when I was younger!

Best of luck to you,

Mike Teutsch

Mike,

You are correct. I didn't buy my first camcorder until I was 48. Just 4 years ago. But I like to keep up with the kids. It is fun because I can afford the toys many of them can only dream about. Making six figures on a boring job has at least that one advantage.

I didn't get into this until Premiere 6.0 came out.

It really is easy to use Aspect HD. You will be quite pleased.

Very simply, you download and install it. Then use a program called HDLink (comes with Aspect HD) to capture the video. It will convert the M2T to a Cineform AVI for you. Just use the Medium (default) setting. If you want to have the M2T files as well, it will do that too. They are handy for archiving instead of the larger AVI files.

Then import that AVI into a project created in Premiere Pro using the newly installed Cineform presets.

Put the video on the sequence. Look! No red line. No need to render. Press the play button. It plays smoothly. It is a miracle! I was shocked at first, now I hardly notice.

So, as long as you use the Cineform supplied effects, you stay realtime.

The only problem is what to do next. The export to WM9 takes about 12 times realtime on my system. Or more. But once I have a WM9 file I can burn it to a DVD-ROM (I use DVD+RW) and then play it on my 60" Sony HDTV using the AVelLinkplayer2.

Easy. Time consuming export to WM9, and I usually do that overnight, but the procedure is simple enough.

There is no question that Premiere Pro will not have the entire Aspect HD program in it. There is an explanation of this on the Cineform page, towards the bottom, here:

http://www.cineform.com/products/AspectHDPPro.htm

Steven,

You say to download it, but does it come with a manual? God I'm old, just like to have that book in my hand. I do want the disc eventually and they will send that later! Guess I will just do it now! Sure you don't want to work for CineForm sales?

Have you ever used their support? David is usually very fast to get back on answers to questions online here, but I could wear out my welcome quickly!

Lastly, do you know if it supports my CU-VH1 editing deck?

Thanks---Mike

Yes it supports the CU-VH1 editing deck. We use one all the time for testing.

David,

Thank you David. I am at your site on my other computer right now buying CineForm. Wish me luck!

Mike

By the way, it comes with a fine PDF file that explains it all. Even which native Premiere Pro effects you can use and stay realtime.

I would love to work for Cineform, but I doubt they can afford me. :-)

Take a look at my HDV page and you will see them prominently displayed at the top.

Well I bought and downloaded it and guess what? Yes, a problem! It will not accept my activation code. I have an email in to support and I am waiting for a reply.

I ordered it and paid for it on my regular computer, and then downloaded it from and to my editing computer. Copied the login info. I would think that it gets its system info from the download computer, during download, but the code will not work. I bought the editing computer just for doing video, and would not even have it connected to the internet, except that you have to anymore to do all of the registrations, activations and such. Do not even have an email account set up on it.

How does this sound? HP, running XP Media addition, 3.4 Ghz Pentium IV with Hyper-threading, 1 Gig ram, two 250 Gig hard drives(I put an additional one just to hold video and audio files), graphics card with 128mb DDR video memory, front panel has 7 drives on it--(DVD-CD writer, DVD-CD rom, standard floppy drive, SmartMedia, MMC/SD, CompactFlash, and MS/MS Pro) That about covers it! OK, no Zip drive, but they are out dated and I have them on other computers.

I am still waiting for support. I did check out your site, but could not open your video, I got only raw code. What program do I need to see your video. I thought I had them all, but I guess not. I see you like Disney World, and I live just about 150 miles away.

Appreciate your help and guidance,

Mike

My videos are all viewable in Microsoft Media Player. You should not have trouble viewing them.

As for the activation code, did you follow the instructions carefully? I believe that they send you a code, you go to the web site, you give them a number from the screen, put in the code they gave you when you purchased the software, and then they send you an email with the activation code.

I do not believe that they just send an activation code. Unless something has changed.

Check the PDF file. It is all in there.

Keep us posted.

Yep, you need to give them a code from the computer you will use after it is loaded.

Yep, follow all directions to a tee.

Dave

Thanks, will try again. Came up with a new activation window and was different than the file. Thought it was new and maybe is but not yet supported. Will try the other way now.

Thanks guys--Mike

Actually that is not right! They sent me the activation code by email before I even tried to activate it. It should have been right. Was just a plug-in. They probably got it from the computer I was contacting them for the buy on, and not the one I downloaded it to.

Mike

The registration has changed. There is no longer even a visit web-site tab. I can't follow the directions in the manual. I will just have to wait for assistance! Will have to see if the code is wrong or is from the other computer. I can't deactivate it from this one, as it was never loaded to it.

Thanks anyway guys.

David Where Are You?

You have been emailed your serial number, this is different from your activation key. The activation procedure is covered in the PDF manual. Bascially your serial number + system code = an activation key (which we send to you when you visit http://www.cineform.com/register.html.) It is pretty easy to do (and no you don't have to have the editing system on the internet.) Remember you can use the product for 15 days without activation. You should get an email helping you out shortly.

I think I have it now. I tried to open Aspect HD and got nothing. Opened Activate Aspect HD and got the screen with activation and no visit web site. Finall gave up and just went to open Adobe Premiere 1.5, and that is when I got the correct activation screen with the visit web site tab. Sent off as required.

Like I said, new computer, and 57 year old brain!!!!

Thanks guys

"How does this sound? HP, running XP Media addition"

I thought that was for HTPC? Any real advantage to having that over winXP pro?