CineForm questions and problems with HDV
 

Reading the features for the Aspect 2.5 a possibility occured to me of using one FX1 and a DV camera with the intention of producing a DVD in 4x3. USe the pan and scan capabilities to get potentially two camera views from the one FX1 file to go with the DV file? An effective three camera shoot with two cameras? I am waiting for my FX1 and was going to use as a DV camera for two camera shoots with the FX1 as the main DV camera. Now I am not sure whether there would be an opportunity to use my DV camera as the main and the FX1 as the full stage camera and by copying the track create a third camera view by pan/scan/zoom!!! I will certainly try this when I get my FX1 ( hopefully next week, suppossed to be due now on the 5 Dec)

Ron Evans

HDV Problems!
 

David, I hope you can help me here. I have a few problems and I wish I could call someone. I'm just hanging here.

First, I'm shooting with a Z-1. I use Vegas 6.0 and Cineform HD Connect 1.6. For some reason, when I capture and convert in one operation, sometimes the capture hangs and it never finishes (or even starts sometimes) the progress indicator. I figured that if I do a two step capture then convert, it works. My problem is this:

When I insert the new Cineform AVI into the Vegas 6 timeline, I get several problems.

First, for some reason the audio and video tracks are different lengths.

Second, when I preview the project in the Vegas preview screen, the audio and video track don't appear to be sync'd. If I move the audio track to sync with the video track, I get problems with the audio - I guess I would call it artifacting. It pops and makes ungodly crackles. It seems that the video has a lag to it. It plays what appears to be real time for about three seconds and then it kind of hesitates for a second and then it jumps back to real time. The audio AND video were obviously not sync'd.

Could this be due to compression?

I also did a seperate recording on a 24 track hard drive. I had the same problem with sync'ing that. I could sync it to the audio track of the AVI but then it didn't match the video. If I syc'd the 24 tracks to the video, It didn't match the audio on the avi.

Any suggestions?

Jeff

Please file a trouble ticket as I have far fewer suggestions than the tech support team. To help me (and support) understand the problem we would need information about your PC (speed, memory etc), as the fact you are having difficulties with real-time capture/conversion could be the clue. Get RT capture/conversion working and everything else should be fine. That said the two pass capture then convert can have sync issues if you capture over scene boundaries -- this is being addressed in the next free upgrade (automatic scene splitting from M2T file data will be supported.)

Some output HDV play mode questions
 

Okay, got some questions. I have taken my HDV and brought in via the
Cineform CFHD format, and yep, it took about 40 gig per hour.
So am trying to figure out output formats, space and players.

So, lets start with DVD output. I have two choice, letterbox or anamorphic.
So, what are the things to consider? Is a anamorphic DVD better to use than a letterboxed? Would one see difference in quality on a PC screen?
TV Screen? Any difference in output file sizes?

Okay, now on to HDV. So, I assume the best way to edit is in CFHD format, rather than m2t? Now, once this is done, it is output time question. I am looking at buying the I/O Data machine. Does it play both WM9 and m2t formats? At max encoding for an hour of data, what are the file size differences? Can the I/O Data network in the wm9 or m2t file so it would not be restricted in size with current optical media?

Dave

Some of these questions go beyond CineForm tools but I'll answer what I can.

Anamorphic DVDs are best as 16x9 is encoded at 720x480, whereas letterbox the active 16x9 picture is encoded only using 720x360 pixels. So the anamorphic DVDs have 33% more pixel information. This results in visible resolution differences when displayed on 16x9 TVs (and on computer screens.)

Technically, if you where worrying DVD space, letterbox encoding will require fewer bits.

I have used the I/O Data HD DVD player and it seems to work well on WM9 and M2T data, but I haven't done extensive testing.

HDV Interlace output problems--workaround?
 

I capture 16:9 HDV footage from my Sony HDR-FX1 to an m2t file using HDLink. If I now burn that same m2t back to tape, the output looks fine. [Using HDLink 3.2 build 36]

But if I convert to AVI and import into PPro 1.5.1 (or capture directly inside of PPro), when I then export to tape (or save to m2t and burn), there are severe interlace problems and flicker on rapidly moving objects (like heads and hands). The PPro project is 1080i, e.g. no rescaling. I am testing with no transitions, titles, etc.---merely capturing and then reburning the same video.

This appears to be an Adobe issue, but how can I work around it? The results are totally unacceptable.

Nothing more that 1 hour timecode ? And how to dub HDV ?
 

Hello :)

I have trouble with several HDV-Tapes that have Timecodes larger that 1 hour.
When trying to locate lets say 2:02:00:00 the Z1 goes forward all the tape and of course doesn't find the spot. I use Premiere 1.51 with that cineform codec.
When I ignore the hours by typing TC in by hand it locates correctly.

So I guess, there's a bug in Premiere or Cineform codec.

The bad thing is: How should I Batch-Capture the following tapes, that are encoded by increasing hour as the tape numbers increase.
For example tape 5 starts at hour 5, as it has been through all my editing years.

If the cruel truth is: Yes thats a bug. No way to change that ... hmmm ... how can I LOSSLESS copy a HDV Tape ?

If I capture the whole tape, keep the MPG stream (like with DVHS) and the offer that file to the cineform-export function ? Would that make me a lossless copy of the tape with a zero hour timecode ?

Thanks for every help or idea!

Peter :)

Non-zero start timecoded tape are not supported for batch capture -- although using Aspect HD the capture tools in Premiere will correctly mark the timecode to reflect the original tape timecode. These a timecode search function missing in the Sony's deck control functions that makes batch capture difficult for tapes striped at high timecodes. It is on our to-fix list.

Thank you for the quick answer.

So I have to change my workingstyle.

Somehow I hoped, that it could be a limitation of the "free" cineform codec, that comes with Premiere 1.51 and Aspect would fix it :)

Peter :)

Aspect HD fixes many, many things over the free sample Adobe offers, but that unfortunately is not one of them (yet.)

DVFilm 60i to 24p HDV conversion
 

I tried converting from HDV 60i to 24p using DVFilm when I first got my HVR-A1 and it didn't work because you need to have ConnectHD or AspectHD installed in order for DVfilm to be able to write 24p HDV using the Cineform codec. Anyway, after not being that impressed with the Cineframe 24 / HDlink 24p with pulldown removal 24p capture, I thought I'd give DVFilm another try.

All I can say is OMG! It just looks wonderful! Beautiful full resolution HDV 24p! Anyone who is after full resolution 24p from a Sony camera should give this a try. It's the look I've been trying for for several years now!

OK, I'm stepping through individual frames now and I see what's going on and what the trade-off is between Cineframe 24 / Cineform 24P pulldown removal capture and doing the same 24p conversion with DVFilm. With the Cineframe24/Cineframe24p pulldown removal method, every fifth field is dropped. This gives you better looking stills but less smooth motion. With the DVFilm 24p conversion, every fifth field is blended in. This gives smoother motion, but as you step through frames you can see the field-blended composite image every second frame. Neither approach is all that great after all.

HDV out through firewire to TV in real time
 

I downloaded Cineforms latest trail and also Main Concepts.

I opened up a Main Concept project, set it to 1.333 and imported a Cineform AVI file. Not only did it play on the timeline in real time but I could even view what I was doing out to my DV camera and then to the TV?

Now Im wondering why when editing in HDV, Cineform cannot do this as well?

Paul

Try doing 3-4 streams of HDV and doing the same thing. Generally RT encoding to DV takes far more CPU than simply playing out to a graphics card that has a S_Video (for your TV) or component HD output. Aspect HD will allow multiple RT streams out through these now inexpensive graphics cards. This is the workflow CineForm believes to be best.

Fair enough...
I just put 3 clips in three pip windows, it plays out still but has to render. Just made me wonder thats all. The CPU is only on 50% when it plays throught the 3 clips though.

Paul

HDV 720p to DV576i
 

What is best workflow for optimum results to make the conversion of a HDV Cineform 720P back to the standard SD 576i format?
I tried to load a CineformAVI into PremierePro 1.5.1 and saved as a DV 720x576 file. The result of the 5 sec test-file looks pretty good.
But maybe there are far better ways to do it?
From HD progressive to SD interleased in general...

First of the HD to SD scaling is better if you are using Aspect HD with Premiere Pro. Fortunately scaling from a progressive source is a lot easier to achieve high quality results. Where are you looking you final SD outputs to be, DVD, DV etc?

Hi David, I'm about to have my JVC GY-HD100e and I would like to shoot in HDV 720P25 so my new projects are HD ready in case they need it afterwards. For now, the most projects will be delivered on a SD-DVD to play in a normal DVD player.

I'm playing around with the trial of AspectHD and the testfootage I took with the camera, to look for the best and quickest workflow for my current and future projects. I must say the results in HDtoSD are stunning. The quality is indeed better then the native SD shots with my PD-150.
I have to try with faster moving video to see how well the progressive to interleased is working.
Does anybody has some footage to show?

HDV Plugin for Premiere 6.5
 

Are there currently any HDV plugin solutions that will work with 6.5? I prefer the interface and would like to continue into the HDV world.

We used to sell a Premiere 6.5 plugin for HDV, but everyone (else) seems to have moved on to Premiere Pro. Which is about to have it third major release (four if you count 1.5.1), that means you are now at least 4 versions behind. We currently support most HDV features in PPro 1.0 and 1.5, but we recommend 1.5.1 for the best support with Aspect HD. Once you see Premiere Pro 2.0, you might consider the upgrade.

Oh, you're such a tease, David. :) Better not let Adobe see this...I understand their non-disclosure police have been diligently trying to stifle discussion about PPro 2.0 before its release. But I for one have been quite eager to hear more details about it.

Hdv->cineform->hdcam
 

I have to transfer an edited project made with cineform Aspect /premiere to HDCAM VTR. I would like to know if it is possible to add an AJA XENA to my system and to be able to play the edited avi through HD-SDI output;
or do I have to buy Prospect just to playback the file?

Matteo

Prospect HD Edit will support the AJA Xena card, but not Aspect HD. If you only have the one project you could export to uncompression and use another tool for the HD-SDI playback (you will need a fast RAID, and to upres to 1920x1080.) If this is going to be part of you regular workflow a Prospect HD Edit install is likely a good investment (a $1500 upgrade from your Aspect HD license.)

HDV test clips
 

Anyone have or can't point to some sample raw HDV clips that I can download. (I have a T1, so bandwidth is not an issue).

I'm evaluating an HDV workflow using CFHD. I have to figure the budget numbers, and before I do I'd like to try editing/playing with some test clips.

Thanks in advance.

Pete

Peter: I have a few seconds of native HDV footage at the following link you can use as you see fit. This is from a Sony FX1 camera at 1080i resolution.

http://videomem.com/HDV/encoding_tests/HDV-1080i.m2t

For comparisons of the FX1 run in both DV and HDV mode with resulting footage encoded to various output formats, see this link:

http://videomem.com/HDV/encoding_tests/comparison.htm

Thanks Kevin.

Cineform HDV in SD PPro project?
 

Hi,

Just wondering if you can capture HDV using Cineform 4.0, and then bring that footage into a DV 720 x 480 (or SD/DV wide screen) project so you can do 'digital zooms' and stuff like that?

I'm assuming if you could do it in PPro, you could do it as well in AE?

Jim

Yes that works fine.

I would recommend using After Effects for this rather than Premiere Pro. AE has a better scaling engine, whereas PPro's scaling looks too soft. Once you've written DV files from AE, they can be imported into PPro for editing.

HDV Editing and Problems
 

Maybe, this is just happening to me...but, I really need some help:

Background info:
a) System specs: Intel Core Duo 2.0ghz, 1GB Ram, nVidia 7800 256mb.
b) Applications: Adobe Production Studio, Aspect HD, Vegas 7.0

Problems:
a) Capture: I captured footage in Premiere Pro via Aspect HD and everything seems to be working OK. However, if I play the file in Premiere Pro I get a grinding audio noise. But, if I play the file in either Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic, there are no audio issues at all. SO...is something wrong with Premiere Pro or ....?
b) Editing: As expected, my system is a little slow for editing HDV. That's fine. But, are there any reccomendations as to hard-drive configuration? I have plenty of external 7200rpm drives. Since, I am on the road and work at various studios, I need to be on the laptop. But, any and all optimization tips would be much appreciated.
c) Export: Export to WMV HD always gives me an error (see earlier thread). I have filed a support ticket and am currently in the process of receiving an answer.

So...basically I have a lot of issues at all three steps, while using Premiere Pro. But, when I use Vegas 7.0, all these problems are non-existant. Should I use Vegas 7 for HDV editing? If so, would Connect HD beneficial?

Please send these questions to support -- but I'll have a brief go.

a) confirm that you audio captured fine and works in Premiere. Check the waveform. Play the audio alone. On slower systems the audio can have startup pops and the video and audio compete for system resources.

b) Using an external 7200rpm is a good idea for a laptop. As laptops tend to only have USB2 or FireWire 400 these is little value in RAIDing the external.
Modern drives are faster than USB2 or FireWire 400.

c) Support is working with you.

Aspect HD and Premiere is much faster than Vegas 7 with Connect HD (Vegas 6 is faster than 7 but no where near Aspect HD.)

a) Re-captured file and everything works ok. Thanks! Is there any way of deleting the confirmed audio files generated by Premiere Pro?

b) Any comments on the system itself? Should I increase the RAM?

c) Thanks!

Also...thanks for the info about Premiere Pro and Aspect HD.

Thanks for all your help! Rarely does someone from a company respond to customer queries on public forums. The customer service is alone worth the price of the product.

Best,
Aanarav

Any of the temp files can be deleted. Either look for them in Win Explorer, or go to the Scratch Disks part of the PPro Preferences dialog and see what the path is to temp audio files.

Good question about the RAM. If you can then add another 1GB. Premiere Pro recommends 1GB, and of course Aspect HD (and HD in general) will add to the system load. Although 1GB is fine for a faster system, the extra RAM may help you out.

Thanks. I will bump it up to 2GB of 667mhz. Hopefully, that should ease off some of the load.

HDV capture with Cineform but editing in DV
 

Hello

I'm shooting a short in HDV (sony Z1) using 50i and capturing using Cineform HDlink - deinterlacing on the fly to 25p. Problem i have is i won't have access to my editing pc (dual xeon 3.06), nor Cineform Aspect (installed on that computer) and will be out of the country for two months. But wanted to try and edit the video as best i can while I"m away since i have access to another PC. i recognize this sort of defeats the purpose of having Aspect but... es lo que hay.

question: if i down convert the clips to DV and edit in premiere pro, how would i use those edits to later go back and edit with the CFHD avi material on my editing PC. I imagine i can make an EDL in DV, but no idea how. any help would be appreciated

thanks

john

I suggest that you deactivate Aspect HD on your PC and reactivate it on the other. I just did that while switching editing PCs and it worked great. You can then reverse the process when you get back.

I have not had success with using DV to edit and then go back to HDV.

1) Steven is quite correct about the ease of moving AspectHD between machines ... the Cineform site sends out new keys almost instantly.

2) Nevertheless, if you have all your HDV footage shot before you leave, you can certainly use the "proxy files" approach. You can make a DV copy of each Cineform file, edit with that when you are away, then when you return link each clip back to the original Cineform file before your final render.

Works great! Look up the term "proxy" in Premiere's Help to read the details.

I recommend using batch conversion to create the proxies - makes it much less tedious. TMPGEnc Xpress has a batch conversion option, I'm sure there are other apps that do as well.

Cineform HDV Capture Settings panel
 

This is probably a silly question.
I'm using Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and I have just downloaded and installed the latest trial version of Aspect HD. I can't find the Cineform HDV Capture Settings panel (which I suppose should look like this http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...7&d=1163445792 ). Does the camera have to be connected in order for the panel to appear? (I can't verify this myself because I'm waiting for my camera to be delivered)
Thanks in advance

Yes, the camera has to be connected.