HDV to DVD
 

Okay I'm in need of major help with converting HDV footage to DVD disc. I've spent over 20 hours researching and trying to export different ways and burning clips for testing. So far I got nothing and I'm ready to drop it all and call it quits but I cant I got clients waiting! (very frustrating)

I use adobe premiere cs4 and I know many have had this issue with cs4.

Things I've tried:
-Dan Iasaac's method... really confusing and can't wrap my brain around it. If someone had success with this method I'd appriciate it if you can help guide me through it.

-Exporting to different formats... (once burned to DVD)
mpeg2-dvd: bad quailty
mpeg: bad quailty
h.264 : horizontal lines appear (but with the progressive setting give me an error)
numerous formats/options: error during export

-Tried the dynamic link method... fails to export in encore.

-Tried exporting mpeg2-dvd with "maximum render quality" but for some reason it will not let me choose that option, and I heard the exported file sizes are huge anyway!

I think my next wedding video I will have to down-convert to DV before editing. We started shooting in HD but I see now it might not have been a good idea (most people dont have bluray yet)

Again thanks for your time,
David

Do you use Cineform? Since this is a Cineform forum, most answers here will be for those using that workflow.

David... I haven't seen Dan's method, but here's what I do with very nice results, the caveat, it requires TMPGenc ($100 the last time I checked).

Output your edit to a CFHD file
Import into TMPGenc
Use the DVD preset
Set your data rates
Apply any filters.... some prefer to "always deinterlace". TMPGenc is one of the best at that task in my opinion
Set your output to seperate AC3 and MPG2 files.... and off you go.

Stephan: I do not use Cineform but if thats the way to go, I would buy they software. (How much is it?) I heard cineform is the best way to go thats why i posted here, should I post this somewhere else also to get more exposure?

Marty: Are you saying its that easy? If thats the case I would have to buy cineform... which one do I get because they have different versions it seems for different purposes.

Thanks again.
David

Cineform is not essential to the DVD process. I say I output to a CFHD because that is the format in which I do my edits.

Just output your edit in whatever format will offer the best result.... whether the native format of your acquisition, edit, or even something uncompressed..... TMPGenc will be able to handle it.

TMPGenc is the key because it is an excellent rescaler, an important step in the process from an HD source to an SD disc. Second, its MPEG encoding seems to be very good.... certainly better than anything the Adobe Media Encoder has ever dreamed of. Third, if you opt for a progressive format, TMPGenc is a superb delinterlacer.

If you are CS4, you can check out a myriad of threads on this board to see if Cineform is the right ingredient for you at this time, but regardless of that choice.... TMPGenc is like a Swiss-Army knife of encoding, and for $100, it does everything it says it will do.

I'll download the trial and update you guys later tonight.

Thanks for the tips!

Keep us posted David.... I believe the TMPGenc site has some useful tutorials as well.

The guiding strategy for many of us when producing DVD is to get out of Premiere as unscathed as possible and turn over the encoding to pretty much anything else.

TMPGenc
 

I agree. TMPGenc is amazing. I use it with cineform .avi files.

I use to use Dan Iasaacs method which is good but TMPGenc is better and much easier.

Simon

[QUOTE=David Kovalev;1446329]Okay I'm in need of major help with converting HDV footage to DVD disc.

I don't often do this but an actress we used recently asked me for a DVD of a scene for her portfolio and website. I found that this simple task is a lot more difficult than it should be. Because I do a lot of compositing I use After Effects more than Premier and I found that in fact AE can reduce and output to SD in most formats quite easily. Its also much quicker.

There are many ways to do it Ray... but doing it and maintaining the quality... that's the tricky bit.

Hey guys... Okay I got the software and its AMAZING! Its very easy to use and everything you dream of is on there! I'm messing around with some format options to burn to DVD.

Question: From premiere what format should I export to? I'm thinking eihter mpeg2-bluray or h.264 bluray... then this will convert it to mpg (which I've already done a test and its amazing... I just want the best of the best out of it.) However the file sizes are huge in bluray format... :(

What would you recommend. Thanks again.

David

I'm also using TMPEG for HD to DVD conversions from Cineform master files and love the quality.

Latest Update:

Okay looks like it all paid off and I have you guys to thank! I messed around with some settings in both premiere export and TMPGEnc export... and I believe I may have some astonishing results.

My settings are: Export from premiere cs4 with the preset of "h.264 - 1440 x 1080i wide" then tweek the settings you need... i left most of it alone. Once exported, take it into TMPGEnc and export to standard DVD settings and I also checked progressive. Then from there once exported I took it into Encore and finished of the DVD... so far the best HD to DVD conversion I've seen yet... looks really good on my 42" LCD TV (compared to SD fottage I used to export before HD)

If you have any other suggestions, I would appriciate it... or if I'm doing a no-no, please let me know.

Thanks again for your help guys! You saved me from ripping my hair out ;)

Do you believe the quality of the downscaled video is much better using TMPEG compared to resizing the video from within Premiere using Cineform?

Also, has anyone compared TMPEG to SQUEEZE?


I thought the SD downscale from Cineform HD using the Cineform AVI Exporter was good.

Richard I'm using Vegas and although Vegas does a decent job I get better results in TMPEG. TMPEG using the Lanzcos 3 scaling. I believe Cineform HDLink uses the same.

TMPGenc offers choices in both rescaling and deinterlacing modes to best suit the source material. It's the combo of these two functions that really make for a nice output.

I've usually used CF rescale to 480.avi, then Procoder 3 to code to m2v for really great looking DVDs.
Anyone know how this compares to TMPGEnc??
ITMPGEnc sounds like a quicker workflow.

Not sure about your workflow, but TMPGEnc aces it for our HD>DVD workflow.

1920x1080p Cineform masters downscale quite fast and look very nice indeed. Haven't found anything better, for sure.

I will have to run some test to see if there are any improvements outside of Cineform for downscaling.

To me the rescale option direct from timeline by using the Cineform codec in the movie export menu (1280 x 720 pal to 720 x 576 pal) and then use Procoder to do the m2v is far better then TMPGEnc (I have both).

The TMPGEnc is not in the same leauge as Procoder and I still think Cineform is the best downscale codec out there.

Hello,

I have procoder too but have much better results with TMPGEnc.

What settings do you use for Procoder?

Thanks,


Simon

I think the key to best DVD output lies in the file you give Procoder to convert.
I get the very best result using CF to downscale the HD.avi to SD480.avi, then convert the SD.avi with Procoder. Usually 6mbs 2 pass VBR. Sometimes I will tweak the Gamma, and/or color sat.
If I feed 1080 60i.avi to Procoder, the output DVD images are not as good.
If my source is 1080 30p.avi, the Procoder downscale & convert is pretty good- can often get away without the CF downscale.
Also, I have found that results are significantly better when downscaling & converting from square pixel source (1920x1080) than with HDV par 1.3 (1440x1080) source. For me, this is a big enough deal that for HDV editing, I will up-scale the original 1440 source to 1920x1080 CFHD.avi for the edit & export.
IMO all of these small items are additive in terms of their impact on the final DVD image.

Simon

I do as Robert does, I down convert to 16:9 (720 x 576 pal) from my 720 or 1080 HD source (square pixel) directly from the timeline in the export movie setting to a CF SD avi.

I then use the broadcast dvd preset CBR 8000Kbps in Procoder, it gives me the best result.

Regards
Mikael

Cool.

I will try that out.

With procoder, I always used debugmode frame server (from PPCS3) and created DVD's via Procoder. The results were decent but not great.

I will try your method.

Thanks,

Simon

I am also finding this thread useful as I am also looking for the best workflow converting my native 1440 X 1080 PAL 25p edited project to SD DVD. I use Premerie CS4 and decided to give Cineform Neoscene a try (7 day trial). If this works for me, I'll buy it. However, I've run into trouble with it already.

Found an interesting article here: CineForm Insider: Mastering 24p DVDs from HD using Premiere Pro.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong here, but I'm trying to export using the "Cineform AVI File" Format option in CS4 and attempting to export to an upscaled version 1920 X 1080 square pixel, (as that is apparently the important bit), but it crashes the Media Encoder everytime. Perhaps the encoder is incapable of upscaling. The project has been edited with settings; 1440 X 1080 (pixels 1.333), progressive 25fps.

I think it makes sense to upscale the export avi first before downscaling it, for the reasons explained in the article, but open to alternatives. I'm wondering what my options are as everyone else here seems to be thinking and working with NTSC footage.

I'm keen to avoid letterboxing too. If anyone has an ideal workflow for these settings, ie. which GOP settings to use 'I-frames Only' or 'I and P Frames', I'd be grateful!

While the upscale crash sounds like a bug that should be reported to support so it can be fixed. The DVD export method doesn't require upscaling at all, rather it is important to master at your HD resolution whatever that is (1280x720, 1440x1080 or 1920x1080), then resize that output file to you target resolution.

Leave the cineform encoded video on the Premiere timeline and either export directly to Encore or go to Encore and import the Premiere timelines without doing any transcoding. Once you have the video formatted in Encore, let it do the transcoding to generate either a Blu-Ray or DVD as part of its normal build process. I normally do both, and this gave me the fastest workflow in CS4. I used to export the video in a disc compliant format using CS2. CS4 seems to prefer the linked workflow method. This is what works best for me on CS4, although I'm doing NTSC video.

Thank you David and John for your helpful responses.

I have reported the matter to Cineform support and also to Adobe through the crash report window.

In the meantime, I did what David suggested and tried to export using the 'Cineform AVI File' format option at native 1440 X 1080 25p, 1.333 pixel - Same crash. So I then decided to try Microsoft AVI format export, but using the Cineform codec preset. This worked and I was left with a 2.7GB avi file (10 minute project). It's viewable with media creative source player.

Then tried what John suggested, but couldn't get this file to import properly onto the Premiere CS4 timeline. Premiere makes a 'peak' file, but that's about it! So I guess I'm stuck again! Would be nice to get a consistent workflow going with these tools!

Sound less like a bug now, something is missing. Neo Scene has been out for long time (selling in high volume), we would have heard these reports. Support at Adobe or CineForm should be able to find the issue.

Try opening Encore and use Adobe Dynamic Link > Import Premiere Pro Sequence. This method is what I found to work best in CS4. My Premiere Pro project was HDV, and I left all timelines in their native format 1440 x 1080i @ 29.97 fps with 1.333 aspect ratio. Quality is preserved by keeping everything in the same format it was videotaped, and processing is faster by not forcing a transcode to a different format.

I have tried non-stop for the last 12 hours trying to get Cineform to work with my system and close to the end.

Trouble is, if I can't even play the outputted cineform-encoded avi to view on my system, there must indeed be a serious issue somewhere... Perhaps my graphics card (ATI Radeon HD 4870) is the issue? Google isn't my friend in this regard as it seems I'm alone in my issue with the codec!

Alas, I have to get this project out so I will look at other options for now. Thanks for the support here!

I have the same graphics card, so it is not the issue (we don't use the GPU anyway.) If the "CineForm AVI" export is not working (it uses DirectShow -- something might be missing there) you can also use the Microsoft AVI / VfW and select the CineForm codec there. It was complete different components for the same output.

Right, I thought it important to update this thread on my issue discussed here.

Jake from Cineform support got back to me today and suggested I first update my Premiere Pro CS4 to the latest update (at least 4.1), but 4.2 was available, so updated to that.

Although it wasn't suggested I do this, I also updated the Media Encoder to 4.2 as it was also available. But he did suggest I update Cineform NEO Scene to V140b125-091113 (latest one as of this post).

Having made all the above updates, all my previous problems was resolved and the encoding process now works perfectly. I suggest any future people reading this with similar problems to make updates as above.

I have Procoder 3 and TMPGEnc and experimenting with both for my workflow.
My native clips are in PAL 1440x1080 25p which I also edited in CS4. I can now export creating my Cineform master at 1440x1080 as you suggested. After I bring my CFHD avi master back into the timeline, what's the best way to downscale from there for output on DVD (SD480 is NTSC, what's the PAL equiv?). Remembering the pixels are still 1:1.333 (HD Anamorphic)

I would like to avoid letterboxing and pillarboxing if possible. Thought I should downscale to 720 x 576, but that changes the aspect. 768 X 576 fits?

Someone should write a definitive guide on this!!

I forget where I found this link, maybe it was on this site, but I followed these steps and I am quite happy with the results using the HC encoder. Everything you need is free and its not really as hard as it looks on first read. The only thing is that I found that I had to apply SmoothDinterlace filter. I am not sure if this is because I made some mistake or not, but in the end I am quite happy with the output I ended up with as compared with doing the HD to SD from adobe media encoder.

Precomposed Blog - HD to SD DVD - Best Methods

HD to SD
 

Hi Simon and everyone..

Gordon, that process is a lot of work and here is what I have found that works great. Customers were shocked when I showed them a demo and then told them it was SD!

Output from PP# to CF 1920x1080 or waht ever size you work with fiull High quality. That that master and run it thru TMPGEnc. the conversion is amazing. The your file is ready for Encore of that is waht you use to create your DVD's Simple and fast. I de-interlace thru TMPGEnc also.
Some people do not prefer to go progressive.

Marty,
When you specify TMPGenc, I take it to mean TMPGenc-4.0 XPress?

I purchased the TMPGenc Studio and when I take a Cineform AVI out of CS4-PP there are "no apparent controls", filters or output options such as you and others seem to imply.

My HD looks reasonably good but my SD/DVDs from HD are always kinda soft/fuzzy.

I'm using HDLink to capture from Canon XH-A1s (1440X1080) where the original is 60i.

I've never been able to figure out whether the missing step of to use Encore or just concentrate on getting the crispiest HD timeline possible.

TIA to you or anyone who can clarify the TMPGenc element of HD->SD-DVD.

Marty,
I would also like a clarification on the Tmpgenc setup for HD-> SD DVD.

Thanks.

Ed B

You would want TMPGenc Express. You take your CF master straight into TMPGenc express $99. There are all the settings and controlls you would need. Is that the clarification you were looking for?

Bruce,

Using Tmpgenc Xpress I downsize a NTSC CF 1920 x 1080 to 720 x480 using Picture Resize (Lanczos - 3) and select DVD standard MPEG file 16 x 9 CBR (8000 kb/s). The results are soft and about the same as the Vegas Pro MC encoder. I have also skipped the resize and let the Tmpgenc encoder downsize the image with the same results. I assume I am not setting Tmpgenc correctly and I would appreciate a specific workflow and settings. Thank you.

Ed B