Bad sound quality when using Aspect HD at DVinfo.net

Nick Brandestini · August 9th, 2005, 02:57 PM

When I capture HDV material with Aspect HD 3.2, the sound quality gets bad. (On the original tape it's fine!). The picture quality is good and the editing works well, but the audio sounds like it's strongly compressed or something (??). There is a "whispering noise" in the background – not wildly loud but clearly audible. It sounds roughly like this: "fhtfthfthfthfth". The sound is already bad immediately after capturing, so the problem starts before editing with Premiere Pro. The problem also comes up when using HDLink (the m2t file sounds bad too). Note: There is NO problem at all using the "simple" HDV capture tool provided in Premiere 1.5.1.

I am quite lost here. Some files I could capture without any problems (with 3.1), but I don’t know why that worked…

Anyone any idea what this could be? It’s driving me crazy. The guys at Cineform couldn’t help me so far.

For info:
- My hard disk is defragmented.
- I disable Norton Internet Security while working with Premiere etc.
- I have a Pentium 4 HT, 3Ghz, 2GB RAM.

Thank you for any help!

David Newman · August 9th, 2005, 04:04 PM

Very weird. CineForm only edits uncompressioned audio, so it is not a compression issue. When you say "the m2t file sounds bad too" that leaves me to wonder where you have a bad/fault mpeg component installed on your PC. There is registry switch that allows you to control with MPEG decoders (audio and video) are used for the conversion.

Download http://www.cineform.com/downloads/UseMpegControl.zip
UnZip add double click on UseMpeg1.reg (to include the registry key.) This will switch the default MPEG decoder to the one Premiere uses (which is OK just a little slower.) Then start up HDLink (or Premiere Pro) and capture. UseMpeg0.reg will restore to the defaults.

See if that helps.

Nick Brandestini · August 12th, 2005, 11:41 AM

Thanks David for your fast reply! Unfortunately, using that file didn't make a difference. (I'm not quite sure though if it was "installed" properly).

Any other ideas?

Please remember that the sound is not damaged when using the regular HDV capture. But obviously, I'd prefer using your Aspect 3.2 one. Thanks!

David Newman · August 12th, 2005, 12:05 PM

Nick are you working through this with tech support?

Also what do you mean M2T sounds bad? Please clarify. As we convert data from the M2T file, if that is bad the conversion will be too. If you play the M2T with mediaplayer and VLC does it sound bad?

Pierre Barberis · August 13th, 2005, 01:55 AM

David,

You explained that in some way HDLink and AspectHD can be configured to define the MPEG codec it will use.
I am sure there are -MANY- other areas where such parameterization is built in the code..
Is there any -official or UNofficial- doc about these "registry controls" of others?
That some expert users could try at their own Risks ?

Thanks in advance.

David Newman · August 13th, 2005, 10:41 AM

No there is no document as such, but we should consider putting one together. There aren't that many secret controls as we intend to offer all feature up front. The few "hinden" controls are just fail-safes in case of PC compatibility issues.

Steve Crisdale · August 13th, 2005, 07:31 PM

Pierre,

Have you observed that the 'error' in sound correlates to any adjustments that you may have made while shooting the video - e.g. zooming, changing profiles etc.

I must admit that until the last shoot I did, I had not heard any extraneous noise in any of my clips - even while making such adjustments - of very low ambient sound subjects. After capturing with the latest ConnectHD, the clips upon playback exhibited a just audible sound similar to the one you describe, which after careful checking related to the noise of the zoom mechanism in the camera. I had also previously adjusted the on camera audio level from around the 8-9 mark down to 4-5. Whether this had a part to play... I'm not certain yet.

There are many factors that could be causing this aberation, so tracking it down may not be a rapid thing. I am going to have too bring forward my intended purchase of a Beachtek box if the extraneous noise persists though!!

Nick Brandestini · August 22nd, 2005, 07:46 AM

Hi David

I indeed worked through this with Tech support. After not finding a solution, they told me to use the "old" Premiere HDV plug-in.

The M2T sound is also like this: "ftftftftftftt" - very quiet but annoying. I played it with the windows media player.

Might the new Aspect 3.3 help with this problem? Would you recommend updating a "3.2.-based" project to 3.3 (and then continue to work on that project)? Or are there potential risks in my case? (I know my concern might be irrational.)

Thanks!

Nick.

David Newman · August 22nd, 2005, 09:27 AM

If the source M2T data produces the sound in media player there is nothing Aspect HD is doing to add or remove the sound -- i.e. we are faithfully reproducing it. As it is not a Aspect HD fault, I don't think Aspect HD 3.3 will change anything. My only theory is a faulty third party MPEG decoder has been installed on your PC that is interfering with MPEG playback and MPEG conversions.

Generally the upgrade to a new version of Aspect HD is safe. Although one should only upgrade mid-project if there is an enhancement needed for the project. No harm in some caution.

Nick Brandestini · August 22nd, 2005, 09:49 AM

As always, many thanks for your help! How can I get a decent MPEG decoder onto my PC (again)? I don't remember putting anything on it by the way. But that problematic decoder might have been within some program that I once installed (it transformed one format into another, e.g. avi into realmedia or so). However, I uninstalled that a long time ago and there are now no windows-unrelated video programs on my computer anymore - but that sound problem is still here.

Is there a way to clean up that MPEG decoder problem or to reset it somehow?

Thanks!

David Newman · August 22nd, 2005, 10:27 AM

As we don't know what third party component is at fault it is hard to remove it. Plus I'm only speculating as this is not a fault that we have seen or had anyone else report. I only have the fact that the old HDV capture in Premiere works which uses a different MPEG component. I would retry the use "UseMpeg1.reg" patch as your comment "I'm not quite sure though if it was "installed" properly", potential means that test has not been conclusive.

For the MPEG switch test the log window within HDLink will confirm which MPEG components are being used (click on the LOG button to open this window.)

For useMpeg=0 you will see

"Using Moonlight/Elecard MPEG conponents (useMpeg=0)"

for 1

"Using MainConcept-Adobe MPEG components (useMpeg=1)"

Please retest.

Nick Brandestini · August 24th, 2005, 08:47 AM

Sorry. I can't get that "useMpeg1" thing right. It just doesn't make a difference after having double clicked on that reg-file. And there is no "Using MainConcept-Adobe MPEG components (useMpeg=1)" reference anywhere in HDLink.

How do I do this MPEG switch test exactly?

For info: I recently uninstalled a divx-codec program (in an effort to eliminate any potential problem causing programs - it made no difference though)... Plus, I remember having installed (many months ago) a trial version of the MainConcept HD Plug-in and shortly after uninstalled that. Maybe the problem is connected to that (?). Any idea?

Now what if I (at least for now) stick to the old Adobe HDV plug-in and continue to work in my 3.2 project? How much lower is the quality really, and in what way?

David Newman · August 24th, 2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Brandestini

Sorry. I can't get that "useMpeg1" thing right. It just doesn't make a difference after having double clicked on that reg-file. And there is no "Using MainConcept-Adobe MPEG components (useMpeg=1)" reference anywhere in HDLink.

How do I do this MPEG switch test exactly?

What does the system say when you double clicked on the reg-file? Does it seem to modify the register? Have you used regedit before (a tech tool the allows you to do dangerous things with the registry?)

In HDLink push the "Log" button and convert an M2T it will report everything it does -- including which MPEG components it uses.

Jake Craig · August 27th, 2005, 06:46 AM

I had exactly the same problem as reported here :

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/archive/i...p/t-47254.html

Just downloaded the new version to see if it changed anything but the problem remains the same.

I tried the solution suggested by David, changing the use MPEG control for the Adobe UseMPEG1 and the sound problems are solved, but all I get is a green screen instead of video after the file is converted to the Cineform Intermediate.

All in all, I ended up purchasing the MainConcept Plug-in for premiere because I just could not get rid of the noise in the audio in Aspect.

I'm still willing to purchase Aspect if somehow a solution to this issue is found.

Nick Brandestini · August 28th, 2005, 03:36 PM

Hi Jake

Good to hear that someone else seems to have the same problem. I will stick to Aspect HD to avoid any additional problems. I work now with 3.2 and select the old Adobe 1.5.1 HDV plug-in, together with the setting (UseMPEG1). That seems to work.

However, I just recently noticed that when I try to watch clips that I have captured before, I get a "The CineForm decoder encountered an error" message (with Windows Media Player). It's scary! (???) I think the clips that I recorded with 3.2 and using the CineForm decoder (UseMPEG0) are affected by that. When I now use the old HDV plug-in with the UseMPEG1 it works fine. But, to make things even more complicated, every captured/converted file (with both UseMPEG0 and UseMPEG1) using HDLink gets that error (when played with e.g. Windows Media Player).

Anybody any comments?

Thanks!

August 9th, 2005, 02:57 PM	#1
Nick Brandestini New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	Bad sound quality when using Aspect HD When I capture HDV material with Aspect HD 3.2, the sound quality gets bad. (On the original tape it's fine!). The picture quality is good and the editing works well, but the audio sounds like it's strongly compressed or something (??). There is a "whispering noise" in the background – not wildly loud but clearly audible. It sounds roughly like this: "fhtfthfthfthfth". The sound is already bad immediately after capturing, so the problem starts before editing with Premiere Pro. The problem also comes up when using HDLink (the m2t file sounds bad too). Note: There is NO problem at all using the "simple" HDV capture tool provided in Premiere 1.5.1. I am quite lost here. Some files I could capture without any problems (with 3.1), but I don’t know why that worked… Anyone any idea what this could be? It’s driving me crazy. The guys at Cineform couldn’t help me so far. For info: - My hard disk is defragmented. - I disable Norton Internet Security while working with Premiere etc. - I have a Pentium 4 HT, 3Ghz, 2GB RAM. Thank you for any help!

August 9th, 2005, 04:04 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Very weird. CineForm only edits uncompressioned audio, so it is not a compression issue. When you say "the m2t file sounds bad too" that leaves me to wonder where you have a bad/fault mpeg component installed on your PC. There is registry switch that allows you to control with MPEG decoders (audio and video) are used for the conversion. Download http://www.cineform.com/downloads/UseMpegControl.zip UnZip add double click on UseMpeg1.reg (to include the registry key.) This will switch the default MPEG decoder to the one Premiere uses (which is OK just a little slower.) Then start up HDLink (or Premiere Pro) and capture. UseMpeg0.reg will restore to the defaults. See if that helps. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 12th, 2005, 12:05 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Nick are you working through this with tech support? Also what do you mean M2T sounds bad? Please clarify. As we convert data from the M2T file, if that is bad the conversion will be too. If you play the M2T with mediaplayer and VLC does it sound bad? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 13th, 2005, 01:55 AM	#5
Pierre Barberis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MANILA Philippines Posts: 117	Any Documentation available for Cineform "parameterization" David, You explained that in some way HDLink and AspectHD can be configured to define the MPEG codec it will use. I am sure there are -MANY- other areas where such parameterization is built in the code.. Is there any -official or UNofficial- doc about these "registry controls" of others? That some expert users could try at their own Risks ? Thanks in advance.

August 13th, 2005, 10:41 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	No there is no document as such, but we should consider putting one together. There aren't that many secret controls as we intend to offer all feature up front. The few "hinden" controls are just fail-safes in case of PC compatibility issues. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 12th, 2005, 11:41 AM	#3
Nick Brandestini New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	Thanks David for your fast reply! Unfortunately, using that file didn't make a difference. (I'm not quite sure though if it was "installed" properly). Any other ideas? Please remember that the sound is not damaged when using the regular HDV capture. But obviously, I'd prefer using your Aspect 3.2 one. Thanks!

August 13th, 2005, 07:31 PM	#7
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	Pierre, Have you observed that the 'error' in sound correlates to any adjustments that you may have made while shooting the video - e.g. zooming, changing profiles etc. I must admit that until the last shoot I did, I had not heard any extraneous noise in any of my clips - even while making such adjustments - of very low ambient sound subjects. After capturing with the latest ConnectHD, the clips upon playback exhibited a just audible sound similar to the one you describe, which after careful checking related to the noise of the zoom mechanism in the camera. I had also previously adjusted the on camera audio level from around the 8-9 mark down to 4-5. Whether this had a part to play... I'm not certain yet. There are many factors that could be causing this aberation, so tracking it down may not be a rapid thing. I am going to have too bring forward my intended purchase of a Beachtek box if the extraneous noise persists though!!

August 22nd, 2005, 07:46 AM	#8
Nick Brandestini New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	Hi David I indeed worked through this with Tech support. After not finding a solution, they told me to use the "old" Premiere HDV plug-in. The M2T sound is also like this: "ftftftftftftt" - very quiet but annoying. I played it with the windows media player. Might the new Aspect 3.3 help with this problem? Would you recommend updating a "3.2.-based" project to 3.3 (and then continue to work on that project)? Or are there potential risks in my case? (I know my concern might be irrational.) Thanks! Nick.

August 22nd, 2005, 09:27 AM	#9
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	If the source M2T data produces the sound in media player there is nothing Aspect HD is doing to add or remove the sound -- i.e. we are faithfully reproducing it. As it is not a Aspect HD fault, I don't think Aspect HD 3.3 will change anything. My only theory is a faulty third party MPEG decoder has been installed on your PC that is interfering with MPEG playback and MPEG conversions. Generally the upgrade to a new version of Aspect HD is safe. Although one should only upgrade mid-project if there is an enhancement needed for the project. No harm in some caution. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 22nd, 2005, 09:49 AM	#10
Nick Brandestini New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	As always, many thanks for your help! How can I get a decent MPEG decoder onto my PC (again)? I don't remember putting anything on it by the way. But that problematic decoder might have been within some program that I once installed (it transformed one format into another, e.g. avi into realmedia or so). However, I uninstalled that a long time ago and there are now no windows-unrelated video programs on my computer anymore - but that sound problem is still here. Is there a way to clean up that MPEG decoder problem or to reset it somehow? Thanks!

August 22nd, 2005, 10:27 AM	#11
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	As we don't know what third party component is at fault it is hard to remove it. Plus I'm only speculating as this is not a fault that we have seen or had anyone else report. I only have the fact that the old HDV capture in Premiere works which uses a different MPEG component. I would retry the use "UseMpeg1.reg" patch as your comment "I'm not quite sure though if it was "installed" properly", potential means that test has not been conclusive. For the MPEG switch test the log window within HDLink will confirm which MPEG components are being used (click on the LOG button to open this window.) For useMpeg=0 you will see "Using Moonlight/Elecard MPEG conponents (useMpeg=0)" for 1 "Using MainConcept-Adobe MPEG components (useMpeg=1)" Please retest. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 24th, 2005, 08:47 AM	#12
Nick Brandestini New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	Sorry. I can't get that "useMpeg1" thing right. It just doesn't make a difference after having double clicked on that reg-file. And there is no "Using MainConcept-Adobe MPEG components (useMpeg=1)" reference anywhere in HDLink. How do I do this MPEG switch test exactly? For info: I recently uninstalled a divx-codec program (in an effort to eliminate any potential problem causing programs - it made no difference though)... Plus, I remember having installed (many months ago) a trial version of the MainConcept HD Plug-in and shortly after uninstalled that. Maybe the problem is connected to that (?). Any idea? Now what if I (at least for now) stick to the old Adobe HDV plug-in and continue to work in my 3.2 project? How much lower is the quality really, and in what way?

August 27th, 2005, 06:46 AM	#14
Jake Craig New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17	I had exactly the same problem as reported here : http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/archive/i...p/t-47254.html Just downloaded the new version to see if it changed anything but the problem remains the same. I tried the solution suggested by David, changing the use MPEG control for the Adobe UseMPEG1 and the sound problems are solved, but all I get is a green screen instead of video after the file is converted to the Cineform Intermediate. All in all, I ended up purchasing the MainConcept Plug-in for premiere because I just could not get rid of the noise in the audio in Aspect. I'm still willing to purchase Aspect if somehow a solution to this issue is found.

August 28th, 2005, 03:36 PM	#15
Nick Brandestini New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	Hi Jake Good to hear that someone else seems to have the same problem. I will stick to Aspect HD to avoid any additional problems. I work now with 3.2 and select the old Adobe 1.5.1 HDV plug-in, together with the setting (UseMPEG1). That seems to work. However, I just recently noticed that when I try to watch clips that I have captured before, I get a "The CineForm decoder encountered an error" message (with Windows Media Player). It's scary! (???) I think the clips that I recorded with 3.2 and using the CineForm decoder (UseMPEG0) are affected by that. When I now use the old HDV plug-in with the UseMPEG1 it works fine. But, to make things even more complicated, every captured/converted file (with both UseMPEG0 and UseMPEG1) using HDLink gets that error (when played with e.g. Windows Media Player). Anybody any comments? Thanks!