Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I've had time to run some tests on my system. I found I could replicate Julian's issues if I created sequences where I selected "editing modes" of "Cineform RT" and "Custom" but otherwise had no problems as long as I used Cineform files with other CS5.5 presets and "editing modes."

Given how well Cineform files work in CS 5.5, I can see no reason to use the problem modes. You absolutely do not need them to edit with Cineform conversions in CS 5 or 5.5. Maybe I've missed something? Can somebody can tell me what is the perceived benefit of using CFRT or custom modes when you do not need them to use Cineform conversions?

For anybody who wants to know how and what I tested, here are details.

My tests were run with CS 5.5 (ver. 5.5.0) under Win 7 Pro running on an I7-950 CPU in an ASUS P6T-D v2 mobo with 12 gb RAM, a GTX 260 (using the nVidia 275.33 drivers), Cineform Neo (551b133), media files on a gSpeed 4 tb Raid 10 (Rocket Raid PCIe card) with renders to a 2tb internal RAID 0. All tests were with hardware MPE enabled.

Since I do not have any actual DSLR footage, I synthesized some by bringing 5 clips of 1080i AVCHD into a DSLR 108024p sequence and exporting each of them as Cineform 24p. I then imported those files into my project.

In all tests, I had PPro CS 5.5 set on "Adobe Player" (In Edit -->Preferences--> Player Settings). On my system, the other choices are Matrox and CFRT Player. I normally use the Matrox player because I have an MXO2 Mini and run a three-screen editing set-up. This time, I used Adobe Player and did not use the Matrox unit or the thrid screen. Selecting "CFRT Player" invariably crashes my system. Since I don't need to use the CFRT player to use Cineform AVI conversions, and since I do not understand what the CFRT player would give me that I do not already have with hardware MPE, I do not see this as a problem. (Again, what am I missing here; what are the possible benefits of using CFRT as the player?)

For "playback settings" --- which are accessed under "Sequence Settings" as well as the properties buttons in the upper right corners of the monitor windows --- I had "Desktop video during playback" checked and selected my secondary 1920x1080 monitor for the timeline playback window. I had playback resolution set to "full" and "play both fields" selected. (I should think the fields choice would not matter for progressive timelines and footage, though.)

I then created a DSLR sequence (which you do by clicking "File-->New-->Sequence" or by pressing "Cntrl-N"). Under the "Preset" tab, I selected DSLR1080p24 as the preset. The second tab in the sequence box is "settings" whose first line is a drop-down box for "editing mode." I accepted the default "DSLR" as the editing mode and okayed the new sequence. In the new sequence, I stacked four tracks of Cineform 24p conversions and synched (Clip--->Sync--->Clip Start). Next, I created a new DSLR 1080/24p sequence using the same settings (DSLR 108024p as the preset and DSLR as the editing mode), I nested my synched four-track DSLR sequence, then enabled multi-cam (Clip---.Multi-Cam---> Enable), and fired up a multi-pane multi-cam window (Window ---> Multi-cam) which I positioned over top of the the source monitor window and part of the Project Bin display. I brought in a fifth 24p Cineform track and laid it above the multi-cam on track 2. (This mirrors the 5 camera multi-cam edit where I have been using the Cineform 1080i files.)

Note that I had 5 tracks of 24p Cineform files. Everything is a Cineform file.

I was able to edit without problem and only had to deal with some jerky playback of the 24p footage. Some of the jerkiness seemed to go away after I rendered the timeline, so some of it was likely motion judder. The footage is from a dance recital with a lot of high motion, high contrast footage under stage lighting with spotlights.

I then tried to repeat this with new sequence settings. If I went to create a new sequence, and, this time, I selected a Cineform 1080p24 preset under the preset sequences tab. PPro crashed as soon as I tried to put anything on the timeline. (It did this under CS 5, too.) It also did this if I selected "Custom" of "Cineform RT" as the editing mode. PPro would crash as soon as I put anything on a timeline with either "Custom" or "Cineform . Other "editing modes" were fine.

I did not try this with software MPE.

What this tells me is that that 24p Cineform files seem to work as well under CS 5.5 as they did under CS 5 as long as you do not go into the New Sequence "Settings" tab and select either "Custom" or "Cineform RT" as your editing mode and as long as you do not use a Cineform sequence preset.

There is no apparent problem with using Cineform conversions of DSLR 24p files as long as you use other presets and editing modes. And, you still get the benefits of hardware MPE.

So, going back to Julian's original question, a lot of us use Cineform files but we just do not use Cineform sequence presets or editing modes any more. Again, I have to ask: why use Cineform RT playback or sequence settings or editing modes when you do not need them and you can use Cineform conversions in CS 5 and 5.5 and get the benefits of hardware MPE?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Thanks Jay for doing that test.

I replicated your tests on my system...

I created the project using an Adobe DSLR 24fps 1080p preset.
I created 2 sequences, using the Adobe DSLR preset.
I made sure Premier was using the Adobe Player as the player setting.
I loaded 3 CF AVI clips into "Sequence 01".
I nested Sequence 01 into the second sequence, "Sequence 02 - MultiCam".
I enabled Multi-Camera on "Sequence 02 - MultiCam".
I opened the Multi-Camera Window...

...And got the "totally green screen" in the multi-camera window as soon as I opened it, just as before.

If I turned off the MPE Hardware Acceleration, everything works normally.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Sounds like an attack of gremlins.

When you created your sequences this time, did you check the "Settings" tab (the second tab) in the sequence set-up windows? On my new CS 5.5 system, the system defaults to something related to what I chose on the first tab, but you might check just to be sure that something is not getting goofy there.

And here's something new. I just reopened the test project and I've got green screens, too. In the lower right corner of the Adobe Window, its has the little blue progress bar and CS 5.5 says it is establishing peak files (conforming) the audio. Again. When it gets done with that, the video comes back. Seems to be reconforming everytime I open the project. I'm filing a trouble report with Cineform on this.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Jay,

Yes, I went to the second tab when I created each sequence and double-checked the settings there.

The settings are as expected:

Editing Mode: DSLR
Timebase: 23.976
Frame Size: 1920 x 1080
etc etc.

Oh, and yes, Premier conforms the clips again every time I open the project!

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

On the re-conforming issue in CS 5.5, Cineform's Jake Seagraves swatted that bug for me with this solution:

In Premiere's menus, go to 'Edit\Preferences\Media' and uncheck the option to "write xmp id to files on import"

I can now open and close PPro CS5.5 as needed. (Something I wind up doing, for example, while putting a DVD together in Encore --- when you spot pesky little mis-spellings in titles, a forgotten fade up in a chapter, etc.) With that bug swatted, I am back to having no trouble with multi-cam edits in CS 5.5. Hopefully, they will quickly find a solution for the apparent conflict on Julian's system between hardware MPE with a GTX570 and multi-cam monitoring.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Jay,

Thanks for the update. What do I lose by this workaround? Anything important?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

After turning off this option --- which I might add, is something I had never even heard of --- I did a bit of research to try to find out what it is. I'm still mystified by it but, from what I can figure out, this option does not seem to be important in my workflow.

Near as I can tell, "Write XMP ID To Files On Import" seems to allow PPro to add a bit of indetifying XMP metadata to the source file -- kind of like an identity bracelet. In theory, this helps XMP-aware applications keep track of files and avoid redundant operations such as conforming audio if you change the file name, Seems like it would be most useful if you are somebody who changes filenames midstream in a project. Perhaps your imported files have a numerical name like 2011062503443.mts because that is how it comes in from your DSLR or AVCHD cam. Because this makes it hard to tell one file from another, maybe you decide to rename the file as, say, "camera2clip15.mts." In theory (as far as I grasp it), the XMP identity bracelet could let PPro know that this is the same file despite the name change, and that PPro therefore does not have to reconcofrm the audio or make you go through replacing clips alread in a timeline that you edited when the file had its previous name.

Unfortunately, these good intentions sometimes go awry on some systems and result in PPro CS 5.5 not only failing to recognize the metadata id/bracelet but trying to constantly to create or recreate it. I gather this is a known bug that only affects some systems. Like mine.

So, my take is that unchecking this option does not seem likely to adversely affect my workflow.

Maybe somebody else has a better understanding of this?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Sorry for forgetting to reply to this thread--for me, the nesting issue was a dealbreaker, as a project I was in the middle of finishing used a handful of them. In addition, however, I found a very noticeable decrease in performance with CS5.5 and the newer Cineform Neo vs. CS5 and the older Neo4K. Playback was noticeably choppier with frames utilizing 2 or more video streams at the same time. So I switched back.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

The latest beta fixes much of this. Try it if you are not in the middle of a project.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Just installed the latest version, and I'm still experiencing a marked slowdown in performance.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Did you uninstall first? If you did, you should not be seeing a performance hit, and should contact support for help.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I'm seeing some performance issues with CS5.5 but, in my case, they do not seem to be caused by Cineform.

I'm seeing a puzzling mix of some things seemingly running faster than before while others -- particularly timeline playback in multi-cam edits --- exhibit unrpredictable hiccups and pauses even with timeline playback of MPE-enabled transitions. The annoying thing is that sometimes there are pauses and halts and sometimes MPE transitions hiccup and judder as they play, and sometimes these problems disappear.

I note that I installed the latest Neo beta (build 327, I think.) That certainly fixed the problem of audio reconforming but did not fix the intermittent glitches and halts with timeline playback from multi-cam timelines.

The reason I think this is not a Cineform problem is I got the same issues when testing in a new project using the base AVCHD files rather than using the Cineform conversions. In my case, I suspect the issue is either my video card (I'm using an old GTX260 with DDR 3 RAM which may be too slow for mutlicamming in CS 5.5 on my system) or it might be an interaction with the CS5.5 drivers for the Matrox MXO2 Mini (the Matrox info indcates that some users may experience problems like these.) Maybe a combination of both.

As Ben noted in his case, I am considering switching back, for the time being, to PPro CS5.03 and also going back to the previous drivers for the Matrox Mini. When I can get time to do this --- which is when I get the pending couple of 5.5 projects completed --- I'll report back if if the latest Neo Beta has any untoward effects in CS5 on my system. (Doubt that it will, but it is worth checking out.)

Which leads me to ask Ben if he swtiched back to CS5.03 and is having performance issues with b.327 or if the problem is confined to PPro CS 5.5 on his system?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Reference my Green Screen multi-camera window when using CF AVI and Premier Pro CS 5.5, I just got notified by an Adobe employee (on their forums), that Adobe is working with Cineform to find a solution to this problem.

Hopefully a fix will be coming soon.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

It is purely a Cineform issue for me, CS5.0.4 and CS5.5 display virtually the same performance, it's the change from Neo4K to the new Neo that reduces performance for me. I haven't tried a full uninstall before a new install yet as David suggested, as I need to finish up my current projects before I go messing about risking a change from a configuration that works.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

The constant re-conforming bug has turned again. It went away for a couple of weeks after I installed the recent beta. It has now turned up again to periodically stop playback in CS 5.5 until it finishes reconforming and re-re-conconforming and re-re-re-conforming. I have had to switch off "write xmp id" again.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Cineform Folks...

Any updates on these issues?

Zac Lam, over on the Adobe forums, told me over a month ago, that the multi-camera "green window" problem was not an Adobe issue, but Adobe and Cineform were actively working together on a solution.

There have been no updates to the Adobe software in quite some time, and no updates to Neo either.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I'm pleased to report that my multi-camera problem (the multi-cam window going green when hardware Mercury acceleration was switched on in Premier, and Cineform files were on the timeline) has been fixed in the latest beta release of Neo. Apparently, according to Adobe, the problem wasn't in their code, as initially reported by Cineform. Thanks to Cineform for addressing the issue.

I haven't checked the other issues listed in this thread.