CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Will our current CS5 versions of CF be compatable with the new CS5.5 being released in May?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I agree, it would be nice to get a response on this. Seems like a pretty basic question and there's not a peep about it on the website. Just installed the trial and the new version of CF Neo and it doesn't look like any Cineform-related stuff is working in 5.5. What am I doing wrong if anything?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Yes I would like the word on this as well, 5.5 has some compelling features so hopefully CineForm works on it.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Whoa... That's a bummer.
I have CS5.5 on order, but am going to be reluctant to install until it's clear that CF is compatable.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Well it works fine for me CS5.5

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I realize this may seem curmudgeonly of me, but two conflicting posts and barely enough detail to be tantilizing.

Could you please expand on what you tried to do with Cineform under the trial version of PPro CS 5.5? Were you unable to import Cineform avi files? Would they not play from a timeline? Are you trying to see real time FL color corrections on a PPro timeline? Export from a timeline to a Cineform file? Something else?

Also, did you have an existing NeoHD (or NeoScene) that you uninstalled before bringing in the CS5.5 and new CF trials? Did you install the new CF after installing the PPro CS 5.5 trial? My recollection from when I went from CS4 to CS5 is that I had to first uninstall Cineform (using the CF Uninstall utility which avoids deactivation) before installing CS5. Then, after installing CS5, I reinstalled CF. I believe CS 5.5 is a "new install" (which leaves your CS 5 alone) and thus may require these steps. I don't know if this is required, but you might try it if you did not already do so.


same questions for you. How and what did you test to confirm CF was working under CS 5.5? What version of CF and build are you using? Did you install a full version or a trial version of PPro CS5?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Those details would indeed be interesting.
But, what I would really like to hear is some response from CF regarding CS5.5 compatability.
Surely they have tested with CS5.5, or perhaps not yet...

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I agree that it would be nice to get CF's evaluation.

What is compatibility if not things like these details?

If not, I do not understand what is meant by compatibility. Are you asking if a having CF application will prevent CS5.5 from from even running?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I am using a full version of Adobe Prem 5.5 and Cinefrom Neo 5.5.0.319 with codec 7.2.3.583
I have no problems using previous encoded cineform material and also exporting to the cineform codec.

I have not tested out the Alpha Channel capability yet with Cineform but will do later next week.

Gary

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Robert:

Sorry, if my last post came across as snarky. What I mean is that, while we wait for Cineform to respond, we have a couple of test cases here. Ben asks "what am I doing wrong" because he cannot get the trial version of CS5.5 to work with Cineform. Without details, it is hard to respond helpfully to this or know what to make of it. One possibility is that the PPro CS5.5 trial version does not work with CF apps. Adobe's website cautions that the trial version of PPro CS5 may not work with third party plug-ins and apps. In the past, CF trial versions have worked with Adobe trial versions, but maybe something is different now? Gary's good experience (full CS 5.5 version) suggests that the problem might be with the trial versions that Ben is using. Since Gary is using an older version (NeoHD 5.5.0 b 319), maybe the problem is with the new CF trial?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I agree.
Gary's experience is encouraging for me, as I will be using the full version of CS5.5, and I have a variety of Neo4K 5.xx versions available.
I think I'll go on and install CS5.5 next week & give it a try.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Just to throw in my 2 cents:

I just installed a new system hard drive, did a fresh install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, CS 5.5 Trial, and Cineform Neo (registered version).

I shot three 30 second clips on my Canon 5D mk II at 24p. I then converted the MOV files to CFAVI using the default HD Link settings, and then created a Premier Pro CS 5.5 project using the Cineform 24p preset.

When I added the CFAVI clips to the timeline, there was no render-bar. When I added Cineform Crossfade Dissolve transitions (from the supplied Cineform Video Transitions folder) to the clips, the render-bar turned red above each of the transitions.

When I played the timeline back, it was pretty choppy, especially at the transitions. When I had Windows XP, Premier Pro CS3 and Neo installed on this computer, playback was always smooth (though PPro CS would crash on me constantly!).

As a comparison, I created a Premier Pro CS 5.5, project using Adobe's 24p preset. I loaded the original MOV files from the 5D mk II, added Crossfade Dissolves from Adobe's default transitions, and the timeline played back smoothly.

So, my experience shows that *something* is not working as well with CFAVI playback in a CF preset on Premier Pro CS 5.5 Trial.

Three different people at Adobe told me, on three separate occasions, that the files supplied in the Trial (both the downloaded version and the purchased DVD version) are IDENTICAL in EVERY WAY (their words) to the store-bought, full DVD installation disks. The only thing that changes how the software works, is the serial number used to activate it.

I don't know why the Trial would not work properly with Neo, even if the Trial does not come with "some 3rd party codecs"... as the missing codecs would be supplied by installing Neo! Adobe told me that after entering a valid serial number, the missing codecs would be downloaded, and the currently locked out features would be enabled. I have successfully exported Adobe 24p Preset timelines containing Canon 5d mk II MOIV files to CF AVI using Adobe Media Encoder, so I know the Cineform codec is installed already.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I think there is a problem with the codec : Some files play smoothly on WMP but not on VLC and QT.

For me the solution as of now is to revert to a pre 5.5.x version

Re: VLC
 

It is not supposed to play in VLC, never has, and likely never will (VLC policies not ours.) QT is not a good playback solution for Windows. There is not a codec problem.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I see.

OK, good to know.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

premiere cs5.5 increased support for DSLR's. I doubt you will need neoscene any longer.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I have Neo installed and I just installed CS5.5. All I see is the AVI CF encode options. Do I have to install Neo again to see the CF encode ... options?

Ed

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Yes, Neo has to be installed after CS to know where to add the components.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

I believe CS 5.5 installs as a "new version" rather than an "upgrade" and new versions require reinstallation of CF. I would use the Cineform Uninstall tool to uninstall Neo without deactivation, then reinstall the last CF upgrade and see if that fixes your problem. This uninstall/install routine is the same one used whenever you get a CF upgrade, so it should not be a problem.

By the way, I am not sure what you mean by "encode" options.

My frame of reference is PPro CS5 on PC with NeoHD 5.5. Under PPro CS5 (file--.export--media--> format) and directly to Adobe Media Encoder CS5 (format and settings), the only CF options I find on my system are for CF AVI and CF MOV. I do not see any AVI CF (as opposed to CF AVI). Am I looking in the wrong place or are CS 5.5 menus different from the existing CS 5 menus? Is it only CF MOV that is missing or did you have other CF encoding options previously? Does any of this change when you follow the uninstall/reinstall steps?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Thanks Jay, installing Neo again gave me the Cineform AVI and MOV export options. The avi CF I was referring to are the old VFW (video for windows) codec. If you go to the Export setting panel under Export Settings set the Format to Microsoft AVI instead of Cineform AVI. Go down under the Video tab and roll through the codecs and you will find Cineform x64 Codec v7.2.3 vfw codec. Click on setting and you will see the codec settings. There is also a CF codec under Quicktime.

Ed

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Well, that is interesting.

On my system, the export settings menus do not show the options you describe. This is probably because I have an MXO2 Mini installed on my system. Under MS AVI I see only NTSC, PAL and Matrox settings. Since I only use the CF-AVI, anyway, the absence of the AVI-CF option is just a curiousity for me.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

To add to this I just installed a fresh copy of win7 64bit and CS5.5 full version. I've installed the 5.5.1.323 latest Neo 3D trial and I get CHOP CITY when adding a simple dissolve (during the dissolve) to clips in a cineform 1080p 23.976 Premiere Pro comp.

In addition the playback also goes choppy on any clips that have been corrected in FirstLight. Editing the native dslr mov files using the DSLR comp templates is smooth as silk during transitions and any other number of MPE effects I care to throw at it.

Interestingly if I edit cineform clips using the adobe DSLR 1080p 24 comp - I can add effects and transitions and its also smooth as silk. So not sure what is happening here? Does no one use the Cineform comp templates any more?

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Paul:

By "comp," I assume you mean composition in the sense of sequence settings for a PPro Timeline.

First question: do you see some advantage to using Cineform sequence presets in CS 5.5 as opposed to simply putting Cineform files on standard timelines? Does a Cineform preset enable 10-bit color output to a second monitor (assuming it is 10-bit capable) for timeline monitoring and color grading?


I cannot recall the last time I tried using a Cineform preset. Typically, I use a Matrox 1080/60i preset as I also use a Matrox MXO2-Mini for a third screen display. I've also worked with Cineform files in other standard presets in CS 3, 4 and 5.

Still, your post made me curious so I ran some tests. I did this under CS5 because I have not yet decided whether or not to get the 5.5 upgrade. I would think there would not be significant differences in results. I should add that I am running CS5 under Win 7 Pro on a system with an ASUS P6TD-v2 mobo, I7/950, 12 gb RAM, GTX 260, with multiple hard drives and my media files and project/render files on separate RAIDs. I regularly do multi-cam edits with as many as seven HDV and AVCHD video tracks (typically converted to Cineform 1080 AVI files).

First, I tried a Cineform Sequence for a 1080/50p clip I received. (This was shot by somebody who had just bought a Sony NX70 and could not get his PPro to recognize LPCM audio with the full 50p footage he had shot. I tried a Cineform conversion to see if it could read the LPCM audio the way it does with the 1080i LPCM I get from my NX5. It did not.) I put the 1080/50p clip in a CS 5 timeline using a matching Cineform 1080/50p setting. I made a cut and added a simple cross-dissolve. PPro CS5 would play back but would not recognize any transition at all. I tried to render. CS5 crashed.

Next, I restarted PPro and created a Cineform 1080i sequence. I brought in a couple of Cineform AVI files. These were native 1080/30i files -- aka 59.97 NTSC 1080 as well as 60i. One was a file converted from HDV and the other from AVCHD. Both have First Light color adjustments. They are files I am currently using without problems in long multi-cam project. I chopped out clips from each file, dropped them on the timeline and added a simple dissolve between them. Same results.

With two crashes, I did not even test a 24p setting.

Seems that the Cineform presets don't work under Adobe CS5 and 5.5 on some systems with some kinds of footage.

You could file a trouble ticket with Cineform.

Or you could just use your Cineform conversions in standard timelines and just ignore the Cineform timeline presets.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the in-depth post.

Yes I did try the cineform files in a a 1080p DSLR preset timeline and as you say they worked flawlessly. I guess I was just operating from old school mentality where one of the benefits of using a cineform timeline was that if you had to render any effects - they would be rendered using the 10bit cineform codec.

I guess its a little redundant as most simple form projects no longer require rendering parts of the timeline...but surely there are still layer heavy, effects rich sequences that Adobes MPE cant cope with that would need to be rendered. In that case it looks like it would be handled with I-Frame mpeg 8bit 4:2:2 same as your Matrix offers.

I just thought using a Cineform preset would ensure everything was kept in a CF10bit codec until the final output. But I guess if no one uses the CF presets anymore...it may be just the way it is :-)

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

they lie...
when you install demo of adobe suite you miss a lot's of codec, not only for rendering, but also to read and decode correctly video files in excam and more...

anyway i use smoothly cs5.5. suite and cineform on old 2006 computer...

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Haven't found anything yet that MPE cannot cope with except Cineform pre-sets. I had not thought to run my tests with MPE disabled.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

As of version CS5.5, Julian is correct. Even though Carlo is using CS5.5, his information is outdated and would refer to CS5 and earlier. See my article that has a paragraph to discuss this issue:

A Spring Surprise from Adobe: CS5.5 at DVInfo.net

Here's the excerpt:

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

OK, all this is nice.
But do we have a compatible build (or beta) of CF yet, and what presets to use (or avoid) to make CF compatible with CS5.5??

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

5.5 is be supported for long while. The playback engine has bug in nesting, same in 5.0. So for 2D the Desktop mode is fine, for 3D still use the presets.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Just saw Davdi's post after I submitted this.

Answer to previous question is yes and no.

Yes, Neo is compatible with CS 5.5.

No, we do not seem able to use Cineform sequence presets. I cannot use them with CS 5, either. On my system, Cineform files are fine. First Light also seems to link without problem, as well. I can edit Ceinform files in almost any kind of sequence I choose, although I generally use a Matrox 1920x1080i setting because I have an MXO2 Mini for external display. But, if I use Cineform 2d timeline presets, the program crashes. This occurs whether or not I've selected Cineform as the playback device in Preferences and even if I have uninstalled the Matrox software and hardware. There are a couple of other threads going on the subject. Personally, with hardware MPE, I see no need to use the Cineform 2d sequence presets in CS 5 or 5.5. Otherwise, Neo works as well as eve for me.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

David,

I sent a trouble ticket to support detailing the problems I'm having with CS 5.5 and CF AVI files in a nested sequence, for multi-camera use. Plain and simple, it doesn't work!

I sent in a VERY detailed message, and the VERY terse answer I got back from support said, simply, that it was Adobe's problem.

In a nutshell, when I use CF AVI files, nest them in a "DSLR 1080p" sequence, enable multi-camera mode on the new sequence, and show the multi-camera window, all I get is a green screen. I can click on where the individual cameras are supposed to be, and PPro CS 5.5 records the edits, but since the screen is completely green, I can't see what I'm editing! See attached image, showing the problem (with 3 cameras included in the nested multi-camera sequence).

I was told to set the sequences' editing mode "Desktop", but that's not an option in CS 5.5. So, instead, I was told to use "Custom". I've tried that, and I get the same results.

When I take Cineform products out of the workflow entirely, and just use Canon 5D mk II native MOV files, everything works fine.

How is this an Adobe problem when it works fine WITHOUT Cineform, and does not work WITH Cineform?

I upgraded my computer ($2,500), my operating system ($200), Neo ($500) and my NLE, JUST to get Cineform to work for me! I was told, when I first chose Cineform, that it was fully compatible with Adobe CS3, but it wasn't. I was told it was fully compatible with Adobe CS 5.5, but it isn't.

Am I wasting my time with Cineform? According to Cineform Technical Support, it appears I am... everything is "an Adobe issue. They are aware of it, and have told us they do not intend to fix it."

Just FYI, this is on a Clean installation of Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, and a Clean installation of Adobe Production Premium CS 5.5, and the latest build of Neo.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Julian:

I agree that the CF timeline and playback presets do not work, but can you tell me why you need to use them? My experiments with them have been academic exercise that confirms they do not work, but I am not understanding the reasons somebody would need them under current versions of CS5 and 5.5.

It used to be the case that one needed to choose CF as the playback device to get real-time playback of effects with Cineform conversion files, but MPE does that now without any need to use Cineform presents. I've found I can drop pretty much any format into any kind of timeline and get real-time playback with everything including multi-cam except when I try a cinfeform timeline preset &/or use CF as the playback device. Is your experience different?

Do your Cineform conversions not play when placed in a DLSR 1080p timeline? Are you working with 3d footage? Are you supposed to get 10bit color playback to a Dreamcolor or Eizo monitor?


Again, I am having no trouble whatever using Cineform files in Adobe projects except when I try to use Cineform presets and I see no benefit to using CF presets when editing Cineform files in PPro multi-cam projects.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Jay,

I've tried everything!

The JPG from my previous post was from a project created using the DSLR 1080P 24fps preset (provided by Adobe). The sequence holding the clips from the 3 cameras was an Adobe DSLR 1080P 24fps preset, with the editing mode set to "Custom", per the directions given to me by Cineform's Technical Support, as was the Multi-Cam sequence.

The ONLY thing "Cineform", were the 24fps CF AVI clips themselves. The player is set to the Adobe Player.

If I use the exact same project, delete the CF AVI files and replace them with the 5D mk II native MOV files, everything works perfectly. As soon as I introduce ANYTHING Cineform, I get problems. This is plain Jane 2D clips... no transitions, no edits, just raw CF AVI footage placed on separate tracks on a timeline, nested, and mult-cam enabled.

CF AVI files play fine on their own, but become a little choppy when transitions are introduced. This is on an i7-970, with 24 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 570 GPU, and a 10,000 rpm drive.

Re: CS5.5 Compatable?? Yes
 

Multi-cam should work and I have confirmed it works here. The nested-sequence issue is easy to handle in all but 3D projects, it is a error in the interface between the Adobe API and CineForm plugins, Adobe provided the sample code that has the nesting bug, while support was technically correct, it is acknowledged that it is up to CineForm address (the new support person didn't know this subtly.) All is solved using a custom preset, we need to generate new presents so this is automatic. Something we are working on now.

If something support has suggested doesn't work for you, please follow up with support, as they can do a remote session to that step was missed (in their instructions most likely.)

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

David,

I appreciate the feedback, but these are the instructions I received from support (before they closed the ticket as "Solved", when it was far from solved):

Begin Quote:
"My mistake in my FIRST response was to tell you 'desktop' mode. Apparently the terminology has changed in 5.5.

FROM MY SECOND EMAIL: You can start with one of the CineForm sequences, then go into Editing Mode and select 'Custom'

Apparently it's no longer called 'Desktop'.
End Quote

Not much to miss in those instructions!

As I've said... it doesn't work here, on a clean Windows installation and a clean Adobe Production Premium CS 5.5 installation, and the latest build of Neo (downloaded 10 minutes ago).

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

As it is working here, and Jay (above) also, we have to determine why it is not working for you.

Please:

"If something support has suggested doesn't work for you, please follow up with support, as they can do a remote session to see what step was missed (in their instructions most likely.)"

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

David,

I have re-opened the ticket that support closed as "Solved".

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Just got done with a remote session with Jake from Cineform.

It appears that there's an issue with the Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration in Premier Pro CS 5.5. When it is changed to "Mercury Playback Engine Software Only", I'm able to do multi-camera edits normally (using "Custom" as the Editing Mode on the source and multi-camera sequences).

I wonder if this is only a problem with the nVidia GTX 570?

Anyway, thanks to Jake, it appears I have a workaround (switch the MPE to software while doing multi-camera edits).

Re: CS5.5 Compatable??
 

Thanks for that information.

I'm, too, am curious if the problem is limited to the GTX570 and/or DSLR footage (and maybe 24p). I'm out of the office today and do not have 5.5 installed on my laptop, so I'll have to wait til later to try checking this out on my computer. I have a different graphics card (a GTX260 on an I7/950 system) and do not have any DSLR footage, but I do have a current multi-cam project with Cineform AVIs which I will try with DSLR 24fps sequence presets. If I do not get the problem, that will suggest that the problem may be specific to hardware MPE with the GTX570. (But, of course, I would need actual DSLR footage to fully confirm that. Maybe Cineform will have checked this before I get around to it.) If I do get the problem and it goes away when I switch to a non-DSLR sequence, that will be interesting.