Data to Film with Cineform RAW and Prospect 2k

[Sergio Sanchez]

Jason and David

I`ve made some quick test and that is what i`ve got.

I guess that the post guys (and me) didnt export correctly the LOG files.

Thank you for uncovering the misteries of the cineform exports in AE.

[Sergio Sanchez]

Here`s another one, this one was shot with the latest GigeAPP and later Cineform RAW, i believe is a more accurate example.

I made a fast color correction example of the exported Cineform in Fusion.

Today im having a film out preview, i think this will be very handy.

Thank you both.

[Jason Rodriguez]

No Problem :)

These images now look correct to me.

[Jason Rodriguez]

Jason -- Can you use the in-built speed grade to remap the look to linear? Current look file are typically SI-Log mapping 2.2 display gamma. It would be nice to remap the same look to linear to linear and linear to display gamma. For this would be no issue for SpeedGrade DI. What we need a simple LUT remapper for DI suite that use linear or cineon curves, etc.

Yes, this can easily be done. We actually have a couple different gamma curves that we map to from the initial Log->Linear->Matrix->gamma curve conversions that we do in the "Matrix&Lut" section of OnSet, and I touch on that in the tutorial video that I had posted on SpeedGrade OnSet.

Basically if one wanted to relinearize the look, simply take out the post-matrix gamma curve. So this could very easily be done in SpeedGrade DI, etc. since the .look files import directly into that app, and one can change the attributes of the post-matix gamma curve.

What I've also done is setup a Cineon curve option in the post-matrix gamma option, so instead of re-linearizing, one can also very quickly make the .look files Cineon-compliant as well. Since SpeedGrade DI can also apply a film calibration viewLUT, you can then grade in-context of the film-out, but not bake the film calibration LUT into the .look file.

[Sergio Sanchez]

Thats great, it will be very helpfull to be able to apply a film print .look.
That gives you the idea of how your scene will feel in theaters when shooting.
It would be great to have the preset, because most of the times the guys operating the camera are used to film or tape adquisition. And the LUT`s and color spaces are more related to postproducers, and vfx guys.

Its a very good idea.

Thanks

[Jason Rodriguez]

The other nice thing is that we support a separate ViewLUT from RecordLUT in the camera, so you can still record a Cineon-compliant file, while watching a "film-print" on the monitor.

[Sergio Sanchez]

Thats great a really useful tool. In fact we were finding the way to create a film out print accurate for be displayed on the camera. But i think i`ll wait to use your preset.

In the last version of the GigApp i`ve downloaded, maybe a month ago, i noticed that you integrated the Iridas into the camera software, but the application wasnt runnin` yet.

When do you think you will have it ready and fully operational?

The new toolset looks really great

[Eric Wu]

Hello Jason, David and Sergio,

I've take the .jpgs you showed above and tried David's steps in AE.
I found that all of them were done using the AE cineon converter's default setting of gamma 1.7.
But according to AE's documentation to convert from logarithmic to linear the gamma should be set to 1.0
Or was I always wrong about it? I guess I've never fully understand the cineon gamma setting.
Where does that 1.7 come from anyway? If it's for normal viewing then shouldn't it be 2.2?
And setting it to 2.2 the result is not even equivalent to applying a "level" effect with gamma 2.2!
I'm so confused. Please help me figure it out!

Eric Wu

[Jason Rodriguez]

Eric, you are right, the gamma should be set at 1.0, not the 1.7 that After Effects sets the gamma to. This is because in the 32-bit float mode, we're actually now a photometrically linear file.

The confusion of course comes in the math that Kodak uses for their Cineon equation. The gamma correction for a linear source should be 1.0, but in their equation, they have a Display Gamma input that gets divided by a constant of 1.7:

Display Gamma / 1.7 = Final Gamma

After Effects' implementation creates confusion because those familiar with the Cineon equation think that the "gamma" that AE is giving them access to is the Display Gamma setting from the Kodak Cineon equation, where-as it's actually the Final Gamma, which is already divided by 1.7 (or something close to that). So for instance, if you thought you were adjusting the Display Gamma input (which you're not), you would set the Adobe gamma setting to 1.7 . . . but in actuality you're adjusting the Final Gamma, which would make setting 1.7 incorrect, you want a Final Gamma of 1.0.

So in essence, Sergio's files are too dark to be Cineon-compliant.

[Eric Wu]

Thank you Jason. It's very informative.

[Sergio Sanchez]

I`ve been doing some cineon exports. I`ve used only the render to cineon options. But i`ve noticed that the final renders looks very different when rendering to cineon than when applying the cineon converter filter.

My question is how can i render to dpx or cin when using the cineon converter filter?.

Because i`ve noticed that if you use the cineon converter and render to cineon/dpx AE combine both and image doesnt work.

I had to render to tif (or any image extension) but not to .cin/.dpx.

[Eric Wu]

Hello Sergio,

If you already use the cineon converter effect on the footage(s), then when you render to cineon sequence you should choose the "Full Range" preset in the format options. If you use the "Standard" preset then it will do the linear to log conversion again and the result will be incorrect. I think that may be what went wrong with your result.

[Sergio Sanchez]

This is a clip someone uploaded its in low quality, but you can get the picture.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MVqImnb7x9Y