nanoFlash Known Issues

Ted O'Brien · October 19th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Should I be getting a different picture quality when I use the SDI vs. the HDMI inputs? We are capturing video game footage out of a XBox 360 going into the nanoFlash via HDMI. The editors were complaining of crushed blacks. I switched to the SDI input and all is well. The new signal path is HDMI out of the XBox into a nanoConnect, out of the nanoConnect HD-SDI into the nanoFlash. Is this a known issue? Any thoughts on why this is happening? Here's my setup:

XBox 360 HDMI out to
nanoConnect HD-SDI out to
nanoFlash 1.0.112
SanDisk Extreme IV 16GB
LongGOP, 50Mbps, MXF
Import to Avid 4.0.2

Unfortunately I don't have anything that can generate bars that has HDMI output. Please advise...

Daniel Symmes · October 19th, 2009, 05:11 PM

Can I make a guess?

Gamma? 2.2/1.8?

Otherwise, something is perhaps looking for setup which shouldn't be in this case, but it sure is indicated.

Dan Keaton · October 19th, 2009, 05:18 PM

Dear Ted,

I have alerted our Support Manager.

You have provided us with the detailed information that we need to try to solve your problem.

We will report back.

Mike Schell · October 19th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted O'Brien

Should I be getting a different picture quality when I use the SDI vs. the HDMI inputs? We are capturing video game footage out of a XBox 360 going into the nanoFlash via HDMI. The editors were complaining of crushed blacks. I switched to the SDI input and all is well. The new signal path is HDMI out of the XBox into a nanoConnect, out of the nanoConnect HD-SDI into the nanoFlash. Is this a known issue? Please advise...

Hi Ted-
So the video looks correct if you go HDMI out of the XBOX -> nanoConnect -> nanoFlash? If so, we have an incorrect color space conversion table loaded into the HDMI receiver on the nanoFlash. This should be an easy fix.

Best-

Ted O'Brien · October 19th, 2009, 05:58 PM

The video looks better XBox->nanoConnect->nanoFlash. There are more details in the blacks and dark areas of the shot. I would hate to say correct as I don't have a way to bring in bars via HDMI. I recorded some test bars out of the Avid via HD-SDI and played them back into the scopes and everything tested out perfectly. Should be easy for you guys to throw some bars at it SDI and HDMI and see if there's a shift. Please let me know what you find out.

Rafael Amador · October 19th, 2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schell

Hi Rafael-
On the Gamma discrepancy issue, was the video captured via HD-SDI out of the nanoFlash into an IOHD? Is the bit-rate the same for the MOV and MPG file formats?

I though the essence (MPEG2 data) was the same for MPG, MOV and MXF. But we could have made a mistake in programming the Sony MPEG2 encoder in MPG format.

Thanks-

Hi Mike,
Sorry I've got lost in this thread.
No. The discrepancy was capturing from the ioHD to the NANO.
I played in the MBP through the ioHd and captured in the NANO a 720p50 clip.
I've captured as QT and as MPEG. The MPG was much darker.
Best,
rafael
PS: Great you found the ioHD bug.

Lance Librandi · October 22nd, 2009, 07:05 AM

Hi Dan & Mike,
I tested the AJA IO HD connected to my DVCAM player via component sending a HD SDI signal to the NanoFlash. I found it worked fine but too big to mount onto my dockable camera so I have purchased a Black Magic Design Mini Analogue to SDI converter which I am installing and testing tomorrow to record SD to the NanoFlash.

Today I used my new portable SDHD SDI monitor for the first time. When we finished shooting our links I decided to check the recording and do a playback. When I pressed play on the NanoFlash I noticed no audio levels, well it scared the hell out of me then I remembered reading somewhere that it was a known issue. The monitor only has an earphone socket, when I put the headphones on to my great relief and audio was there.

Do you have any idea when SD playback will be implemented.

Thanks

Dan Keaton · October 22nd, 2009, 07:42 AM

Dear Lance,

Our audio level meters in playback were intermittent. On a regular basis, they would go to zero, then return to showing the normal levels.

We decided to stop showing the level meters on playback until we could fix the problem.

I am sorry that this caused you some concern (actually a major scare).

I know we are working on SD Playback, but I do not know the schedule at this moment.

What is, or is not going to be in our next release changes quite frequently, so I have a hard time keeping up.

For example, I discussed "Low Latency audio", for audio embedded in the HD-SDI stream two days ago. Last night I was surprised to find out that this is expected in the next releaes. (On the nanoFlash, analog audio is already "low latency".)

Lance Librandi · October 23rd, 2009, 12:32 AM

Thanks Dan as long as it record audio that's fine, I seldom look at the Nano during playback. My HD/SD monitor has the option to display's audio levels which I have now switched on and when I playback via HDMI or SDI I can see the audio from the Nano.

Mike Schell · October 29th, 2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted O'Brien

Should I be getting a different picture quality when I use the SDI vs. the HDMI inputs? We are capturing video game footage out of a XBox 360 going into the nanoFlash via HDMI. The editors were complaining of crushed blacks. I switched to the SDI input and all is well. The new signal path is HDMI out of the XBox into a nanoConnect, out of the nanoConnect HD-SDI into the nanoFlash. Is this a known issue? Any thoughts on why this is happening? Here's my setup:

XBox 360 HDMI out to
nanoConnect HD-SDI out to
nanoFlash 1.0.112
SanDisk Extreme IV 16GB
LongGOP, 50Mbps, MXF
Import to Avid 4.0.2

Unfortunately I don't have anything that can generate bars that has HDMI output. Please advise...

Hi Ted-
Just as a follow-up on the color issue with the HDMI out of the XBOX, we were able to duplicate the issue in our lab today. We see the problem with the crushed blacks and were able to make a fix to our firmware.

If you would like a beta copy to test, please send an e-mail to support at convergent-design.com. Otherwise it will be included in the next firmware update.

Best-

Ted O'Brien · October 29th, 2009, 12:26 PM

Great news! Thanks, Mike. Does that mean you got an Xbox for the lab? You know... For "testing"

Mike Schell · October 29th, 2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted O'Brien

Great news! Thanks, Mike. Does that mean you got an Xbox for the lab? You know... For "testing"

Hi Ted-
One of our guys in manufacturing area brought in his XBOX as a temporary loaner, it cost us a BBQ lunch, but it was worth it.

Best-

Ted O'Brien · December 2nd, 2009, 05:00 PM

Hey Mike,

I just updated the firmware on our units to 1.1.150 and I'm still seeing this issue with crushed blacks when using the HDMI input. Any thoughts? Is this only on the HDMI output of the XBox? This time I'll take you up on that beta testing if it's still an option.

Thanks,
TedO

Ted O'Brien · December 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM

Whoops! Just looked at the firmware notes and it mentions "HDMI input color setting menu option" Going to go check that out. BRB!!

Ted O'Brien · December 3rd, 2009, 12:05 PM

That did it! Setting it to the Legal setting works great and now the signal is identical to the SDI input. Thanks for the fix!!!

October 19th, 2009, 04:55 PM	#16
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	HD-SDI vs. HDMI Should I be getting a different picture quality when I use the SDI vs. the HDMI inputs? We are capturing video game footage out of a XBox 360 going into the nanoFlash via HDMI. The editors were complaining of crushed blacks. I switched to the SDI input and all is well. The new signal path is HDMI out of the XBox into a nanoConnect, out of the nanoConnect HD-SDI into the nanoFlash. Is this a known issue? Any thoughts on why this is happening? Here's my setup: XBox 360 HDMI out to nanoConnect HD-SDI out to nanoFlash 1.0.112 SanDisk Extreme IV 16GB LongGOP, 50Mbps, MXF Import to Avid 4.0.2 Unfortunately I don't have anything that can generate bars that has HDMI output. Please advise...

October 19th, 2009, 05:18 PM	#18
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Ted, I have alerted our Support Manager. You have provided us with the detailed information that we need to try to solve your problem. We will report back. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

October 22nd, 2009, 07:42 AM	#23
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Lance, Our audio level meters in playback were intermittent. On a regular basis, they would go to zero, then return to showing the normal levels. We decided to stop showing the level meters on playback until we could fix the problem. I am sorry that this caused you some concern (actually a major scare). I know we are working on SD Playback, but I do not know the schedule at this moment. What is, or is not going to be in our next release changes quite frequently, so I have a hard time keeping up. For example, I discussed "Low Latency audio", for audio embedded in the HD-SDI stream two days ago. Last night I was surprised to find out that this is expected in the next releaes. (On the nanoFlash, analog audio is already "low latency".) __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

December 2nd, 2009, 05:00 PM	#28
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	HDMI Issue still present Hey Mike, I just updated the firmware on our units to 1.1.150 and I'm still seeing this issue with crushed blacks when using the HDMI input. Any thoughts? Is this only on the HDMI output of the XBox? This time I'll take you up on that beta testing if it's still an option. Thanks, TedO

October 19th, 2009, 05:11 PM	#17
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Can I make a guess? Gamma? 2.2/1.8? Otherwise, something is perhaps looking for setup which shouldn't be in this case, but it sure is indicated.

October 19th, 2009, 05:58 PM	#20
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	The video looks better XBox->nanoConnect->nanoFlash. There are more details in the blacks and dark areas of the shot. I would hate to say correct as I don't have a way to bring in bars via HDMI. I recorded some test bars out of the Avid via HD-SDI and played them back into the scopes and everything tested out perfectly. Should be easy for you guys to throw some bars at it SDI and HDMI and see if there's a shift. Please let me know what you find out.

October 22nd, 2009, 07:05 AM	#22
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Hi Dan & Mike, I tested the AJA IO HD connected to my DVCAM player via component sending a HD SDI signal to the NanoFlash. I found it worked fine but too big to mount onto my dockable camera so I have purchased a Black Magic Design Mini Analogue to SDI converter which I am installing and testing tomorrow to record SD to the NanoFlash. Today I used my new portable SDHD SDI monitor for the first time. When we finished shooting our links I decided to check the recording and do a playback. When I pressed play on the NanoFlash I noticed no audio levels, well it scared the hell out of me then I remembered reading somewhere that it was a known issue. The monitor only has an earphone socket, when I put the headphones on to my great relief and audio was there. Do you have any idea when SD playback will be implemented. Thanks

October 23rd, 2009, 12:32 AM	#24
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Thanks Dan as long as it record audio that's fine, I seldom look at the Nano during playback. My HD/SD monitor has the option to display's audio levels which I have now switched on and when I playback via HDMI or SDI I can see the audio from the Nano.

October 29th, 2009, 12:26 PM	#26
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	Great news! Thanks, Mike. Does that mean you got an Xbox for the lab? You know... For "testing"

December 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM	#29
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	Whoops! Just looked at the firmware notes and it mentions "HDMI input color setting menu option" Going to go check that out. BRB!!

December 3rd, 2009, 12:05 PM	#30
Ted O'Brien New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 23	That did it! Setting it to the Legal setting works great and now the signal is identical to the SDI input. Thanks for the fix!!!