Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

See the full press release at Convergent Design unveils Gemini 4:4:4 at DVInfo.net

This is your official Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4 discussion thread.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Congratulations to Convergent Design on the announcement of the Gemini video recorder. I am sure you will have lots of interest in this unit at most levels within the industry.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Yes - this is extraordinary news! C-D - you guys are amazing.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Am surprised there isn't a economy recording mode for if you're low on storage.

However, I will say that 1.8'' isn't going to be the smallest SSD out there for long:

PC Perspective - Intel releases m-SATA form factor line of SSD's

Include a proper enclosure, and you've got yourself an even smaller SSD to record to.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

This is a game-changer for the F3. The only things one could ask for would be a higher-resolution monitor and some baked-in native codec support. Other than that, the specs, size, weight, codec support, etc. are all very impressive. Great job CD.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

It will be interesting to see how CD might market the 2 devices at two different fields .

I'm guessing the Nanoflash would still be the 1st option for older generation cameras like the XLH1 and 8 bit cameras like the AF101.

The Gemini would be the 1st option for newer 10 bit camera like the F3 and whatever else is next around the corner.

I guess there would be a big overlap, like with the EX series, which would be dependent upon customers specific budgets and requirements, computing power etc. No doubt we'll be seeing F3's paired with the Nanoflash, and AF101's paired with the Gemini.

Does the Gemini have HDMI in? I couldn't see it on the pictures. The HV30 with a Gemini would have been an interesting one to see.....

Will the Gemini run on the same batteries as the Nanoflash?

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Gemini has HDMI out. Inputs are SDI.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Since there is no HDMI in, someone has to build a HDMI 1.3 to 3G-SDI converter box to make the TM900 work on this thing.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

I'm a little surprised CD did not offer a 'sneak-peek' of the Gemini at the same time the F3 was released.

There may be a couple of Ki-Pro Mini and Cinideck owners out there that may have chosen to hold off on their purchases with that in mind...

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

But, then again, there is nothing to prevent one from selling those KiPro Minis or Cinedecks to buy a Gemini 4:4:4 ;)

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

I think their timing was exquisite. There is only one affordable recorder on the market right now that is well positioned to take advantage of the F3 with the 444 software upgrade. Convergent Design is not in that much of bind to release information. Sony's recorder pricing won't be announced until NAB as they are trying to guage the competition. Convergent Design has announced their recorder 2 days before Sony is going to have their next press junket so there is a bit of media vacuum right now and now it has been filled!

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Hello Everyone,

If you are interested in the GEMINI 4:4:4, Check out are You Tube channel, for a teaser Video.

YouTube - ConvergentDesign's Channel

Best Regards

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Question for the Convergent Design people. The monitor is to be daylight viewable. Do you know how many NITS the screen puts out when in daylight viewable mode and are you planning to put a transreflective layer on top of the screen to add to the daylight viewability?

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Hi Jack-
We looked at this form factor, but it does not have enough board real estate to create a 512GB drive (at least with the current technology). The 1.8" SSDs used in the Gemini will be available in 256 and 512GB capacities. 512GB = one hour of uncompressed recording at 1080p24 10-bit.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Simon,

We try hard not to release product annoucements too far in advance.

Our goal is not to prevent people from purchasing other company's equipment.

Here is why this was announced yesterday.

We will be showing the Gemini 4:4:4 at NAB 2011, in Booth C11126, near Sony.

We have ads coming out in many magazines for their NAB issues, so that people will know about the product, and hopefully come to our booth to see it.

One magazine, American Cinematographer, with one of our full-page ads, should be mailed shortly, maybe tomorrow. As such, we wanted the annoucnment out today, so people would have more information available, as opposed to an ad, which has to leave out quite a few details.

Our ad will be in other major magazines, timed for their NAB issues.

We could have announced this months ago, but we did not think that was appropriate.

Of course, we are not ready to deliver this today, but it is very important, for any company in this industry to promote their new products at NAB.

We expect, and hope, to be swamped at NAB! It should be a fun time. Most people have no idea how much work goes into designing a very high tech, leading edge product, like this, from scratch.

We spent months just checking and double checking the circuit design, then the circuit board design, then the milled alluminum case, then testing SSD's and finally testing our actual circuits.

It is very rewarding when many people are pleased with our designs.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Andrew,

Our 5" Monitor puts out 800 Nits (Cd/M2).

This level of brightness, from a 5" monitor is a real advance.

Most monitors of this size put out 300 to 250 Nits.

The monitor has a LED Backlight and In-Plane Switching.

This is a very advanced monitor.

No, we will not be adding a transreflective layer.

Typical, normal brightness levels will be near 10%, with higher levels used when outdoors in the bright sunlight.

Gemini 4:4:4 Brochure
 

Here's the Gemini 4:4:4 Brochure with Tech Specs.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Friends,

Here is an interview with Mike Schell, that provides more details about the Gemini 4:4:4.

Convergent Design unveils Gemini 4:4:4,
A Revolutionary Uncompressed Video Recorder

Our Newsletter editor Amber Cowles, interviews Mike Schell, President of Convergent Design, about the new Gemini 4:4:4 full uncompressed recorder.

Can you give us a brief description of your new HD recorder: Gemini 4:4:4?

Gemini 4:4:4 is a revolutionary full uncompressed HD recorder which stores video/audio data onto two removable 1.8” SSDs (Solid State Drive) for playback/transfer to a PC/MAC. Gemini supports most HD/2K formats in 4:2:2/4:4:4, 8/10-bit formats with single-link HD-SDI/3G or dual-link. A built-in 5.0” sunlight viewable (800 cd/m²), 24-bit, 800x480 color LCD touch-screen serves as a high-quality monitor and playback screen. Gemini also features an industry first: the unique ability to record to both drives simultaneously, creating identical masters.

The 1-lb Gemini with milled aluminum case measures 5.4 x 4.5 x 1.1” or about the same size as the popular SmallHD DP6 monitor. But, of course, Gemini also includes recording, playback, image processing, etc, etc.

Convergent Design has been very successful with the nanoFlash, why go uncompressed?

With an installed base of over 3,500 recorders, nanoFlash has been a huge home-run for Convergent Design. However, while many users are very pleased with the 8-bit MPEG compressed video from the nanoFlash, we’ve received continual requests for higher bit-rates, 10-bit, and greater color sampling (4:4:4) as well as 2K/1080p50/60 support. All these goals were simply outside the design capabilities of nanoFlash.

After considerable technical research, we determined that an affordable uncompressed HD recorder was now feasible. This, coupled with the recent introduction of low-noise high-quality cameras, like the Sony F3, opened the market for our third-generation recorder.

Are you guys crazy, uncompressed is a ton of data?

Yes, uncompressed is a lot of data, typically in the range of 125 to 150 MBytes/sec (1000 to 1200 Mbits/sec). But, technology advancements now make full-uncompressed workflow quite manageable and affordable. For example, using the new 10Gbps Thunderbolt technology from Apple/Intel, it is now very reasonable to edit uncompressed using a laptop. New $180, 3-TByte (TeraByte) HDDs enable portable RAID arrays with 9-12 TBytes of storage (sufficient for 18-24 hours of uncompressed 1080p24 4:2:2 10-bit).

Full uncompressed capture/editing enables the ultimate in quality with no compression artifacts, added noise, or multigenerational losses. But, you still have the option to work in CineForm/DNxHD/ProRes, etc. via a simple encode process (using programs such as Compressor or Media Encoder).

So Gemini lets you choose any CODEC you want?

Precisely! The uncompressed HD-SDI output from your camera is exactly the same data that is fed to the internal in-camera hardware CODEC. While your camera (and most recorders) only supports one CODEC, Gemini frees you to use any CODEC/format.

We found that oftentimes the workflow and editing system is not well defined at the beginning of a production, or the client may want the footage in a different CODEC/format. Gemini gives you the flexibility to deliver accordingly, at the best possible quality levels. So after two weeks of shooting, when the director brings word that you’re changing from PC to MAC (or vice versa), you’re ready to encode that pristine uncompressed footage into a new CODEC / format, while maintaining the highest possible quality.

Consider also, that all professional video is ultimately transferred off the capture-media (typically Flash) onto HDDs, optical media or LTO Tape. Using high-performance multi-core processors, you can transfer and encode with little additional time penalty (compared to a simple transfer).

For example, using an 8-core Mac Pro we’re getting transfer (SSD → HDD) + encode (to ProRes HQ) at 1/2 real-time. So, 30 minutes of uncompressed 1080p24 video requires a total of 15 minutes to transfer off the SSD and encode to ProRes. By comparison, a simple transfer of the same footage (without encode) occurs in 1/3 real-time, or 10 minutes.

Earlier you mentioned dual recording capability, can you elaborate on this feature?

Gemini offers two recording modes: span data across both drives, for longer record times or simultaneously record the same video to both SSDs, creating two masters (auto backup).

Two masters bring the added insurance against lost footage, while enabling some innovative work flows. For example, one SSD can go directly to the online edit station, while the second SSD can be used to generate offline proxies or H.264 footage for mobile devices / internet upload.

Speaking of media, why the switch from Compact Flash to SSD?

Compact Flash is a great choice for most compressed recorders, but it simply lacks the required performance for uncompressed video. Compact Flash tops out at about 90 Mbytes/sec, while uncompressed video ranges from 100 to over 300 Mbytes/sec; so clearly, it’s impossible to record uncompressed video onto a single CF card. Additionally, CF card capacity maxes out at 128GB, while SSDs are now available up to 512GB.

Built on cutting-edge 25nm technology, Gemini SSDs provide read/write speeds of 415/260 (Mbytes/sec) respectively. For most video formats, a single SSD has a sufficient bandwidth; however, 1080p50/60 formats generate over 300 Mbytes/sec, requiring us to strip the data across both drives. We do, however, combine the data into a single file during the offload of the SSDs to your MAC/PC.

High-Speed SSD media is currently available in the following sizes and storage capacities:
256GB SSD → 32 minutes @ 1080p24 4:2:2, 10-bit
512GB SSD → 64 minutes @ 1080p24 4:2:2, 10-bit

Using 512GB SSDs and spanning across the two drives, you’ll get a generous 128 minutes of uncompressed 1080p24 record time on Gemini (without swapping drives).

OK, but everyone knows that uncompressed recorders are big, heavy, power-hungry, and expensive. What makes Gemini so different?

Gemini follows the highly-successful design philosophy of nanoFlash to make the smallest, lightest-weight, lowest-power recorder that current technology will allow. So instead of building a PC-based recorder, which consumes 60 to 75 watts of power, we designed full-custom hardware drawing 8 to 15 Watts. Rather than designing proprietary Flash mags, we utilized off-the-shelf SSD drives, dramatically reducing both the media and transfer-station cost. (Editor’s note: The Gemini recorder package includes a 6Gbps SSD transfer station).

Machined from solid aluminum billets, the case is very strong and lightweight, making Gemini ideal for extreme environments. The lower power enables completely silent operation (no fans) and a wide operating temperature range (projected to be -30 to +50 C).

At a volume of only 10% greater than the hand-held nanoFlash, a weight of only 1 lb, and a low-power budget, Gemini is far smaller/lighter/less power hungry than most uncompressed or compressed recorders!

Gemini obviously supports 4:4:4, but what about S-Log?

S-Log, as you may know, maps 12-bit (or higher) linear data into a 10-bit log space (for transmission over HD-SDI, which is limited to 10-bits). Gemini maintains the highest possible quality, by recording 10-bit S-Log video in an uncompressed format, so there’s absolutely no added noise or artifacts.

Gemini also supports user-programmable 1D viewing LUTs, which can be selectively enabled for one or more of the SDI/HDMI outputs. Additionally, in dual record mode, you can simultaneously record the native S-Log video to one SSD (online) and the same video with burned-in LUTs to the second SSD (offline / H.264 generation).

Will Gemini have a 3D or stereo option?

Yes. From the beginning Gemini was conceived as a dual stream recorder. Gemini will independently record two video streams to individual SSDs, for all formats except 1080p50/60. You can synchronously play-out the two individual streams or combine into side-by side, 50/50 composite or anaglyph formats. Gemini uniquely allows you to simultaneously view 3D video in multiple formats, such as side by side and 50/50 composite, which should be very helpful in 3D camera alignment.

Is Gemini going to replace the nanoFlash?

By no means, Gemini compliments the nanoFlash. nanoFlash will continue to find applications needing long record times (10 hours), and/or requiring a strictly compressed workflow. At $1/minute (50 Mbps) for the Compact Flash media, nanoFlash still offers the lowest media cost for broadcast quality video.

Everyone hates to see their latest purchase upstaged, will Gemini be obsolete in 6 months?

HD will be the mainstream delivery format for the foreseeable future. Gemini already supports all the major HD formats up 1080p60 as well as S-Log, 4:4:4, Dual-Link, 3G, and 16-Channel Audio. 3D will be available, through an optional firmware upgrade. So, it’s really hard to imagine obsolescence any time soon.

Based on customer feedback, Convergent Design added feature after feature on the nanoFlash, at no charge. Will Gemini follow a similar pattern?

Yes, although most of the nanoFlash features, with the exception of pre-record buffer, should be enabled when Gemini ships. That said, we anticipated many special requests, so Gemini was designed with 5X the programmable logic compared to nanoFlash, giving us quite a bit of room to grow (feature-wise, that is).

What are the target markets/applications?

If you a filmmaker/cinematographer/Indie producer (or aspire to be one), then Gemini is a perfect choice. Sony F3 owners with S-Log and 4:4:4 will likely find Gemini an invaluable addition, as these capabilities are far beyond the native recording capability within the camera. The lightweight and low-power of the Gemini, make it ideal for Steadicam operators and anyone shooting in extreme environments, such in jungles, underwater, at high-altitude, etc.

OK, Gemini offers the ultimate quality and flexibility, but is it affordable?

The base Gemini package includes the recorder, an SSD to eSATA transfer-station, AC power supply and cables in a custom-fitted hard-case for US $5995 (retail). Prices for the 256GB and 512GB SSDs will be announced at NAB.

Other recorders may offer different features, but no recorder offers better video quality than Gemini 4:4:4.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Congratulations on what looks to be a useful, well made new recorder. As with the nano, it appears you have come up with a flexible design that does much more than anything else on the market.

I have a question about record times. You mention:
What is the record time for 1080i59.94 4:2:2 10-bit?

Billy

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Billy,

I tried to provide this information in the text of this message, but it was difficult to format.

Thus, I have added this important information in the form of an attachment, a Word Document.

The recording times vary, 8-Bit verus 10-Bit, Frame Rate, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, etc.

To answer your question directly:

With one 256 GB SSD, 1080i59.94, 4:2:2 10-Bit is 27 Minutes.

With one 512 GB SSD, it is 54 minutes.

With two 512 GB SSD, it is 108 minutes.

And of course, one can hot-swap, thus extending the maximum record times.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Everyone; for a handy dandy "real world" reference, an iPhone 3GS is about 469 nits, while the iPad is only 373 nits.

Apple's iPad - The AnandTech Review - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

I fished around a bit on the Internet for 1.8" 512GB SSD drives without any luck. Some 256GB SSD drives are available at arount $600 - $750. I have a couple of questions for Mike or Dan;

* What are the projected prices for the yet-to-be announced 512GB SSD drives in a ballpark amount?

* There is no mention of a projected/target delivery date for the Gemini?

* What would the target date for 3D functionality be?

* Any pics of the SSD transfer station available?

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Friends,

Here is our Gemini 4:4:4 Brochure.

The second page has the Technical Specifications.

Please note that the "Actual Size" image may not be actual size, depending on your monitor and zoom factor.

The actual size is 5.4" wide, 4.5" tall, and 1.1" thick.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Bruce,

We are not ready to disclose the prices of the SSD's. Too much may change between now and NAB.

We intend to announce the SSD prices at NAB.

You will not find our 1.8" SSD drives on the internet. These are the latest and greatest from a reputable SSD manufacturer.

Your ballpack price for the 128 GB SSD is "in the ballpark", but is subject to change.

We hope to show 3D funcationality at NAB. The price of the 3D Upgrade is $1,995. We have lots of this functionality working in our lab right now. It has been our goal for months now to show the Gemini 4:4:4 with 3D working at NAB 2011.

Gemini 4:4:4 3D is a one unit solution. The nano3D consists of two nanoFlashes plus special firmware.

Thus, one needs to purchase a Gemini 4:4:4 plus the $1,995, for a very sophisticated 3D recorder and playback device.

Especially important is that one can output a 50%-50% composite output via one HD-SDI output, and a second HD-SDI output (or on our built in monitor) can be Anaglyph.

This is a very flexible 3D device. The above are just examples of what can be performed.

Of course other items such as Image Flip, Image Flop or both on one or both inputs is possible.


Our goal for for shipping the Gemini 4:4:4 is by the end of July, 2011.

This is a goal, not a promise. We are a very long way into this project, as we started last summer.

We have a lot working, such as recording, playing back, HD-SDI inputs, HD-SDI outputs, displaying footage on the Monitor, etc. But we have more to finish.

We do not have pictures of the transfer station yet.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Great work guys! I have a few questions for you:

1) What camera outputs 2048x1080?

2) Have you tested it with an Alexa? If so, how does the Alexa's 2880x1620 get recorded?

3) Will you be selling additional offload docking stations? Or will standard external Sata docking stations work as well?

4) Will the DPX feature be added by the time the Gemini is released? How would the audio then be recorded, ie WAV, BWF?

5) With the MOV wrapper, does it work natively in After Effects?

6) Will you release a MOV to DPX converter? I ask because I find image sequences to be smoother and easier to scrub.

7) Will it have the ability to record 2 1080/30p 422 cameras at the same time, NOT Stereo 3D but like a multi-camera shoot.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

That's great! A good 300 NITS higher than I was hoping.

Genesis of Gemini?
 

Hi Dan,

I found my clairvoyant post, dated April 23, 2010:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...nk-hd-sdi.html

It's interesting to look back at what was said at the time, from

"this is pure science fiction"

to

"we had not thought of this."

All the best,

Jeff

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Jeff,

We took your request for 4:4:4 into consideration when we started designing the Gemini 4:4:4 last year.

We attempted to listen to our customers.

But, we were very happy to see such a capable camera, such as the Sony F3, come out with 4:4:4 and other features at such an affordable price.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dan,

What you've done is pretty amazing, and will probably drive sales of 4:4:4 cameras.

Best of luck to you!

Jeff

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Jeff,

Thanks!

I am getting great reports that our nanoFlash works exceptionally well with the Sony F3.

The Gemini 4:4:4 is a perfect match for the Sony F3.

So, one can use the nanoFlash, if desired and achieve great results.

Or one can use the Gemini 4:4:4 if one wants the ultimate in quality.

If one is going to upgrade their F3 with the firmware update, then the Gemini 4:4:4 is definitely the way to go.

Or if one is going to record 3D with two F3's (with the 3D firmware upgrade), then the Gemini 4:4:4 with our 3D upgrade is the way to go.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Hi Dan,

Just when I thought I would not have to buy new gear this year you come out with a recorder that fits with wish list. I will stay posted for when they hit the market.

You and the team continue to stay on step with technology and offer products that help the shooters make money. Nice work.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Paul,

Thanks for the kind words.

We are getting a very positive reaction to our Gemini 4:4;4.

We have been very busy for months. The positive reaction makes it all worthwhile.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Codex must be sweating bullets now.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Dan,
I understand why you didn't include HDMI IN in such a high end product, but for those who would like to use it with cameras that only cater HDMI, do you have an adaptor or any kind of solution for them?

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

There are several HDMI to HD-SDI converters available with the best being from Aja and BlackMagic Design. These tend to cost $400-500.

PS Something Dan said before is that there are no 10bit HDMI outputs on any camera. This is something most people don't realize.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Hey Dan I am very impressed well done guys.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Steve,

I was exhausted by the end of the day yesterday and very busy this morning.

I am sorry for my delay in responding.

1. For one, the Iconix camera. There may be others.

2. No, not yet. We do not have an Alexa in our lab.
We intend to work closely with ARRI.

3. Yes, additional transfer stations will be available at very modest cost.
Our SSD's are 1.8", thus there are not a lot of 1.8" docking stations at this time.

4. I do not expect DPX to be in our initial firmware release, but it may.
We want to supply DPX, it is very important to us
but we do not want to delay the release of our recorder.
We are planning a Quicktime to DPX converter which will create ".WAV" audio files.
We may consider "BWF" which are very similar.

5. I do not know yet. But full uncompressed in a Quicktime Wrapper is widely supported.

6. Yes.

7. With the 3D Upgade, most likely.

We need to be a little further along before we make promises for some of your questions.

Our unit is doing very well, but we are still hard at work.

I will refine my answers over time.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Lance,

Thank you very much.

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear Mike, Dan and EVERYONE at CD,

You are the Apple of the video production profession - as opposed to post production.
I say this with the highest respect and in terms of innovation. In fact you are better with respect to pricing & many other aspects Apple (as good as they are - some will debate that) still lack in.

Congratulations on your upcoming product. Can't wait to see what else you are bringing to market over the next few years.

Cheers

Re: Official: Convergent Design Gemini 4:4:4
 

Dear David,

Wow!

It is certainly nice for you to say that.

You made my day!