4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Are there any "affordable" camcorders/cameras that output 4:4:4 for the Gemini to record? (By affordable, I mean something under $30K.)

Also, I assume that that the HD/SDI connector must be used for 4:4:4, or can HDMI output that?

Ken

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

The Sony F3 will have a 4;4:4 output.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Moot point - Gemini does not have HDMI in.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

So? Just place a small HDMI to SDI converter between the camera and the Gemini.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

I guess. Most of them would be in the region of +/- $500, plus its an extra box to try and attach to your rig, but yeah it would work no doubt.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Thanks for the responses guys!

There's still something I'm not clear on. Does the HD-SDI connection need to be dual-link, in order to do 4:4:4?

Ken

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

The way I understand it, you should also be able to get 4:4:4 from a 3G-SDI signal. I'm not clear on whether the Gemini will record two simultaneous 3G signals, or just 2 HD-SDI / or one 3G. Perhaps Dan could chime in?

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Hi Dave-
Gemini can record 4:4:4 as a dual link or single link 3G signal. Gemini can support dual 3G 4:4:4 inputs of 1080p24 and 1080p25. We are still testing dual 1080p30 4:4:4. Single or dual 1080p50/60 4:4:4 is simply not possible (bandwidth too high for the SSDs).

Dual stream recording does require the extra-cost 3D upgrade (US $1995).

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Mike,
Thanks for the clarification.
VERY IMPRESSIVE !!!!!

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

HDMI 1.3, supports much higher data rate (10Gbps) than Double-link.
rafael

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

I actually think the current HDMI spec, 1.4, is very capable of carrying 4:4:4.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Peter, I stand corrected. The HDMI spec has evolved and continues to adapt to work with 4K and 3D signals. Unfortunately, so do the connectors types that are required to support these higher data rates. Wikipedia has a good summary on the HDMI evolution and I have attached a graphic showing the 5 types of HDMI connectors.

For field work, the SDI standards and BNC connector would be the preferred connector for reliably transferring high data rates off a camera and into a portable recorder.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Dear Ken,

While the name of our new recorder is Gemini 4:4:4, it will also record from 4:2:2 cameras.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Hi Dan & Mike,
Well I have to say I am a contender for the Gemini 4:4:4 for the past 12 months I have been working all my projects in uncompressed. With the addition of the Gemini I should be able to save 9-10 hours on my project because I will no longer be undertaking long rendering times. Having recently upgrade to the Tricaster to TXCD850 it will be interesting to see the quality of the recording to the Gemini. Will your dealer in Australia have a demo unit as I really will need to see the quality of the screen and the costing of the SSD drives.

Cheers
Lance

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Is nothing about the connector but about the specs.
The average HDMI we are using is 1.3.
This supports 10 Gbps transfer that means that is able to run 3 x 444 streams.
Is like 6 folds faster than a single SDI.

From Wikipedia:
Version 1.3
HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 and increased the bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbit/s).

The only problem with HDMI is the crappy connector.
rafael

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Dear Lance,

It is nice to hear that you are interested in the Gemini 4:4:4.

Our Australian Distributor, New Magic, is very interested in the Gemini 4:4:4.

I feel that their dealers in Australia will be very interested also.

So, just contact your dealer and express an interest.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

The main problem with HDMI is that all connectors are 8 bit on cameras. And I even wonder if the Ki Mini and Atomos actually use 10bit HDMI parts as these parts are very sparse.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

Hi Steve,

Though this is true of now although I am sure you know that the specs do allow deeper bit depths. The camera manufacturers just haven't implemented it yet and they wuled need the codecs to take advnantage of the extra 2 bits and very few pro cameras do 10 bit codecs either. To be fair we have only just started seeing 10 bit monitors/LCDs appearing in the last few years so take up is slow. In case you may not be aware there is debate as to whether the Sony FS100 may have 10 bit HDMI. A few quoted sources suggest it may be.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

I really hope it is 10bit but that is not like Sony to be a pioneer.

Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?
 

The FS-100 has 8 bit HDMI. Confirmed from Sony.