nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Hi Dan et al,

Can you update us on how you are coming along with getting the nanoFlash to read the TC over HDMI?

I believe the FS100 can output 1080 60p over HDMI; so, I am wondering if the nanoFlash will be able to record it.

Thanks

EDIT: I just realized that Sony probably used HDMI instead of SDI because you cannot get 1080 60p over a single SDI whereas you can with HDMI. Now we need a recorder that can handle it.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

I second that question, Dan.

Oh, and while we're at it: I'd expect the new firmware to also contain a fix for cranking errors while recording MXF. I do understand CD is very busy with their new great device, but hopefully we nanoFlash users aren't going to be forgotten :)

And last, but not least: how about the long awaited feature of mixing the SDI-embedded audio with the analog input?

TIA,

Piotr

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Steve and Piotr,

We are going to balance our needs to finish the Gemini 4:4:4 with adding new features to the nanoFlash.

While we have been very busy with the Gemini 4:4:4, we have also been working on the nanoFlash firmware.

We are working on the timecode support for the Sony FS100.

The nanoFlash cannot support 1080p60. The Sony Module that we use will not support 1080p60.

I do not expect that we will be adding "+2 Channel" audio support in the next firmware release.
This is something that I personally want us to add to the nanoFlash as soon as possible.

Piotr, I will be checking on the "Cranking Errors" while record MXF. I will check with our lab.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear dan,

For me, working in the African field, away from basecamp for weeks on a row, a good compression is essential. In other words, I will never be able to work with the Gemini for that reason, though I certainly believe that it is a wonderful device.

However: 1080p/60 is definitly the way to go for many of us. With cameras arriving now, producing 1080p/60 I am urgentely looking for a 'nanoflash' like device that can handle it. I suppose there will be others waiting for that. So please take note that the Gemini is not a workable solution for all of us. I would be very happy to pay for a (hardware) upgrade of my nano to make 1080p/60 happen.

Please let us know your thoughts on develeopments like that.

Cees

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Hi Cees,
It's my understanding that because the NanoFlash is built around Sony's Torino encoder chip, we're pretty restricted to the current XDcam compression codecs (though CD has done an amazing job getting them to work at higher bit rates as well.) I'm assuming that the Nano architecture is built for a maximum input speed of HD-SDI, and may not be able to accept a 3G (or dual link) signal required for 1080p/60.
Having recently bought an F3, I'd love to be able to record 1080p/60 on my NanoFlash, but I just don't see it happening from a practical perspective.
And though I'm nervous about the quantity of data the Gemini records, I have a feeling it will become an important part of my kit soon after release.
On the other hand, if enough of us petition a compression codec add-on box that could attach to the Gemini, perhaps that's something that C-D would consider in the future. I'd personally love to be able to have some sort of high end (ie - 3G / 10bit) codec option for native gemini recording, which would doubltess be an outboard encoder box since I'm sure the current Gemini is jammed to the gills with components, and the extra power requirements and heat dissipation would be an issue as well.
Just my impressions.
Best,
Dave S

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Cees and Dave,

I just want you to know that we are listening.

You want a small, low power device that can record 1080p60, in great quality, using a compressed codec.

A built in, high quality monitor would also be desirable, but you have not specifically said that.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dan, if I understand you, you are working on something?

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dan, If you can deliver that you are the man :-)

I certainly think that a device like that should be the future replacement of the nano. The Gemini is not, it is another wonderful device, but imho for another target group of customers.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Oh, and if you also include the long hoped for easy accessible option for different setting profiles, than it must be close to perfect.....

Cees

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

And 10 bit.

I plan to use S-Log in the future but don't want to go to an uncompressed workflow. 4.2.2 & 10 bit @ 1080p60 is plenty for me.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Hello Guys. Last Week I get From Sony PMW-f3 and NEX-FS100. yes both are amazing cameras but i have problem with FS100 output on NanoFlash. When I set on camera 24p 1080p output Nanoflash loosing Source . on 720p everything is ok. If i can not record From FS100 on NanoFlash 1080p I will very disappoint.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

I set on HDMI out 1080i and get on Nanoflash 1080i60 when set on nanoflash remove 3:2 puldown get 23.98 psf. is it correct setup?? also another problem. when i use camera record button nanoflash did not start recording. any suggestions?

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear David,

The nanoFlash, with our current firmware 1.6.248 is not yet setup to extract the timecode from the HDMI output of the FS100.

Thus, one can not, at this time, press record on the FS100 and have the nanoFlash automatically start recording.

We hope to have this feature in our next firmware update.


If your FS100 is setup to output 23.976 (23.98) over 60, then it will be appropriate to activate Video|3:2 Pulldown Removal.

We have done lots of testing with the FS100 + nanoFlash, thus I feel that it will work fine for you, with the appropriate settings in the nanoFlash and FS100.

We will do our best to help you.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Dan Keaton. Thank you Very Much.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

I tried today at my dealer to do some test shots with the nano on a FS100, but did not manage to find the proper settings. The FS100 was on 1080p25, nano connected to the camera with a hdmi cable, but whatever I tried the nano indicated NO SOURCE.

What are the proper settings in the nano and in the FS100 to get it working?

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Cees,

Did you set System|Source to HDMI?

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

I am afraid I did not :-)

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Cees,

Just to put your mind at ease, we have thoroughly tested the nanoFlash with the Sony FS100.

It works just fine.

While we have not yet implemented our planned feature to extract the FS100's timecode from HDMI, there is a simple workaround that will work for some:

Just setup the nanoFlash to generate timecode internally.

I fully realize that this is not a perfect solution.

I hope we will be able to extract the HDMI timecode in October.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

In the event there is someone out there dealing with this issue and they haven't heard of PluralEyes software, I think it is worth mentioning. Plural Eyes allows you to sync multiple sound sources from the same sound stage without the use of timecode. People using DSLRs for video work are familiar with this product. It has been getting lots of positive response from users and reviewers. Here's the product page....

Singular Software - PluralEyes

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dan, Just wondering if this means there is something around the corner?

Cees

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Cees,

I am sorry but I cannot talk about it right now.

We do not want to announce something now, and not be able to deliever it within 60 to 90 days.

We just started shipping of the Gemini 4:4:4's, and our plate is full right now.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Hi,

Can you give us some good fresh news about the FS100'S timecode via HDMI ?

Didier

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Dieder,

Mike Schell and I discussed this yesterday.

We want to work this in as soon as possible.

Background:

Last monnth we started shipping our Gemini 4:4:4 with initial firmware.

But, this initial firmware lacked some very important features.

We are just about done with a firmware update for the Gemini 4:4:4; final, thorough testing remains.

Now that this release is almost done, we want to add support for the FS100 timecode over HDMI to the nanoFlash firmware.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Thank's
Good news !

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dan,

One month further now. Is there any progress to report? Very much looking forward to it.

Cees

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Hi Dan,

Another attempt. Can you give us an update on the status?

Cees

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Cees,

I would like to give you a much more positive report, but I cannot at this time.

The ability to extract the Timecode from HDMI depends on the ability of the HDMI receiver.

We have to spend a lot of engineering time to prove whether we can extract the timecode or not.
Then we have to extract the timecode. This is much more complicated that it would appear, and it all depends on the specific HDMI receiver that we are using. Sony warned us about this issue.

We have been swamped and I am sorry that we have not been able to devote the necessary time to this project so far.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Well, all I can say is that myself and many FS100 users are really looking forward to the ability to extract TC - please do not forget that out of all cameras nowadays, it's the FS100 which is best suited for recording with the nanoFlash (both are 8 bit only, so no extra capabilities are "wasted" - they're like a perfect match). With the F3 and other cameras outputting 10bit through HD-SDI, the nanoFlash is starting to become obsolete - but not with the FS100!

And even though the internal AVCHD codec in this fine camera is really good, recording to he nanoFlash expands its capabilities to meet and surpass the HD broadcast minima (50 or more Mbps at 4:2:2). Also important (especially with multi-camera projects) is that the MPEG-2 codec (in mxf or mov wrapper) can be edited easier in most NLEs than AVCHD...

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Poitr,

Since you seem to be an experienced FS100/nano user I have two questions.

Yesterday I captured my first footage and noiced that the footage had significantly more banding (in the sky, from dark to light blue) than in the footage of my EX3, shot at about the same time/place. Both with nanoflash. it also seemsed that the FS100 footage was noisier, insteand of cleaner. Do you have a clue?

Second question: which PP do you use on your FS100? Do you have a PP that matches with your EX1/3?

Thanks, Cees

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Hi Cees,

I can confirm your observations of the FS100 recorded to the nanoFlash being prone to banding - however, I can't agree it's noisier!

In fact, when recorded in 220 Mbps I-frame, the FS100 it's noticeably less noisy and this might also explain the increased tendency to color banding. Normally, noise can be a limiting factor to banding (which is inevitable with 8 bit recording) - it acts as sort of "natural dithering"...

As to PP: no, I haven't found anything that would make my FS100 and EX1 pictures close enough for me to feel happy, and frankly I've given up trying. In my shooting scenario (90% of my gigs is multi-camera classical music recording), I'm deliberately using the 2 cameras to show different angles of the same scene. A typical stage lighting make those angles different enough to make the additional discrepancy between the 2 cameras almost unnoticeable...

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Cees,

Just to add that actually it may happen that the nanoFlash recording will be noisier than the FS100's internal AVCHD. Namely, when you record at very high gain settings; the internal compression smooths noise out while it's much more obvious in the less compressed nF clips (especially L-GoP at 100+ Mbps).

This is very similar to the EX1 rather noisy picture getting even more noisy with the nanoFlash....

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Well, Aja is the first to read the TC from the FS100's HDMI with the Ki Pro Mini (new firmware released a few weeks ago).

Is it me or is there a trend occurring with C-D's products? The nano was released and the XDR fell to the wayside. The Gemini is released and the nano falls to the wayside.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Steve,

That is not our intention.

We have just been swamped getting the Gemini 4:4:4 firmware perfect.

Testing 30 or so Gemini's every day for months has been a lot of work.

We have them recording in a loop mode most of the day and all night. Then we take out the SSD's and examine each and every frame on the SSD's.


We do similar testing on the nanoFlash so it takes us about a month to complete the testing of all of the features/options/bit-rates/settings etc. in the nanoFlash.

After the Gemini 4:4:4 was introduced, we need to add some very important, but missing features, audio, metadata, and playback of selected files. This has been accomplished.

Another project was developing ARRIRAW support for the Gemini 4:4:4. We shipped this to ARRI for their certification process last Thursday, with the certification process starting tomorrow.

But, we had added a few features to the nanoFlash during this period, but the firmware is not out of testing yet.

We have more features to add. One is the ability to trigger the nanoFlash based on signals from the camera embeded in the HD-SDI data stream. Since most camera manufacturers use a different scheme and since one manufacturer keeps this information a trade secret, it takes time to find this signal.

Another feature that is overdue is the ability to extract timecode from the HDMI output of the FS100.

If you have specific features that you would like for us to add, please share them with us.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Any news on the new nanoFlash firmware front?

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Dear Piotr,

Yes, after NAB we expect to release new firmware for the nanoFlash that includes the FS100 timecode over HDMI support and the HD-SDI Record Trigger Packet support.

The later allows one with an HD-SDI camera (certain brands include Canon C300, Sony and a few others) to press the camera's record button and have the nanoFlash start and stop as appropriate.
This is without using the timecode as a trigger.

Other enhancements will be included also.

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

these are great news Dan, it's nice to know that i don't have to double trigger and double check my FS100/nanoflash combo are recording,the nano flash has been and still a great combo with my PMW-350 and i'm very happy to know it will be so with the FS-100..you made many nano flash/Fs100 owners very happy with this news, and maybe it's the right time to tell other FS-100 owners (that don't have a nano flash) about the price drop of the nano flash.. nanoFlash.net - *nanoFlash HD/SDrecorder-playerUSB Card ReaderAC Power SupplyUser Manual on DVD2-Year Warranty*$1895.00**ORDER*Includes:Free FedEx 3 day *Shipping* Free Soft Case**
it's time to get another one this way both cameras share same codec/mb recording...:-)
thank you CD, and don't let us wait too long please....!!!! :-)
Samer Aslan

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

NEws about the firmware for nano flash/FS100 timecode hdmi support?
thanks
Samer

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

I just got my nanoflash, and im eagerly awaiting the release of the new firmware for hdmi timecode support with the fs 100 too.

also Samer, I have an fs 100 and a pmw 350k too!

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Still waiting......

Re: nanoFlash and FS100 Questions
 

Yup. Just like the birger adapter