Fade to Gray at Avid Technology

Christian Magnussen · July 22nd, 2009, 06:11 PM

A lot of people seem to forget that Avid is much more than Avid as in editing and a bit expensive hardware, or as they put it them selves on their webpage...

Markets Served

Television Editing and Finishing
Film Editing
Industrial Post-production
Broadcast Production
Broadcast Graphics
Professional Audio Production and Post-production
Live Sound Mixing
Consumer Audio
Consumer Video
Corporate and Small Business Video Post-production
Media Asset Management, Networking and Storage
Music Notation and Composition

They do sound of all sorts with Digidesign and m-Audio, lot's of facilities use Apple for editing video, maybe color but do use Protools for sound. Avid also now lets FCP use unity as a storage pool, a system that's proven.

The Beijing Olympics showcase with NBC describes pretty good how big and powerfull avid installations can be. France24 is also worth a look. On the other hand here in Norway NRK(Norwegian broadcasting corp.) are developing their own FCP solution for most editorial work and Color for grading to connect to a large filebased archive(petabyte size), news and sports are primarily Quantel, and if i don't remember wrong there are a good mix of playout servers and other gear from for expample Probel there to. I think you will find this all over, competition, companies buy what fit their needs, not the media or shareholders of providers such as Avid or Apple. After all, the costumers them selves now what challanges need to be met and not the corporate guys a wall street...

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm considering to let the next workstation of mine be a Macpro after being a windows person for 14 years(the last 4 in the world of edition), to edit in Media Composer and do color in...yep, Color.

Heath McKnight · July 23rd, 2009, 09:17 AM

This is interesting news, especially as Apple announces Final Cut Studio 3. I've been a Final Cut Pro user for 10 years now, and I'll probably never go over to Avid. When I taught film school, we tried to teach Avid but our students were always too confused.

But I know a lot of die hard Avid guys, and you still need to really know it to get any job that uses the system.

Heath

Theodore McNeil · July 28th, 2009, 11:21 AM

UPDATE 1-Avid posts wider-than-expected Q2 loss | Industries | Technology, Media & Telecommunications | Reuters

"The company reported a second-quarter net loss of $15.9 million..."

Heath McKnight · July 28th, 2009, 11:24 AM

Yeah everyone is doing bad, but I wonder how FCS 3 sales will fare. How is Vegas Pro 9 selling? Etc.

Heath

David Parks · July 28th, 2009, 02:39 PM

AFAIK Apple doesn't have to report whether Pro Apps makes or loses money. It is funded by the sale of iPods.

Avid is in a tough spot and they may still have to shed some more layers to survive as a separate company. In fact, Apple had better pray that Avid survives on its own because someone like Panasonic could buy them and give them a lot more stability.

Peter Moretti · July 28th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Parks

AFAIK Apple doesn't have to report whether Pro Apps makes or loses money. It is funded by the sale of iPods. ...

I've read that Apple has 1.3 million registered FCP users. How many are Pro Studio users, IDK.

But let's say that one quarter of them do the $299 upgrade to the latest version of FCPS. That's $150 million.

I don't believe pro apps is losing money for Apple.

Jason Lowe · July 29th, 2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

I've read that Apple has 1.3 million registered FCP users. How many are Pro Studio users, IDK.

But let's say that one quarter of them do the $299 upgrade to the latest version of FCPS. That's $150 million.

I don't believe pro apps is losing money for Apple.

The thing is, Apple has sold 1 million 3GS iPhones the first week it was released. That's 1 million customers who generate a monthly revenue stream through the cell phone contract and the apps store. What FCS makes is peanuts in comparison.

I'm glad Apple is seeing great financial and consumer success, but I just hope it doesn't continue to erode the professional side.

Jeff Krepner · July 29th, 2009, 09:54 AM

I was listening CNBC and they said the most profitable part of Apple's business is computer sales. The pro apps drives the sale of computers, so I doubt they look at just the profit from the software in and of itself.

Robert Sanders · July 29th, 2009, 04:44 PM

Personally, I like that the ProApps I use for a living are owned and supported by one of the most stable, creative and profitable companies in American these days. Oddly, some people see that as a negative.

I would be very uncomfortable knowing that my editing platform is at the mercy of a financially unstable company. Yet, to some, that makes Avid more attractive. **scratches head**

Jeff Krepner · July 30th, 2009, 07:57 AM

Excellent point Robert. It is nice knowing that the company that makes our tools is stable and making a profit instead of bleeding money (Sony, Avid). Also, people are dissapointed with certain parts of this release, but FCP is a runaway hit. That puts Apple in a tough spot, you can't totally rework the GUI and workflow in one release because you risk alienating (thus choosing not to upgrade) a big part of your clientele. I want the interface to be more Vegas like (or Speedrazor for those of you out there that remember) but I don't think that will happen anytime soon since it is too different. As far as Blu-ray support, I feel that if Apple doesn't want to build in better support, there are other options out there. I can't say that I have any clients asking for it yet. Blu-ray doesn't mean anything for the broadcast world (as in going out to TV), and even corporate and event work is still mostly standard def DVD.

I just got my upgrade in the mail... off to install it!

Heath McKnight · July 30th, 2009, 08:06 AM

I offered DVDs in 2001 and I don't think I had a client ask for a DVD until 2003. Seriously--they still wanted VHS! And some film festivals I was involved with didn't want DVD until about 2003, either. I couldn't believe that! But I mostly think it was because there weren't widespread and affordable options to create DVDs that were widely adopted until 2002 or so.

I see the same thing happening with BD, though we may see downloads and streaming (like Netflix, VUDU, etc.) before anyone widely accepts BD. However, BD sales are up 91% in the first half of 2009:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10288294-1.html

Heath

Alister Chapman · July 30th, 2009, 01:04 PM

I used to be an Avid editor for a facilities company. At the time it was the only serious option. I still have Media Composer with the latest version and dongle sitting on my Mac. Do I use it.... No. I now use FCP, why? The Avid GUI is so dated an inflexible, they have only recently enabled dragging and dropping selections of clips within the timeline. Every other NLE has been doing that for years. To get a simple HDSDi single in and out requires expensive Avid only hardware while FCP, Vegas and Premiere can all work with very effective low cost 3rd party cards.

Avid seems to be stuck in the past. I was told by someone from Avid that they have a serious issue with the core editing engine within their software. Because of the amount of large corporations and broadcasters with massive install bases of older Avid systems they dare not make major changes to some of their core software components. Doing so would risk loosing essential backwards compatibility. Because of this they have real problems going forwards. On the one hand any new software needs to work with a lot of older legacy Avid products to keep the big networks happy, on the other hand they need to make big changes to keep pace with FCP and all the other NLE producers.

In my opinion unless Avid open up their architecture to make it easier to work with 3rd party products they will struggle to survive.

Greg Laves · July 30th, 2009, 03:20 PM

13 or 14 years ago, I had a really great (expensive, $50k) Avid SD NLE sysytem. It was my first experience with any NLE. I found it to be very easy and intuitive to learn and to understand. I am amazed at all of the comments to the contrary. I had another guy working with me and neither of us had any prior experience working with the Avid or any other NLE, for that matter. We just picked it up on the fly and we did a lot of great work with it. We edited stuff that won local, national and international awards with that Avid. I left the business for several years. When I got back into video, I was looking for a new edit system. I wound up going with Premiere 6.5 because of luck, circumstance and a lack of big bucks for anything else. I bought a new retail bundle that was an amazingly cheap closeout ($39) and I later upgraded to CS3. CS3 seems to be a pretty good system and it easily handles my HDV footage but there are many times that I wish I could have my old Avid system back but with full HD capability. It just seemed to be much easier to translate my visions of what I wanted to achieve into working video. Interestingly, the guy who used to work for me is now working in Atlanta. He spent a couple of years shooting news. When he struck out on his own, he bought an Avid HD system because of his positive experience of working with my Avid. But he grew disallusioned with his Avid and he has now sold it and converted to FCP. He seems to be happy with FCP.

Heath McKnight · July 30th, 2009, 09:50 PM

Avid is still at the top of the pile, along with FCP. I think they'll both be around for a while. A few years back, I was on an HDV instructional tour with Douglas Spotted Eagle and he made a good point: Avid was a "legacy" product (my words) that saw minor updates, but nothing dramatic. He said he could see Final Cut Pro starting to do that (right again) and become like Avid. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.

He also made the point that Vegas was a bit of a radical departure from other NLEs and he was definitely right about that.

Heath

July 23rd, 2009, 09:17 AM	#32
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	This is interesting news, especially as Apple announces Final Cut Studio 3. I've been a Final Cut Pro user for 10 years now, and I'll probably never go over to Avid. When I taught film school, we tried to teach Avid but our students were always too confused. But I know a lot of die hard Avid guys, and you still need to really know it to get any job that uses the system. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 28th, 2009, 11:21 AM	#33
Theodore McNeil Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Centreville, Maryland Posts: 258	UPDATE 1-Avid posts wider-than-expected Q2 loss \| Industries \| Technology, Media & Telecommunications \| Reuters "The company reported a second-quarter net loss of $15.9 million..." __________________ http://twitter.com/tedmcneil

July 28th, 2009, 11:24 AM	#34
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yeah everyone is doing bad, but I wonder how FCS 3 sales will fare. How is Vegas Pro 9 selling? Etc. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 28th, 2009, 02:39 PM	#35
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	AFAIK Apple doesn't have to report whether Pro Apps makes or loses money. It is funded by the sale of iPods. Avid is in a tough spot and they may still have to shed some more layers to survive as a separate company. In fact, Apple had better pray that Avid survives on its own because someone like Panasonic could buy them and give them a lot more stability. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

July 29th, 2009, 04:44 PM	#39
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	Personally, I like that the ProApps I use for a living are owned and supported by one of the most stable, creative and profitable companies in American these days. Oddly, some people see that as a negative. I would be very uncomfortable knowing that my editing platform is at the mercy of a financially unstable company. Yet, to some, that makes Avid more attractive. scratches head __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

July 22nd, 2009, 06:11 PM	#31
Christian Magnussen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 191	A lot of people seem to forget that Avid is much more than Avid as in editing and a bit expensive hardware, or as they put it them selves on their webpage... Markets Served Television Editing and Finishing Film Editing Industrial Post-production Broadcast Production Broadcast Graphics Professional Audio Production and Post-production Live Sound Mixing Consumer Audio Consumer Video Corporate and Small Business Video Post-production Media Asset Management, Networking and Storage Music Notation and Composition They do sound of all sorts with Digidesign and m-Audio, lot's of facilities use Apple for editing video, maybe color but do use Protools for sound. Avid also now lets FCP use unity as a storage pool, a system that's proven. The Beijing Olympics showcase with NBC describes pretty good how big and powerfull avid installations can be. France24 is also worth a look. On the other hand here in Norway NRK(Norwegian broadcasting corp.) are developing their own FCP solution for most editorial work and Color for grading to connect to a large filebased archive(petabyte size), news and sports are primarily Quantel, and if i don't remember wrong there are a good mix of playout servers and other gear from for expample Probel there to. I think you will find this all over, competition, companies buy what fit their needs, not the media or shareholders of providers such as Avid or Apple. After all, the costumers them selves now what challanges need to be met and not the corporate guys a wall street... Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm considering to let the next workstation of mine be a Macpro after being a windows person for 14 years(the last 4 in the world of edition), to edit in Media Composer and do color in...yep, Color.

July 29th, 2009, 09:54 AM	#38
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	I was listening CNBC and they said the most profitable part of Apple's business is computer sales. The pro apps drives the sale of computers, so I doubt they look at just the profit from the software in and of itself.

July 30th, 2009, 07:57 AM	#40
Jeff Krepner Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Timonium, MD Posts: 142	Excellent point Robert. It is nice knowing that the company that makes our tools is stable and making a profit instead of bleeding money (Sony, Avid). Also, people are dissapointed with certain parts of this release, but FCP is a runaway hit. That puts Apple in a tough spot, you can't totally rework the GUI and workflow in one release because you risk alienating (thus choosing not to upgrade) a big part of your clientele. I want the interface to be more Vegas like (or Speedrazor for those of you out there that remember) but I don't think that will happen anytime soon since it is too different. As far as Blu-ray support, I feel that if Apple doesn't want to build in better support, there are other options out there. I can't say that I have any clients asking for it yet. Blu-ray doesn't mean anything for the broadcast world (as in going out to TV), and even corporate and event work is still mostly standard def DVD. I just got my upgrade in the mail... off to install it!

July 30th, 2009, 08:06 AM	#41
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I offered DVDs in 2001 and I don't think I had a client ask for a DVD until 2003. Seriously--they still wanted VHS! And some film festivals I was involved with didn't want DVD until about 2003, either. I couldn't believe that! But I mostly think it was because there weren't widespread and affordable options to create DVDs that were widely adopted until 2002 or so. I see the same thing happening with BD, though we may see downloads and streaming (like Netflix, VUDU, etc.) before anyone widely accepts BD. However, BD sales are up 91% in the first half of 2009: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10288294-1.html Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 30th, 2009, 01:04 PM	#42
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I used to be an Avid editor for a facilities company. At the time it was the only serious option. I still have Media Composer with the latest version and dongle sitting on my Mac. Do I use it.... No. I now use FCP, why? The Avid GUI is so dated an inflexible, they have only recently enabled dragging and dropping selections of clips within the timeline. Every other NLE has been doing that for years. To get a simple HDSDi single in and out requires expensive Avid only hardware while FCP, Vegas and Premiere can all work with very effective low cost 3rd party cards. Avid seems to be stuck in the past. I was told by someone from Avid that they have a serious issue with the core editing engine within their software. Because of the amount of large corporations and broadcasters with massive install bases of older Avid systems they dare not make major changes to some of their core software components. Doing so would risk loosing essential backwards compatibility. Because of this they have real problems going forwards. On the one hand any new software needs to work with a lot of older legacy Avid products to keep the big networks happy, on the other hand they need to make big changes to keep pace with FCP and all the other NLE producers. In my opinion unless Avid open up their architecture to make it easier to work with 3rd party products they will struggle to survive. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 30th, 2009, 03:20 PM	#43
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	13 or 14 years ago, I had a really great (expensive, $50k) Avid SD NLE sysytem. It was my first experience with any NLE. I found it to be very easy and intuitive to learn and to understand. I am amazed at all of the comments to the contrary. I had another guy working with me and neither of us had any prior experience working with the Avid or any other NLE, for that matter. We just picked it up on the fly and we did a lot of great work with it. We edited stuff that won local, national and international awards with that Avid. I left the business for several years. When I got back into video, I was looking for a new edit system. I wound up going with Premiere 6.5 because of luck, circumstance and a lack of big bucks for anything else. I bought a new retail bundle that was an amazingly cheap closeout ($39) and I later upgraded to CS3. CS3 seems to be a pretty good system and it easily handles my HDV footage but there are many times that I wish I could have my old Avid system back but with full HD capability. It just seemed to be much easier to translate my visions of what I wanted to achieve into working video. Interestingly, the guy who used to work for me is now working in Atlanta. He spent a couple of years shooting news. When he struck out on his own, he bought an Avid HD system because of his positive experience of working with my Avid. But he grew disallusioned with his Avid and he has now sold it and converted to FCP. He seems to be happy with FCP.

July 30th, 2009, 09:50 PM	#44
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Avid is still at the top of the pile, along with FCP. I think they'll both be around for a while. A few years back, I was on an HDV instructional tour with Douglas Spotted Eagle and he made a good point: Avid was a "legacy" product (my words) that saw minor updates, but nothing dramatic. He said he could see Final Cut Pro starting to do that (right again) and become like Avid. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. He also made the point that Vegas was a bit of a radical departure from other NLEs and he was definitely right about that. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog