JVC Micro-4K Prototype

Craig Yanagi · February 24th, 2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnie Schlissel

They will gauge the response from reviewers and potential consumers and then make decisions based on what they project the market to be.

...and we are monitoring posts and threads such as this one to see what the market response/request is...

Glen Vandermolen · February 24th, 2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Yanagi

...and we are monitoring posts and threads such as this one to see what the market response/request is...

In that case, Craig...

I like it! A 4k imager in such a small package is really cool. Heck, a 4K imager in anything is cool!
How about putting it in the body of a HM-750? The lens might be an issue.

John Mitchell · February 25th, 2011, 06:58 AM

Well I own an HM100 along with an HM700 - can't really see the point of a 4K imager in an HM100 body - you'd need the manual iris, focus and proper zoom control offered by the 700 to really take full advantage. The HM100 produces a fantastic image for the size of the camera but can be a real challenge to operate with the iris control down the back of the camera body and only operating in steps - the clumsy zoom controller that has about a 1/4 inch of slack and the focus control that give you no positive feedback. I suppose you could always go auto....

Don't get me wrong fantastic camera and image at the price and I love it but mainly as a second or third camera.

Joe Carney · March 2nd, 2011, 03:56 PM

If JVC can take the popular barrel form factor, make it a little bigger and put in a S35 sensor along with PL mount for under 10K, might have a chance. There is currently no shoulder mount F3 type camera out there.
Based on the videos, it appears any actual camera JVC puts out will be strictly niche type.

On the other hand, if they can take the 4K image and convert to 1080p 12bit 4:4:4 video on camera without requiring an external capture device, well then, that would be something.(And have it in the barrel shape body with PL mount....)

Craig Yanagi · March 5th, 2011, 03:12 PM

The commentary with the background information is enlightening. The 4K camcorder seems to have caught some people's attention. It certainly caught mine.

Here's some questions for the DVInfo participants:

Lensing: Is there a limitation in using only fixed primes and still zooms? Is there a need for quick zoom capability, auto focus and image stabilization?

Body design: Hand-held, compact shoulder or box (modular)?

Craig

Glen Vandermolen · March 5th, 2011, 04:16 PM

Craig,
Is it fair to assume a 4K sensor would be big, around the size of a 35mm frame (roughly)? If so, would it use existing DSLR lenses or cinema primes?
If that were the case, what would be the expense of making a dedicated power zoom lens for a large sensor? Pretty expensive, I would think.
I'd be happy with existing primes and DSLR zooms, assuming they work with 4K.
Form factor wise, a shoulder mount is always preferred.
Auto focus and image stabilization would be nice, but not necessary. Focus assist is very much desired.
A good, broadcast quality (at least 50mbps) codec is a great feature to have.

Craig Yanagi · March 9th, 2011, 10:31 PM

Thanks very much for your commentary, Glen. My apologies for taking this slightly off-topic. We'll be looking at and discussing with the market to see where the trends and opportunities lead.

Gabe Strong · March 9th, 2011, 11:09 PM

I on the other hand would rather have a 'real' video style lens than a still lens or a prime, and
I'd be willing to pay for it (up to a point). Obviously making a lens like this may be very expensive
(I don't know anyone that has done it yet, Sony is supposedly going to release some sort of
video style lens for their F3)......so I can understand if it just can't be done at a reasonable
price point. However, just because something hasn't been done in the past, doesn't
mean someone won't figure out something in the future, a couple years ago, I would
not have thought there would be cameras with sensors the size of the AF100 and F3 at
their price points.....but there they are. So if we are just talking wishes, I'd like to see at least the
option to purchase a video style zoom lens.

Craig Yanagi · March 10th, 2011, 08:01 PM

Very good point, Gabe. The current ENG-type lenses out in the market are designed for three imagers. A removable video style lens for a single imager will need to be built from scratch. If a particular single imager size becomes standardized, then there would be viability in making lenses for it. The size of the imager is a factor, too. Take into consideration the size of the lenses for 2/3" imagers.

Gabe Strong · March 11th, 2011, 11:18 AM

Craig,

Yup you are 100% correct. I understand the market forces at work here, that's why I would
understand if it is something that can't be done right away. But I would suggest, as a business
strategy, that Sony is doing it the right way with the F3. They are allowing it to use primes, and still
lenses and so forth, BUT they are building in a power tap and a zoom rocker, so that when they
build their purpose built video zooms in the future, that the OPTION is there for those people
that want it. Not forcing those that don't want it to buy the lens, but including it as an option for
those that do want it, I think that way you are able to market your camera to the maximum
number of buyers. As can be seen on this site and others like it, we come from all types of
backgrounds....stills, video, film, and so on. This approach seems to make better sense to me
than the approach Panasonic took with the AF100 when they basically said:
'It's not intended to be a camera for events guys, it's a cinema camera'.

The thing is, it COULD have easily been a camera that events guys wanted as well!
Some of us shoot all kinds of things and would like a video style lens for some things, and
hey, if we want we can always change to a really 'bright' still lens for certain shots, that's kind
of the beauty of a camera with a removable lens, it can be many things!

Glen Vandermolen · September 15th, 2011, 09:34 AM

Zombie-fying a dead thread...

It looks like JVC may actually put this thing on the market next year. Incredible. It requires 4 SD cards, one for each "1K," I guess. Editing hasn't been worked out, but JVC is talking to NLE companies. Then there's the issue of actually viewing what you shoot. Are there any 4K monitors out there? Still, an affordable (let's hope) 4K video camera in that tiny HM150 body is insane!

February 25th, 2011, 06:58 AM	#18
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype Well I own an HM100 along with an HM700 - can't really see the point of a 4K imager in an HM100 body - you'd need the manual iris, focus and proper zoom control offered by the 700 to really take full advantage. The HM100 produces a fantastic image for the size of the camera but can be a real challenge to operate with the iris control down the back of the camera body and only operating in steps - the clumsy zoom controller that has about a 1/4 inch of slack and the focus control that give you no positive feedback. I suppose you could always go auto.... Don't get me wrong fantastic camera and image at the price and I love it but mainly as a second or third camera.

March 2nd, 2011, 03:56 PM	#19
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype If JVC can take the popular barrel form factor, make it a little bigger and put in a S35 sensor along with PL mount for under 10K, might have a chance. There is currently no shoulder mount F3 type camera out there. Based on the videos, it appears any actual camera JVC puts out will be strictly niche type. On the other hand, if they can take the 4K image and convert to 1080p 12bit 4:4:4 video on camera without requiring an external capture device, well then, that would be something.(And have it in the barrel shape body with PL mount....) __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

March 5th, 2011, 03:12 PM	#20
Craig Yanagi JVC America Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wayne, New Jersey Posts: 198	4K camera design The commentary with the background information is enlightening. The 4K camcorder seems to have caught some people's attention. It certainly caught mine. Here's some questions for the DVInfo participants: Lensing: Is there a limitation in using only fixed primes and still zooms? Is there a need for quick zoom capability, auto focus and image stabilization? Body design: Hand-held, compact shoulder or box (modular)? Craig __________________ Craig Yanagi - National Marketing Manager JVC Professional Video Division, JVCKENWOOD USA Corp.

March 5th, 2011, 04:16 PM	#21
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype Craig, Is it fair to assume a 4K sensor would be big, around the size of a 35mm frame (roughly)? If so, would it use existing DSLR lenses or cinema primes? If that were the case, what would be the expense of making a dedicated power zoom lens for a large sensor? Pretty expensive, I would think. I'd be happy with existing primes and DSLR zooms, assuming they work with 4K. Form factor wise, a shoulder mount is always preferred. Auto focus and image stabilization would be nice, but not necessary. Focus assist is very much desired. A good, broadcast quality (at least 50mbps) codec is a great feature to have.

March 9th, 2011, 10:31 PM	#22
Craig Yanagi JVC America Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wayne, New Jersey Posts: 198	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype Thanks very much for your commentary, Glen. My apologies for taking this slightly off-topic. We'll be looking at and discussing with the market to see where the trends and opportunities lead. __________________ Craig Yanagi - National Marketing Manager JVC Professional Video Division, JVCKENWOOD USA Corp.

March 9th, 2011, 11:09 PM	#23
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype I on the other hand would rather have a 'real' video style lens than a still lens or a prime, and I'd be willing to pay for it (up to a point). Obviously making a lens like this may be very expensive (I don't know anyone that has done it yet, Sony is supposedly going to release some sort of video style lens for their F3)......so I can understand if it just can't be done at a reasonable price point. However, just because something hasn't been done in the past, doesn't mean someone won't figure out something in the future, a couple years ago, I would not have thought there would be cameras with sensors the size of the AF100 and F3 at their price points.....but there they are. So if we are just talking wishes, I'd like to see at least the option to purchase a video style zoom lens.

March 10th, 2011, 08:01 PM	#24
Craig Yanagi JVC America Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wayne, New Jersey Posts: 198	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype Very good point, Gabe. The current ENG-type lenses out in the market are designed for three imagers. A removable video style lens for a single imager will need to be built from scratch. If a particular single imager size becomes standardized, then there would be viability in making lenses for it. The size of the imager is a factor, too. Take into consideration the size of the lenses for 2/3" imagers. __________________ Craig Yanagi - National Marketing Manager JVC Professional Video Division, JVCKENWOOD USA Corp.

March 11th, 2011, 11:18 AM	#25
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype Craig, Yup you are 100% correct. I understand the market forces at work here, that's why I would understand if it is something that can't be done right away. But I would suggest, as a business strategy, that Sony is doing it the right way with the F3. They are allowing it to use primes, and still lenses and so forth, BUT they are building in a power tap and a zoom rocker, so that when they build their purpose built video zooms in the future, that the OPTION is there for those people that want it. Not forcing those that don't want it to buy the lens, but including it as an option for those that do want it, I think that way you are able to market your camera to the maximum number of buyers. As can be seen on this site and others like it, we come from all types of backgrounds....stills, video, film, and so on. This approach seems to make better sense to me than the approach Panasonic took with the AF100 when they basically said: 'It's not intended to be a camera for events guys, it's a cinema camera'. The thing is, it COULD have easily been a camera that events guys wanted as well! Some of us shoot all kinds of things and would like a video style lens for some things, and hey, if we want we can always change to a really 'bright' still lens for certain shots, that's kind of the beauty of a camera with a removable lens, it can be many things!

September 15th, 2011, 09:34 AM	#26
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Re: JVC Micro-4K Prototype Zombie-fying a dead thread... It looks like JVC may actually put this thing on the market next year. Incredible. It requires 4 SD cards, one for each "1K," I guess. Editing hasn't been worked out, but JVC is talking to NLE companies. Then there's the issue of actually viewing what you shoot. Are there any 4K monitors out there? Still, an affordable (let's hope) 4K video camera in that tiny HM150 body is insane!