Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Sareesh, you're teetering on the edge of trolling, here. If you don't like the look of FF, prefer the look of your GH2, and think that the C300 "barely makes the grade", then what are you really contributing here? Each camera is vastly different than the next, and tailored to vastly different market segments. Until I've filmed something similar with each of them, I'll withhold judgement.

As video shooters, we tend to forget that, other than the C300, the entire EOS line are first and foremost stills cameras with a tacked-on video capability. And (I'm guessing) 95% of their market buys these cameras for taking stills... with the video as a bonus. Shooting video with a stills camera will always introduce compromises. I, for one, and willing to make them to get a filmic image. I know many pros that are not.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

The GH2 is an ergonomic nightmare. In my hands it feels like a tiny little plastic toy.
I shoot events like weddings & use ISO3200 with the 5DII all the time. The image is clean & noise free when correctly exposed.
The GH2 has higher resolution & a cleaner image but it just doesn't have the beautiful lush look of the 5D's full frame sensor coupled with lovely 'L' lenses

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I just had the latest Canon Professional Network newsletter by email saying that they will be showing the 5DIII at the NEC & that CPS members can book in to attend a special technical overview.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I agree, Brian. We have a no bashing policy here and Sareesh is skating very close to the limit. It seems this always happens when new gear is announced. Sigh.

-gb-

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I have my on order. I'll be shooting 70% video and 30% photos. Maybe a few time lapse shots here and there. What memory cards would you guys recommend me getting?

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Don't hold your breath there Ted - I think that might be a mistake. they also have the 16-35mm as an IS lens too showing there!

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Apologize for my nomenclature. I also was confusing my 5D II frame rates with my 2ti frame rates. I had forgotten that only the T2i had 720p60.

Point is that with the T2i, T3i, and 7D, some users what 1080p60, primarily to improve slow motion effects.

I have that capability on my lowly VG20, (unless Sony is not providing true 1080p60 ????) and wonder why Canon hasn't seen fit to increase that capability.

That is only point I was making.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Frankly I'd like to see frame rates higher than 60p for slow motion, but I seriously doubt Canon will do that in a regular EOS camera. Cinema EOS, well maybe there's some hope... but I wouldn't hold my breath just yet.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

It HAS to be more than 5% of 5D Mark II owners that bought the camera for video. I have to think it was at least 25% of 5D Mark II sales were because of video, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was all the way up to 50% of the sales. (I bought my 7D mostly because of video.)

Canon has to have the numbers on this & I'd love to see the data. I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon, Sony, Panasonic & others have done massive market research into the EOS HD cameras too.

The 5D Mark III is an improvement on video, but I see the biggest thing missing is the clean HDMI.

If Canon has prevented a clean HDMI because they don't want to hurt XF300 or C300 sales, then I think Canon has already lost. These cameras do not compete with each other, they compliment each other.

Panasonic's AC130, AC160 & HPX250 compliment each other, instead of compete with each other. Because of this, we get better cameras.

Since there is clean HDMI (or better HD-SDI) being offered from Panasonic, Sony & Nikon, I think Canon might lose the title of king of the hill of HDSLRs, as it seems like to me these other companies are paying attention to what is happening...

It isn't a revolution, it is an evolution.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Agreed on the higher FPS point - Offering 720/120p would be phenomenal, but we will probably have to wait for the next C300 revision. Hopefully by then Ill be able to afford the current C300 haha

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Zach, if the numbers were anywhere near what you suggest, Canon (or someone else) would have made a dedicated video body with a better ergonomics and a large 2k sensor that shoots ideal video instead of the down-sampled stuff we have to live with. They'd be crazy NOT to if they could sell hundreds of thousands of units. But the market is simply not there.

I live in a tourist town where all summer people drive up here and lug around their prosumer Canons and Nikons, with big old 70-200/2.8s (or 400mm beasts) to capture the wildlife and have never once seen anybody shooting video with theirs. Not once. And these are people from all over the world. And I get stopped all of the time with these same people asking about my LCDVF... "what is THAT thing for??!"

I can assure you, purchasing a DSLR primarily for video capture is a fringe activity compared to the millions of units sold for primarily shooting stills.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Regarding 1080p60, of course everybody wants it. Keep in mind that such a feature would go beyond a firmware update. It would require enough speed from the sensor, DSP, and storage system. It might also affect heat and battery life.

I'm really hoping that we will see some good exposure and focus aids like zebras and an inset magnified view. While 1080p60 takes real hardware ($$$), Magic Lantern has shown that such UI features can be done in firmware and are not costly.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Brian, if that is the case, why has Canon acknowledge that its video/film making features were ground breaking in the 5D II and that this tradition is carried forward and improved. Its because they know the 5D created a whole new class of DSLR user, and users that tend to buy on the heavy end with accessories too !.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Its very difficult to estimate the number of people who bought Canon for video, because most of them are using it for stills also.
Myself for example, bought it for both, but I would have get a Nikon if it didn't had the video feature, since I am a Nikon user since the 80s. As a result I also bought 2 7Ds, 3 Canon lenses, plus adapters for my Nikon lenses.
But if you see me on vacation, I mostly shoot photos with my 7D, because I don't find the idea of leisure videotaping appealing.
Canon hampered 5Diii not only by not having clean HDMI, but also by not incorporating the Hi bitrate of 1Dx. Chris Hurd had suggested, when 1Dx was out, that this will not be the best Canon DSLR option for video and we should wait for the next 5D model. Evidently Canon proved him wrong. Apparently Canon thought, that photo journalists who shoot video must enjoy better video than studio users. But at $6K 1Dx is very expensive as an alternative to a dedicated videocamera, especially with the option of FS100 and the newly launched lens adapters.
Usually market leaders tend to overcharge for their products and Canon did exactly that with all her new outings. But the way the market is saturated, that could be a risky path.
What would have been an instant order of the new model on my behalf, now is a wait and see decision.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

So what happened to the "EOS C" that Canon showed at the C300 unveiling -- did that end up being the 1DX or is it yet something to come..?

http://www.dvinfo.net/news/new-canon...velopment.html

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I think Canon was surprised as anyone else about the gravitation of the film community to the 5D2. And if it helps sell a few thousand more bodies, why not? I'd still argue that we're a low fraction of typical users. And that video capabilities were originally put on DSLRs to facilitate photojournalists grabbing some add'l video along with their stills.

I've been using my 7D professionally for over two years, for corporate and broadcast work, and know of few other pros in my region that have adopted the form factor for day-to-day work the way that I have. I also teach an intro to DSLR video class at a regional learning co-op and most of my students have video-capable DSLRs of various makes and models, but they were all purchased for stills.

Other people's circles may well be different, but I feel like I've garnered plenty of data in my particular region over the past two years. I've seen maybe 700-800 prosumer bodies being used for stills in the mountains, and around the cities here in Colorado, and at kids' sporting events, and can count only two times I've seen someone shooting video with their DSLR. If it's a revolution, I'm sure not seeing it here.

If you have other data and observations, please share them.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

You are right, I shouldn't be so negative. Thanks for reminding me.

I agree with you on the rest.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

It does in my hands too, which is why I didn't buy it myself.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Canon put video in as an after thought after they figured out how to do live view in a DSLR. They were totally surprised by the fact that video people went crazy over it, when it was supposed to be just a "novelty" feature for still photojournalists.

I'm sure they've have been pleased with the profits they've generated. But I just don't see them responding as well as Sony, Panasonic & Nikon have responded in giving people the features they want (*cough... clean HDMI *cough *cough)

Just look at DVInfo, there is more interest when a new DSLR gets announced than when a video new camera gets announced. This thread has gotten more traffic in 24 hours than JVC's 4K camera has in a month.

Even more, Televisual put the 5Dii on their top ten most rented cameras in 2010 & 2011.
Televisual | HOMEPAGE
Televisual | HOMEPAGE

Tourists & soccer parents aren't the people I consider video professionals that are buying still cameras for professional usage. Video professionals are selling their HVX200s & their EX1s to purchase a DSLR rig. That says something big.

I bought my 7D because it does stills & video, but the deciding factor on why I got the 7D & not another DSLR was the video. I think there is a large percentage of customers Canon won in the last couple years that shared my decision rational.

I agree with you that I would much rather have hard data of the 5Dii than just my observations. Second to that data, I'd love to see some analysis of sales of the D800 vs 5Diii, and how much a clean HDMI signal influenced those sales.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

No, Zach, but tourists and soccer parents make up the 95% that I'm talking about (gross sales) for prosumer cameras. Not to mention photographers themselves, pro and semi-pros, and wannabes. And, as I intimated, of a dozen or so of my peers in video production, I don't know a single one other than myself that use a DSLR on a regular basis. If you know some that gave up their EX1 & EX3s for DSLRs, I don't. One I know uses a RED, but she's a filmmaker. The others stick by their tape and tapeless pro HD cams, since they want timecode, sync XLR sound, zebras, long-form, form-factor, pro codecs, etc. Kids in college that want to make a film would surely gravitate toward DSLRs for their filmic qualities, but as for most pros that make $ with their gear... I'm in a tiny minority lugging around my 7D and Tascam, rigs, and do-dads.

Until shown otherwise, I just don't think the numbers are there. Naturally sites like this are going to have a preponderance of DSLR video shooters. But I'd still say we're in a VAST minority to those that buy the bodies to shoot stills.

But at the ratios you estimate, someone would have built a large sensor video camera for us (that does NOT cost $16k). But they haven't. So I think we're a terribly small percentage. And I'll stand by that until shown otherwise.

FWIW, clean-HDMI out isn't terribly important to me. The Canon codec is good enough to make me $ with my DSLR every day and turn around an edit in hours. I just want to kill the moire' and step-up to FF goodness. Everyone has different needs and desires in their gear.

When the D800 and 5D3 come out, I'll do a day rental on them and run them through their paces to decide which one to buy. It's a VERY good time to be a professional (or hobbyist) in this field.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I think this is a faulty supposition. They know only too well, I suspect, that you are likely to do just as well, perhaps better, in the long term by apportioning out progress than by jumping to the greatest camera theoretically possible. We hear this every time something new comes out. In this or the C300 topics it's always "Why aren't they releasing some all conquering thing for cheap?" from someone. I suspect it's not as easy as we often think, for reasons practical and economic. But I don't know exactly why.

Besides, when you're already winning there's no real call to go out and crush the opposition in one fell swoop. That's just the sort of thing that sinks companies when they take a small misstep doing that. It's fine for small up-start start-ups and so on to be vastly innovative at every turn. It's probably the only way they'd get a look in. The others, not so much. We kid ourselves that redirecting an entire R&D and production line to making things we want is a straightforward affair in a massive multinational.

As to the video question, we've forgotten the impact of these things already and take them completely for granted only a few years later. When I got out of school everyone was still hoping they might pool their resources or save like mad to that first ten grand video camera, which was probably only HDV. If you'd said to anyone why isn't there a true 1080 camera for under five grand that can use photo lenses they would have laughed in your face.

The last shoot I was on there were 3 5Ds on set, only one was actually used for photography. If you'd got everyone to bring their canons along there would have been ten or eleven of them; various 5ds, 7d, 60d et al. About 3 used for photography on a regular basis. This was just a little ten minute thing with no money.

I have no numbers, only impressions. But I know that Canon DSLRs are so ubiquitous in the video circles I walk that they are now a little embarrassing. The 5D II was always the one to have of the line. Every school now has a few; any highchool and university with a media department. They are probably the first 'video camera' a lot of people touch these days, outside of their phones.

Pros might sniff at the video quality and the practicality, but they were leagues ahead of just about anything that would have been doing the same job at the bargain basement level only a year before (and frankly they are only deficient in areas most people really don't care about, especially when you factor in the cost of anything significantly better). Every film student bought one. You need only glance around and the snobbish mockery along the lines of "Got a 5D/7D and thinks he's cinematographer!" that the internet is loaded with to get an idea.

And for all that there's still loads of weddings and so on shot with them. 4gig clip limit? Get two! You're still in front. I know several wedding/corporate/commercial start ups built around them (people might say they're tasteless and doomed, but that's not really the point is it). I handy-cammed a christmas lights show last year and there were a couple of dual Canon shooters alongside the guys with the big broadcast camera.

So, as I said, I have no numbers, but I do think that under estimating how many people are into these things for the video would be a mistake. So why aren't they being served with more specific features? Well, I don't know. On one level I think you could say they don't need to. People are still buying 5DIIs for the video (and to some extent the big sensor rep). If you're a dedicated industry watcher you could think its old news with nothing exciting to offer, but I think the trickling of this quality of video to every corner it can fit isn't done yet. Such things move more slowly than the daily barrage of whiz bang press releases and internet buzz would suggest. They are still what a generation of would be film(video)makers wanted and couldn't get: manual control at a low price, and Canon are the biggest name in the game.

Something yet to come, separate from the EOS 1DX.

New Canon Digital SLR Camera Under Development at DVInfo.net

Sorry, I don't think it has that feature.

Gapless sensor, 17x faster processing, no more line skipping, no more 4GB
clip limit, reduced moire, a headphone jack, these aren't pleasant surprises?

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

That "something yet to come" is still intriguing indeed. I'd love to have that many pixels to work with (re-framing and movement) in a 1080 frame. Considering the pentaprism and form-factor, it will also no doubt shoot stills, too. I'm not sure why Canon is going with an APS-H sensor on it, if they're trying to sell a bunch to filmmakers. There's not a real analog for that sensor size comparing it to motion picture film sizes and focal lengths like there is with FF=Vista Vision and APS-C = S35. Strange. Maybe a variant of the sensor in the C300 will morph into their 4K cam for cinema.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Brian, that's only true because you have yet to invite me over! :-)

That said, I'm still not convinced I need to upgrade from my 5D mk II.

Julian

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

You come on up anytime, Julian. We'll bring the revolution to the unwashed masses!

Timecode, clip length, a yet-to-be A-B'd reduction in moire' and artifacting, and an HD output during recording for pulling focus with a field monitor either makes it worth $1k for you or it doesn't. It's an easier choice for me to supplement my crop body w/ a FF one. I just have to decide if it's gonna be the D800 or the Mkiii

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Anyone knows if the mkIII got the option of changing the shutter to start/stop video, like the 1Dx?
Would be nice to use a remote to start/stop...

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

No more line skipping has been confirmed?

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

The most pleasant surprise is that no one has complained it isn't the same price as a T3i!

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Oh Dylan, Dylan -- here's a complaint for you; initially I was dead set on getting the 1DX but wanted to see what the 5D3 had to offer... (which, to me, again was a letdown similar to the C300) -- but then, today, Mr. Hurd rekindled my quest, telling us that the EOS-C is in fact still in the pipe. So I've returned to 'the waiting game' mode.

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Regarding the 4K DSLR, I'm thinking that I would only wait for it if I really wanted 4K. Odds are that it will deliver great looking 4K, but I would guess that it won't do 4K 60p. It will probably be 8-bits. It will probably be 4:2:0.

That's the way this stuff is usually rolled out... incrementally.

Now, Canon might surprise me, but for now, I would expect 4K as the only big, new feature.

And, yes, that will be great for anybody shooting video that won't need extreme processing that has a target of the big screen or 4K TVs. Also, given 4K resolution input with a 1080p target, you can get GREAT 1080p with the ability to crop at will.

On the luma side, you get four 4K pixels for each 1080p pixel. That's like having 10-bit resolution and two extra stops of noise reduction when you downsample to 1080p. On the chroma side, 4:2:0 @ 4K delivers 4:4:4 1080p. S'not bad...

Also, we know that we'd be getting all the pixels. That means proper anti-aliasing for sure.

So 4K with no other upgrades could still be pretty sweet. And maybe it will do 1080p60...

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

And proBably 4K raw
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...plication.html

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

If the c300 is circa 15-16k, doesn't it stand to reason the cinema 4k hdslr (if not vaporware) would roll out around 20+k? In any case way out of my league. Would have like to seen a camera with 1080 48/60p at a little over 1920 for post stabilization - because I'm too lazy to use a steadycam most of the time! WITH clean hdmi out...

Still, JVC has falconbridge, maybe they can spur some competition, or sony or panny will bring something to the table soon..tired of this crippling thing....folks have been asking for hdmi recorders since 2006/hdv...now they're here, no clean hdmi (apart from d800/d4, with possible line-skipping moire etc.)...I remember this especially as an early adobter of the hv20...decent codec was the thing...

Canon essentially don't want their dslr's to be potentially used for broadcast - even small independent productions - it's 'buy a c300' (or fs100 more like) or their smaller-chipped videocams...

edit: yes aware of 'house', act of valor, danfung dennis etc..

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

4K especially if it were RAW would give us events shooters the capability of just taking stills off the timeline so delivering photographic work & doing two jobs at once. We would offer combined video & photographic packages & be shooting 25 stills per second. I was all fired up with the original promise of Scarlet for just this reason but a 4K camera from Canon would be a far preferable option.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Would rather be wise and wait till others have discovered any issues first.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I shall now look forward to decreasing prices for a Mark II. :)

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Why should they?

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Im jumping in... If it really has issues, they'll creep up well within BH's return window! I do a lot of still photography too and want a full frame to go with my 7D.
Plus, somebody's gotta test the thing! I'll be performing the overheating tests here in Hell...I mean Phoenix...once summer arrives!

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Nah. Where's the fun in that?

That was a joke based on the endless threads we had about people being angry with the C300 prices. Ya had to be here I guess.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

Go forth early adopters, so pov-o scum like me can shop wisely.
If I have seen greater savings than those who have come before, it is only by standing on the shoulders of giant pixel peeping blog posts!
Huzzah to you.

Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III
 

I'm not sure I follow that. I'm assuming you mean that because it's 4k, all the photosites on the chip will be read every frame? If the recording is RAW, that could start to be feasible, because it moves the processing bottleneck from camera to computer, so yes, that's possible.

But it would also follow that the chip would be approximately 8 megapixel, as with the C300. Yes, it will work well for video, but will an 8 megapixel DSLR sell......?

Yet again it's a case of trying to engineer a good stills and video product in the same device seemingly leading to conflict. Optimise the video performance and expect still performance to suffer, and vice versa.