Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

CVP's Dave just informed me that the XA25 has arrived today on time. They'll start shipping the pre-ordered camcorders now. Good news.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Congrats Gabor!

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Cool. Hopefully you can share some thoughts with us after some shooting time.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Sure I will Tim...

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Amazon is now reporting the XA-20 will be released on June 30.

Amazon.com: Canon XA20 Professional Camcorder: Camera & Photo

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

I know this is Canon we are talking here so this is probably a stupid question... But does anyone think there is a chance we could get user selectable 50p -> 60p for people that would like the extra FPS but live in PAL regions?

I really wish they'd stop making us pay more for "region locking" when all that should happen is set to defaults out of the box to region of intended sale! :) And while i'm ranting.. teh same damn model number! lol

PS. I'm directing my question to the HF G30 but if the bigger brothers have these options please feel free to share info on those.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Finally! Our Canon XA25 has just arrived. First package unwrapped, will post the first results in a day or so.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Wonderful! Looking forward to the results.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Thanks Gabor. Looking forward to finding out how this camera performs in lower light conditions with regards to noise & detail. Not midnight but situations where the XF300 might be towards an open iris.

Always fun to check out a new camera.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

I'd prefer to compare it with the JVC HM-150, the XF300 is a whole other class camera. Although mine is a XA25, the XA20 and JVC HM-150 are direct competitors in my opinion. About the same price, same formfactor and both do 35 Mbps MOV and MP4. The advantages of the HM150 are the built-in ND filter, included microphone, 3 chips vs. 1 and ccd's vs. cmos (no rolling shutter). Theoretically the 3 chips should be able to produce a better picture as they can split the RGB colours but the HM150 is horrible on that. Watch this video and see what it does with reflective colours:


The advantages of the XA20 over he HM150 are numerous; the 20x lens, Full HD 50p and built-in WiFi.The HM150 is just useless in lowlight. Wondering what the XA25 does there, we'll see.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

There we go. First lowlight test with the brandnew Canon XA25 in almost-full darkness. Recorded on 1920x1080 50p 35 Mbps. Because the camera was on auto-aperture the image is a lot brighter than the actual situation. A lot of grain but the camera at least is usable in darkness, the JVC GY-HM150 was useless.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Second test with the brandnew Canon XA25, now in full darkness. Recorded on 1920x1080 50p 35 Mbps. The camera was on manual aperture now and the image brightness represents the actual situation. Still a lot of grain but the camera at least is usable in darkness, the JVC GY-HM150 was useless.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

could you please post a test at night in your living room lit only by 2 60 watt light bulbs? A Coke can placed in the foreground would be nice to determine color accuracy.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Kris, the test would be useless because we would not know the distance of the light from the coke cans, etc. and then we would need to set up the exact same conditions in our own place with another camera and compare the footage. Even then it would not be accurate, given compression on the web.

The best way to test a camera is by shooting it side by side with a control camera and using the same settings. Even then it would only yield results for that camera.

I will set up my XA-10 next to my XA-20 after it arrives and conduct such a test.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

"The best way to test a camera is by shooting it side by side with a control camera and using the same settings. Even then it would only yield results for that camera."
I agree. But that was the best that I could come up with at 4:30 AM :-)

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Yes, we got 'um in stock now......XA25's

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Gabor, have you used gain here or just fully opened aperture?

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

See what the Canon XA25 does in lowlight at 0, 6, 12, 15, 18 and the maximum 24 dB gain settings. All on auto-aperture (I assume wide open) as you can manually set either the gain or aperture, not both.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

XA-20 shipped today, will arrive Wednesday. I'll run a test next to the XA-10 and see what happens.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Thanks for your posts Gabor. How do you like the camera so far?

I must say, I am a bit disappointed after reading the manual for the XA20/25. There are not many image controls and as it looks to me, the SDI port is output only. I did not see a way to import timecode for sync to other cameras. Maybe I missed it though.

The lack of image adjustments is a shame. I guess I am expecting too much from a $2,500 camera.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

I'm excited! Mine is on its way. Coming via the post mind you, so will likely get to me end of next week or perhaps the week after:( Anyway, just wanted to ask anyone with one of these cams in their hands, how the fast & slow motion works. Specifically, are you able to do timelapse with the camera? I really like the ability of doing timelapse shots with my EX3 so if this is also able to do the same I will be very pleased. Unfortunately it doesn't specify the available settings in this mode in the manual I downloaded.
Regards,
Bryce

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Shot my first little newsvid today with the XA25.

Vrouw naar ziekenhuis na keukenbrand Tobias Asserstraat [video] - Eindhoven - dichtbij.nl - Eindhoven

20x zoomlens is a big plus. Used to the PMW-350 and EX1R myself I think the image is pretty soft. Though I like the image more than our much more expensive NX5E. So, no bad job at all Canon.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Nice footage.

A camera shop that's not too far from where I live just called me today to say they just got a shipment of some XA20 cameras. I'm going to check one out tomorrow and will probably buy it. I was considering getting a Panasonic AC90 instead. Granted, the AC90 has lots of good things going for it, including an extensive array of manual controls and settings that other cameras in its price range simply don't have. However, I've always felt that Canon cameras produce a richer, more robust image. As good as the AC90 is, I think its overall image quality is let down a bit by its tiny 1/4.7" sensor chips.

About eight months ago I had a Canon XA10 and liked it, but stupidly sold it and bought a Sony NEX-6, thinking it could be an all-in-one SLR, travel camera and camcorder. As it turned out, the NEX-6 was a so-so DSLR, a great travel-size camera and it produced reasonably good-looking video, even if it was prone to some moiré and aliasing, and just like other large-sensor stills-cum-video cameras, susceptible to overheating.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

When I got my NX5U I too thought I had made a big mistake. It seemed to have an image that was not as good as my XR500 Handcam. However, turning off telemacro and anti flicker filters made the image much better and setting up a Picture Profile that suited me has now made the camera just great. The autofocus is almost useless though in dark situations and I find that shooting in the theatre it has to be in full manual most of the time with great care over setting focus. Iris has to be wider than f4 or the image gets soft. I do not use outdoors really, the few times outdoors it has spent most of the time with ND filters on to keep the iris in the sweet spot. If you shoot in auto it warns about ND's too late and not enough.

Ron Evans

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Pretty happy... got my HF G30 Tuesday! haven't been able to use it during daylight but just having a little play now. Very happy camper so far! Great update to my HV20 (thought i'd never have a worthy Canon update at teh rate they were going!).

Some nice features to learn about and use. Surprisingly the touch screen is quite good to use. I'm in PAL land so unfortunately i'm gypped 10fps and i can't see any hardcore options to change it to 60fps for when i see fit! But oh well. Fun times though. :)

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Just a couple of small things, but they are bugging me, the lens hood only stays on with a very small twist of the wrist and has pinged off twice already in the last 5 mins when closing the lens cap lever.

More unforgivable is that the BP-819 and BP-827 battery packs from the XA10 DO NOT work on the XA20, comes up with the message "Battery pack not compatible, turning off the camcorder"

Now bad as the expense of buying extra batteries is, if you are doing a multi shot with the XA-10 the new BP-820 is identical looking and fitting to the BP819, so good luck getting the right battery on the right camcorder if you are in a hurry.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Hi
Canon Europe has issued a service notice on this:
XA20

The message is that the older packs does not work.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

The battery change was noted when they were announced.

Ron Evans

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Unless I missed something, the white balance cannot be changed on the XA-20 whilst recording. This is a big disappointment. While certainly a budget camcorder, this camcorder is classified by Canon as a pro model.


Lack of ability to choose a white balance preset while recording is inexcusable, IMO. If I'm missing how this is done, someone please clue me in.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

I too have just discovered the camera's inability to change white balance whilst recording. This is inexcusable for a camera at this price point and something that Canon must surely offer a reason for. Does anyone know of a way round this problem?

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Pardon my ignorance, as I always want to learn. Why is a feature to change white balance while recording so important? What are you recording that requires it. I have never had the desire to change it while recording. The only thing I have recorded with that drastic changes in lighting are stage shows. However, white balancing for each scene distorts the overall look the lighting designer worked so hard to achieve.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

It is stage shows that I need it for and I agree that it is normally best to leave it on Auto, however, sometimes it needs tweeking, particularly when filming at outdoor theatres. Never come across a camera that couldn't do it - that's all.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

You need it for any event where you change angles or pan to a spot where the lighting requires a different white balance setting.

This scenario is very common in wedding work. For example, during the processional my main camera might be pointing at the door of the church, then after the processional I am aimed at the altar. Totally different lighting.

Or when you go from indoor to outdoors and you cannot/do not want to stop recording for continuity purposes. For example, if you are following someone who leaves or enters a building, such as a bride and groom leaving a church.

Auto white balance on the XA-10 was the worst I had ever seen, it is never usable for me. Don't know yet about the XA-20.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Alright. I do understand why you might need to change the settings when changing angles, but I normally would stop recording while I change positions. It could make lining things up in the NLE much easier if I didn't. However, you got me on leaving a church following the couple. I have just used auto WB for that shot. If the camera's auto WB couldn't handle it, changing while recording could be a nice feature. I don't trust myself to handle that while following the couple through the crowd and out the door, though. I might break something.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Yours and my idea of acceptable color and white balance might be different. Also, we NEVER turn off during a wedding for any reason if it can be avoided. The event does not stop and wait while I adjust my white balance or move my cameras. I need continuous audio and video as well. Sadly, I do end up turning off the camera at times to set my white balance, and I hate doing it.

Auto white balance sucks on most of these cameras. If it's acceptable to you, great. To me the XA10 had the worst auto white balance I'd ever seen. I suspect the XA20 is better, but even so, I doubt that I will rely on it, especially trying to match cameras.

If you do a lot of weddings you know for many catholic churches, or any church for that matter, you will have a mixture of sun and incandescent lighting and you cannot possibly trust auto white balance, it cannot know what to do.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Note for dummies. just wanted to try:

Auto ramt vluchtheuvel Oirschotsedijk [foto's + video] - Eindhoven - dichtbij.nl - Eindhoven

This video is how the XA25 performs in full-auto mode. Not bad at all, surely when you consider filming under a viaduct can give hard time in defining the aperture.Biggest dissapointment for me so far is the zoomrocker on the XA25. It's very sturdy and there is almost no way to get a soft and nice zoom.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Bryon, I was filming an outdoor event for NASCAR two weeks ago and we followed a driver indoors where my images promptly turned yellow because I could not switch to an indoor WB setting. The footage is nearly impossible to grade in post. I can remove the yellow cast, but then everything else looks just very bad color wise. Problem is I was trying to use a prosumer camera for a professional application, which is my fault. So while the camera's features are what they are, I'm still peeved and disappointed. I just hate that they label this a pro camera and then cripple this feature.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

My Sony NX30U will change while recording. Couple of button pushes though not like moving a switch on the NX5U. One of the MY buttons on the LCD can be set as white balance which will then open the white balance setting menu and any of the choices can be made while recording. So two button pushes instead of moving a switch but it works fine. I think you can do the same by setting one of the buttons on the XA20.

Ron Evans

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Ron, the XA-20 will let WB menu to be activated with a programmable button, which gave me hope when I begann playing with the camera, but the feature will not appear when recording. When going through the regular menu, the WB item on the menu is greyed out when recording. Stinks.

Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders
 

Jeff,
Can you assign two of the assignable buttons to pre-set WB settings & simply push the buttons to go between the two? Of course even if this is possible, it may be too sudden a change to be useable.
The other option if it exists is setting up a WB transition like on the Sony EX-3 where the shot transition buttons can be used to transition between two WB settings.
Regards,
Bryce

P.S. I'm glad I don't have to deal with this issue in my shooting conditions. I think it would be a bit of a pain trying to do it all on the fly. Sure for a set shot, but in your situation, I can see how it would be tough!