Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I trust it won't be long until someone offers a complete new chassis to mount the internal guts of the 4k BMC into. Ton's of guys offering third party mods and accessories - just watch, it won't be long ; )

Despite the excitement and latest offerings, I have absolutely no regrets with my F55 - it is still the most versatile in my books. I do wonder a little about RED however and how they will react or compete with this.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Well, i put my money where my mouth is - i just pre-ordered the pocket cam.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I ordered mine!

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Likewise...

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Seems there are lots of folks just wetting themselves over this little pocket cam beastie, me included of course. I just can’t help wondering why the big names in the business, Sony Panasonic etc. didn’t already do this. I mean, it’s hardly rocket science, is it?

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Because they have to protect their high-end equipment through market differentiation. It almost seemed like there was a gentleman's pact between them to keep the high end stuff at high end prices, and then cripple everything in stages below it.

RED shook that up with the Red One, and they had to change their strategies somewhat and lower the prices of their high end equipment (and add new features).

It will be interesting to see how they respond to Black Magic.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Just ordered my PCC too. Too tempting to pass up. Looking forward to experimenting with it.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Pocket Cam pre ordered!!!

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Pocket Cam Pre-ordered too!

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Don't need another small camera but just ordered the 4K. And a case of hard drives.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I was really feeling the 4k, but then I noticed no slo motion :(. The pocket looks amazing, if it had still capabilities I'd sell my GH3.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Wow the pocket cam is unreal, just made the GH2 obsolete for video.
But Im trying to save up for a FS100damnit.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I rather wait and see what it can do :) I had the bmc on my mind beginning this year because I loved the images that some users where able to pull out of this camera but got a nex-ea50 instead because I knew it would fit my kind of work (weddings, events,run and gun and shooting alone) much better.
But I must say I"m very tempted by that pocket cam as well, if it comes anywhere near it's bigger 2,5k brother in terms of the imagequality I will buy it as well. But I rather wait a few months to see the first user videos appear, what downsides it might have and until it becomes available at the stores. I don't like buying a camera based on specs alone.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

right on, it only takes a push of a button to buy anything :)
and even though i am positive that image quality will be more than just acceptable and i am planning to get both BM cameras, but i need to see the footage, and even better shoot my own before i do that, was really close to preorder BMCC last year, glad i didin't do that.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

My understanding is that this pocket cam won’t be available until July. I went ahead and pushed the button (no money has changed hands as yet) knowing full well that there is lots of time between now and then to view footage.

I reckon this thing will sell like hot cakes and I thought get in the queue, now. And anyway, it’s only a measly $1000.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

That remains to be seen, I figure they will get swamped with orders and we can only hope they don't run into the same delivery issues as with the BMC.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I agree Noa, July might be optimistic based on past performance. All the more reason to get your order in now, I reckon, so I did.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

From what I understand raw would not be possible with the pocketcam but "only" prores?

Look at 07:07, he doesn't mention it will be in a future update.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

One floor reps contradicted the official announcement, official website, and beta tester John Brawley.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

either way, 4:2:2 and all that dynamic range, seems like it'll smack my gh2 around pretty good.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

No audio metering in the pocket cam. Looks like one will need 2 pockets somewhat defeating the purpose. Not that that will stop me but I have to say, what are they thinking?

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I'm thinking I'm going to use my Pocket Cam as a b-cam or MOS cam.
For $1,000 it has a heck of a lot of features. I just want that 13 stops of dynamic range and the pro res codec.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

That may well be how I use it some of the time but if they're marketing it as a discreet cam for documentary which is how I'd like to use it primarily, it doesn't quite add up. That said, I just pre ordered although there's a part of me that thinks I shouldn't say that. Black Magic needs to think they'll lose orders if they don't address this.

So Black Magic, I'm placing some faith that you'll come through.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

RE pocket cinema camera... I am not understanding exactly where this fits in; IQ great, 4k awesome, discrete form factor, but limited framerates, and again ergonomics and ease of use with accessories.

Like dslr use, would require more hardware, cabling, etc. On the other hand, I can think of a hundred moments I wish I had something like this for random 'life' moments. If I go for one, it will likely be a personal camera.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Nevermind.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I went by the Blackmajic booth today at NAB,I talked to Dan from Blackmajic about the 4K Production Camera

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Good job Brian on the interview (on the fly). However, I don't know how confident I am, that Dan is confident about July delivery. Keeping our fingers crossed that their production team has it right!

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

And if it is delayed a little while what's the big deal? It isn't like any of you are going to run out and buy the other alternative 4k camera for $4000.00.

I understand the frustration but if you already have a good camera then just shoot with it until the BM does come out and don't worry about it. It will get here when it gets here. I would also like to it released on time but it will not bother me if it doesn't and life will go on.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I agree, I'm not concerned about BM making the July delivery date. I pre-ordered the Pocket Cam. If it gets to me in July, that'd be great. If it doesn't get to me until months later, that's OK, too. I'll keep shooting with my current camera.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

I'm very interested in the Pocket Cam as a B-Camera I can just throw in my camera bag if I need it. But what to do about lenses? How does the Super 16mm sensor size translate to 4/3? Is there a crop factor?

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Yeah it will be harder to get super wide. Cannot recall the exact extra crop factor but there is one for sure. You will need to get as wide of lenses as possible. 12-35mm f2.8 should be a killer lens as well as the pancakes the 14mm f2.5 and the beauty 20mm f1.7. The 20mm will be a bit longer than usual but should still be usable for most walk around situations. There is also a very nice 7-14mm Panasonic lens. Not super bright but very wide even on the BMPC. The pancakes should even still allow it to slip in some pockets making it one heck of a functional portable camera. I sometimes shoot exclusively with my 20mm.

SLR Magic 12mm f1.6 will be another killer lens although full manual only. If you are cool with no auto control at all should be about the best option for wide and bright at the same time. Next up would be Nokton 17.5mm f0.95 which of course will be not as wide but much brighter.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Don't quote me on this but I believe the extra crop factor is 1.38 or somewhere around there. That means the 20mm on the BMPC will look like a 28mm on the GH3. Still usable but a bit tight. The 12mm however would give you roughly the look of 17mm on the GH3 which is still rather wide for normal shots or standard walk around shooting. That is wider than what I usually get using my 20mm on the GH2 so not bad at all.

But yeah it is not going to be cheap or easy to get wide shots with this camera. It can be done but it will not be easy. Considering some shooters already have issues with the crop factor of the GH3 this could be a major concern. I think shallow DOF shots will be harder to get as well. So yeah the camera isn't for everybody. One has to decide if the super high quality footage with little compression is worth losing some wide lens options and creative control. Outside of darn awesome color correction and FX work I still see a place for DSLR cameras which may prove to be better to actually shoot with and give the user more options of how they shoot.

With that said telephoto should be awesome with this camera. A 50mm f0.95 SLR Magic or Nokton will give you a look of 70mm on the GH3. Not that you get a lot of extra reach there but it is a bonus if you felt 50mm just wasn't tight enough on a GH3.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

im wondering again about the choice of the EF mount, while it does make much more sense now, im wondering why they didn't opt for the EOS M mount. My guess is just simplicity to not have to retool, but for those with PL glass, the issue still remains, i imagine they might do an MFT mount for this as well, maybe not....

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Most probable they will make a PL mount. On The 4K camera the MFT doesn't make sense.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

My feeling is that there will be several 4k cameras before the end of the year, at considerably less than $4k but that they will be consumer handy cams, reflecting the arrival of ultra HD televisions, and that except for those on the leading edge of home entertainment, the demand will be low for 4k productions outside of large cinema. If so, the demand for the BMPC has to be weighed against the relevant HD alternatives like C100, FS100, GH3 etc. which themselves could be under market pressure to lower prices before the BM has arrived.

For the professional, he should take notice of the growth of cinema class lenses in dslr formats, and why it's not viable forever to rest on Canon L series glass as an example, as there will be pro requirements for lenses that can refocus without breathing.

So once again, as with 1080/p60 and 3D, the demand for 4k content outside of cinema productions will be home theater enthusiasts who could accept as little as being able to plug his handy cam into the tv and a modicum of cinema content. And if that doesn't translate into the expected wow factor, which by some accounts ultra HD already doesn't have with the smaller screen sizes or except by uncomfortably close viewing, the uptake could be very slow. Would we be having this discussion if 3D had taken off the way the mfrs had hoped? And with no optical format, not even agreement on a transmission standard or bitrate, I don't foresee a vast uptake for 4k for at least a year to merit plunging into it, with uncertain targets, unfinished workflows, and not too many asking for it. The future proofing that needs to happen is to have working workflows ready when called upon, experience with raw, 10-12 bit and uncompressed. All that can start now without rushing to buy the first 4k cameras, which will only improve and become more affordable down the line.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

The advantage of 4K goes beyond display. It gives you the ability to stabilize the image in software without worrying about the loss of resolution on blow up. Another key advantage is the ability to either reframe a shot or add motion by moving 4K within a 1080 frame. Imagine for the "small office" shooter that couldn't possible work with two (or more) cameras at a location to be able to cut from close up to medium to wider shot from one camera.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

M43 mount too small for a super 35mm sensor. Physically impossible without odd artifacts. That's why you will never see M43 lenses adapted to Canon or Nikon cameras. You can go the opposite direction because other lenses are designed for larger sensors which is why you get a crop factor. If the lens is already too small you get an image that is a tiny circle of image surrounded by black.

M43 works on the first BMCC because the sensor is actually a bit smaller than a M43 sensor so the M43 lenses easily cover the sensor. Same thing for the BMPC. The sensor is much smaller so the lenses work great albiet much longer than one would hope.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

That's a good niche application (Craig) of 4k cams targeting HD end use. UltraHD flat panels are coming ready or not. I think we have to expect that once production is switched over, there is no going back. But distributors and to a lesser extent content creators, the adoption will lag the tv's themselves, so (I) expect a rehash of the marketing hype that upscaling makes all your current content look better as well. Some people still don't think Blu-ray looks all that much better, while others aren't aware that they are not viewing HD content on their hdtv's. So it's true yes, that I remain a bit pessimistic about the future demand for 4k, tempered by observations that people seem more motivated by mobility and convenience, and less rooted in home theater and large flatscreens that would amply demonstrate the superiority of 4k viewing.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Tom, I'd agree that I can't see any fast move to 4K. In fact HDTVs didn't really accelerate until SD TV disappeared. I really can't see much use of 4K in the home. Looking at current market conditions, first the price of 4K TVs must drop and that's going be be a couple of years. Then they really have to stop production of HDTV as a less expensive alternative.

Then you have to consider that, based on the metrics I've seen, people tend to replace their TVs every five years... and in a down economy I wouldn't be surprised if that's even longer. You'd be getting pretty close to the end of this decade for 4K to dominate.... if ever. There's really no big market motive. Consider this fun fact too, if you scour the post on DVInfo and other forums you still see people screaming about making DVDs! People still haven't left SD behind. As you note, most people have no idea that much of what they watch on their HDTVs is simply SD 16:9 blown up.

But as I note I can see real value in 4K for image manipulation. I did this in the early days of HD as well. There's other things going for the new BMPC4K as well though. Global Shutter is big. It's just not even approachable in this price range on a large sensor camera. The close to S35 sensor is going to help with shallow DOF in some tighter confines. The codec allows for some radical changes when you have less than ideal lighting or simply playing with creating a look.

While I had issues with the BMCC, the BMPC4K addresses them and the 4K is just some added gravy.

Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
 

Lens choice is going to be interesting. I haven't got any MFT lenses yet, and trying to pick some without even having a camera to test on will be interesting. Are there any other cameras out already with a similar size sensor to compare? Lenses which look great on GH2s will give a very different look on the Super 16 sensor.