Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

You're probably right about that.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I assume the Ursa Mini will interest film makers, mainly. Correct me if I'm wrong but the resolution of 35mm film is slightly above 3K, correct? I'm not even sure film has 15 stops of DN, does it?

So basically I'm not sure why anybody would go with the 4.6 sensor instead of the 4k, which has plenty of DR, allows 4:4:4 in ProRes. More rez, is that it? So there will be people what will keep upgrading to get more rez? When you reach a certain limit, where do you stop? How more rez does translate into perceived sensation by a non informed audience, as long as you have 4 K since we've been conditioned to 4 K by film, a little less actually? I'm trying to see what justifies to go from 3000 bucks to 5000 just to have more rez and a slightly bigger sensor. One could buy a nice lens for the difference.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I suspect factors like the black sun may come in with the 4k sensor. You really need to look at the images rather than the numbers, such as how they handle skin tones and how clippy the highlights are. This 4.6k sensor is both global and rolling shutter, the 15 stops seems to refer to the latter, with I gather 13.5 for the global.

Film seems to accepted to be around the 14 stop mark, perhaps a tad more..

The worth of any cost difference may depend may depend on how much you push your camera into the limits when creating your images.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Quality film stock can resolve the equivalent of 6-8K worth of detail.

Film has a practical DR of about 10 stops, but it doesn't hard clip. Instead, it has a soft rolloff. Have an additional 5 stops of DR allows you to emulate that rolloff look when you conform it to Rec.709.

Because it is rolling/global shutter switchable, better quality at higher ISOs/underexposure, and the extra .6K will help for anyone interested in mastering at 4K for things like warp stabilizing.

There is no end.

Because the sensor is supposedly better all-around. If I was getting an Ursa, I wouldn't even consider the 4K sensor because I'm a little underwhelmed by it. Very interested to see the visual difference (especially at 1600 ISO) with the 4.6K.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

It's going to be interesting to see how they differ, because I suspect that quite a few people will end up getting the 4K model instead of the 4.6K model due to the price difference. The main advantage IMO is the dynamic range, since in the Ursa Mini the global shutter is limited to 30fps anyway.

I think BMD has addressed the black sun issue in the v2 4K sensor, btw as well as having addressed the FPN issue, and raised the frame rate. They're also including a feature that will make fixing the black sun issue in post a lot easier in Resolve 12, though it wasn't quite working in time to see it in action at NAB.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Fixing black sun in post sounds like a work around.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Ok, I had no idea how bad that 4 K sensor was!

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Read Marco Solorio's article about the Ursa.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Thanks, I've just finished reading it and from what I've read I feel that there is no real reason to go for the 4.6K instead of the 4K.
That was basically a very good review and no mention at all of any sensor problem. The biggest problems he mentioned was not being able to delete clips in cam. So frankly, for anybody who is not going to have a contract to distribute in a big theater, I think the extra $ 2000 saved going with the 4K are nice. Well, I guess we'll see when a lot of footage from the 4.6K surfaces.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

There are certainly benefits to having the extra dynamic range, but honestly I suspect that most people who are obsessed with the vast dynamic range are just using it to enable sloppier work. It gives you a lot of flexibility to screw up the exposure and still get a usable shot. With the 4K sensor you'll have less dynamic range, so you'll have to be a little more careful with exposure, but it's still going to enable a skilled cinematographer to get great images.

Plus, there's a very good chance that you'll be able to get a 4K model months before BMD catches up on 4.6K preorders. ;)

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Yes, this quest for the perfect machine by so many people who don't have anything to tell, other than filming pretty girls walking on beaches or their cats and dogs is....entertaining for the least.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Larry,

I completely agree with you. Anyone who knows the limits of equipment and uses it accordingly, will obtain excellent results. It's the same on the display side. Everyone is obsessing over black levels or pixel count on flat panels. HDR will be next. Watch for the obsession to spill over into acquisition.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Ya, we're going to see raftloads of imagery by people claiming that it's great cinematography because they used a camera with 15 stops of dynamic range in a few months...

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I also believe that the vast majority of people simply don't need to shoot raw. Let's assume you're going to film a comedy or a drama happening in NYC, a story Woody Allen style or something Spike Lee would do. Do you really believe you need 15 stop of dynamic range captured by a 4.6K sensor? Can't you tell the story of that guy cheating on his wife or that Chinese girl falling in love with that black guy shooting ProRes 4:4:4 with a 4K sensor? ProRes 4 4 4 will allow more than what's necessary to color grade nicely.
Raw could be justified for a few difficult scene, and still, 4 K will be more than enough.
As far as I'm concerned that Hollywood whore, what's his name, uh, Spielberg, could shoot all the dinosaur stories he wants in 8K he won't make me go see it. I would have watched Death and the Maiden shot on an iphone4.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Spielberg has never shot on anything other than film for major projects. Jurassic Park included.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

"Today, its years are numbered, but I will remain loyal to this analogue artform until the last lab closes." -Steven Spielberg

Steven Spielberg & Martin Scorsese: the joy of celluloid | Art and design | The Guardian

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Personally I think the 4.6k sensor may be better for ENG style Doc work. If you're going to have to go shoulder mount, it'll give you a bit more room to stabilize in post... assuming you want 4k delivery for your Doc. That and higher frame rates for slow motion. Wider dynamic range will help when you have to shoot on bright sunny days where you don't have the lighting controls and still need good shadows as well. That delivery might seem like a small market now but it might not be in three years. The question for some will be, how much longer can you extend the life of the camera for the additional $2k.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Agreed. To be honest, even with a 4.6K Ursa Mini, I expect that I'll do most of my shooting in 2K, ProRes HQ.

There will be times when it will be very nice to have the option of shooting 4K, and times when the extra flexibility you can get in post to shoot in RAW, but most of the time, it will be overkill.

It does have its advantages when you're shooting in situations where you can't control your environment or timing, like ENG to have 15 stops of dynamic range... but even then, most of the time, ProRes HQ will be enough. :)

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Michael,
I didn't say Spielberg shot in digital, I said that even if he'd shoot in 16k what he does doesn't interest me a bit.
Yes, I can see why 15 stops of DN and raw could be interesting for anybody who doesn't control the situation such at ENG, sports events, etc.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

ENG , sports events etc, don't have the time to deal with RAW, these productions commonly have fast turnarounds, a lot of the time there's no grading unless there's a problem (unless for a promo or sting). It's the cameraperson's job to get it right in the camera.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I'd shoot ProRes. You can toss a LUT on but don't forget Blackmagic Cameras can shoot Rec 709 rather than flat. 4.6k would have good value for sports as it would give you a big window on a 1080 timeline to cut to a close up on a play you couldn't get close to on time. Then there's the slow mo at 120fps I believe.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I suspect that a lot of the people who insist on shooting in RAW don't realize that you get access to the same dynamic range when you're capturing in ProRes that you do when capturing in RAW, since the capture mode doesn't change the sensor or the front-end image processing.

I wonder if adding LUT support is in the card for the Mini. It would be nice to be able to craft a look on set, Alexa-style, and deliver footage that's closer to edit ready than film LOG or rely on rec 709.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

BMD site still says "Shipping in July" for all four versions, but the B&H site has been updated with "Expected availability: Mid September 2015"
From what some of you were saying, this was to be expected.

Mark

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Blackmagic not shipping on time?!?!?

My heart... Can't take...

Oh wait, yeah BlackMagic. I'm going to say January.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

So... You're an optimist ;)

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Laughing... :)

I find there's no point in being anything but an optimist in life... except when it comes to camera shipping dates - then I add 0.5 - 1.5 years. Keeps me from being dissapoint!

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

True. The important thing is to not let a camera delay stop you from making movies. The truth is that anyone who can't make a great film using a BMCC simple can't make a great film, probably because they're too lazy to learn how.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

That's the truth... The two most important lessons from the entire history of DVinfo...

1) The best camera is the one that feels good in your hands and you have with you.

2) The best camera to buy for your film is the one that you can buy today.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Yes, both are true. It's why I ended up investing in a Cion. It's insanely user friendly, it's dependable (thank you, AJA) and the images I'm getting with it are gorgeous.

It will tide me over until I get my Ursa Mini. :)

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

3) The camera of your dreams will never be built.

4) If it does get built, you can't afford it.

;)

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

And URSA mini is delayed again now its somewhere mid September and i am not even optimistic about it, going by their old record on delivery times.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

5) If the camera does get built and you can afford it, by then it will already be a better camera in the pipe.

-- peer

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

And no matter what camera you have, the most important part of it is behind it.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I think that should be amended to:
5) If the camera does get built and you can afford it, a better and cheaper camera will be announced THE DAY AFTER YOU BUY IT.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

BlackMagic have announced a B4 mount for the URSA Mini at IBC.

For the $295 user upgrade they say: "simply take the PL lens mount off where it is normally removed for shimming PL lenses and bolt on the B4 lens mount." and "also features spherical aberration correction so customers can use their lenses wide open with no blooming effect."

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Hopefully the existence of a B4 adapter means a Nikon F one can also be made.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

Here's a review of the viewfinder.

Pro Video Coalition - Blackmagic's URSA Viewfinder Review by Brian Hallett

More on the lens mount options.

http://www.provideocoalition.com/bla...-for-usra-mini

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I remember the URSA Mini... from back in the olden days before the Red Raven. I still have it on pre-order... to cancel or not to cancel?

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

The sample video is beyond reproach. Now the question is, besides the wait, would you have the wherewithal, the time to promptly keep up with some essential firmware updates, and the right accessories to nail the shots? My short experience with the first BMCC and later the BMPCC makes me wary just by looking at the specs of the new camera. The lack of a built-in ND for example, is a start.

Re: BlackMagic - URSA Mini
 

I briefly chuckled to myself when considering who was most likely to blow a deadline, Red or Blackmagic.