Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Just reading what you said only confirms my belief that his review isn't reliable. He sounds like the type of guy who scrutinized video with a magnifying glass.

What I've come to learn all cameras exhibit noise in the shadows and yes even @ 0db. Granted some more than others. Cameras in addition do a lot of processing to remove noise. Ever look at unprocessed log video you'd be shocked.

The reviewer characterizes the camera as "unusable" . By his standards what camera would be usable?

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Ok, this is the most boring video ever but I did it and here it is. Shot with 12dB the whole time and adjusted the aperture for exposure. Film Like 3 gamma, Still-Like Matrix. Minor contrast adjustments and some stabilization. Excuse the messy office. Hopefully there will be something more interesting to shoot in the next few days, but it's -5 degrees outside right now and I'm not keen to go outside.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Looks great.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I agree! And with 12db gain too.

Maybe the bad review on B&H was due to:
1.) operator error
2.) defective camera
3.) a negative review from a competing company attempting to make them look bad

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Nate, can you upload somewhere the original records of that video? (not all just few seconds)

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Here ya go: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qbgi8j9nt...ZuD8FUu0a?dl=0

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Thanks Nate, we are talking for the same small noise.

I load it on editor and even on 100% of zoom I see this small noise. It’s not something important, x264 encoding will remove the most of the noise, but if you need to crop or to make some digital zoom to correct the frame it should a little problem. Of course we can use noise reduction software, but render will take longer.

The good is that it produces the same noise even on 12db, and that’s impressive.

By the way, as I look more shots, I think that is more like jpeg artifacts than noise. Maybe it’s the codec and not the lens. Or as Pete says, all cameras have the same small noise, unfortunately I can’t compare it for example with a Sony FS7 type of camcorder to see raw shots.

Thanks again.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Anthony, I'm glad to help out in your research. That being said, I think you might be expecting too much from this particular camera. When it all comes down to it, you have a small-ish, high resolution 4K sensor, recording a highly-compressed codec onto SDXC cards in 8-bit. In fact, I would say that the compressed UHD footage is really helped by that noise in order to reduce 8-bit banding.

Just for kicks, I put another clip in that dropbox link I posted earlier, a scene I shot with the Sony A7S2. While the sensor is vastly superior to the UX180, it records internally to a very similar codec: 100mbps XAVC-S UHD at 8-bits. I think that it exhibits some very similar characteristics. You might need to put a little contrast/saturation grade on it.

Now, I'm not defending the UX180. It does have noise, and I do see it. But the real question is does it look "good enough" for the types of projects it's meant to be used on, and does it look good enough for you to be happy with it. I think that for certain projects where a shooter needs a grab and go camera, it really seems like a great option. I'm impressed so far in that regard. If I was shooting a cinematic style video, the UX180 wouldn't be my first choice. I'd use a super 35mm or full frame camera to do that, like the A7S2 or FS7 you mentioned before. A camera that records on a large sensor, in a robust codec and a higher bit depth.

BUT :
I don't want to go shoot a low budget event with a FS7. I don't want a half dozen lenses. I don't want 480mbps 4K XAVC-I files to deal with. I also don't want to spend 3-5x the amount of money on a camera if projects don't require it. Also, if you've ever done sporting events, news, concerts, conferences, or pretty much anything that you don't get to yell "Action!" and "Cut!," you know how much it sucks to shoot those things with interchangeable lens "cinema" cameras. That is where a camera like this shines. In the cinematic stuff? Not so much.

That's a decision for anyone interested in purchasing a camera. What will they actually be using it for? If it's for work? Or is it for you? If it's for work, think about what would make the job the easiest, most profitable for your business, and give the expected results for the client. If the camera is just for you, don't try to force yourself to like the images - if they don't make you happy now, they never will. If you need to shoot RAW video of you cat to be satisfied, that's awesome - it's only a terrible choice if you're trying to run a business and put food on the table with your video work.

I believe that to look so closely for noise in footage is a losing battle. As you mentioned, the noise disappears on YouTube! Besides handing over raw files or MAYBE BluRay discs, how would an end viewer ever notice it? Even 99% of people have their HDTVs set up to do "noise reduction" or "reality creation" or whatever other crappy processing comes standard. I'd even go so far to say that the vasty majority wouldn't notice the noise even if it was there...but that's an argument for another day :)

TL;DR:
If image quality is the most important thing to you at all costs, don't get this camera, especially if you prefer to shoot cinematic style content. If you want a capable do-it-all camera for fast moving shooting, I think it's a very decent choice.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Just had to say well said Nate! Great advice.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Nate, I can’t agree more with you… but the problem is that sometimes clients disagree with that. Yes, UX180 it’s a big improvement for my current equipment, but I have to do the right choice on a “logical” price.

Sony Z150 was good for me until I found the limitation with LCD, Output and 4K recording (of course there are more limitations but I said I can live with that). UX180 doesn’t have a lot of features that Z150 does, but it’s more a camcorder and not a firework (sorry Sony but you think more the marketing and not the real life)

I will never use an FS7 type camera just for conferences and small events (my job is to stream live conferences, with of course the on demand option), because I will never get the money of my investment back. But always we search for the perfect.

For me UX180 is enough, and I don't like it, but I can “live” with that small noise (I am close to buy 2 camcorders to cover my events).

Thanks again.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Nate, thank you for posting the original clips. They are very helpful. How does the low light on the UX180 hold up to your C100?

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I'm not really sure I guess. I haven't had a chance to see them side by side just yet. The UX180 is sharper of course, but the C100 has always had that 'mojo." Perhaps I can do a test of some sort this week. I don't think it's going to be close when it comes to low-light, but we'll see. C100 base ISO is supposed to be 850 and I believe Barry said the UX was supposed to be somewhere around 450? A good question for sure and one that I need to answer for myself when deciding if it's worth it for me to switch over from C100s to the UX cams for events.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Just placed my order for a HC-X1 instead of the UX180...I don't need the sdi outs

The manual for HC-X1 says it does 120fps in 1080p mode without audio....does this mean that it automatically records in slow motion on the SD card or do I have to do the slow motion in post (meaning it records at regular speed like the sony z150)?

Thanks

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I was also able to borrow the UX180 for a while.

Here's some select videos in 4K 60p.

Rest of my UX90 and UX180 can be found in this playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfiUWslpPfwxqRiTeFDUNY-DHI_zJkBHH
Still have a couple of more UX180 videos to edit and upload.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Late afternoon scenes that I took at the beach when I still had the camera.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Looks like nothing that couldn't easily have been done with an iPhone.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Now that was a great comment, can't imagine how silly all those ux180 owners must feel for wasting their money on a camera that cannot even be used to make a phonecall.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I guess the professional look of the AG-UX180's camera body and lens would be more impressive to a client than bringing an iPhone to a shoot, but you have to admit that that video shows nothing that couldn't be done on an iPhone. Unless you need to impress a client by the physical characterisics of your camera, why spend the money? I know I won't. Provideo camera manufacturers really need to step up their game. I want to see something absolutely stunning in the $4,000 price point, not this mediocre stuff.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Before I"m off to buy the Iphone, does it have a optical 20x motorized zoom, build in ND filters, dual slot recording, SDI out and XLR in out of the box just to name a few?
Maybe you could share something that you shot for a client on a mobile phone that doesn't look mediocre?

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I know the 180 can't even make a call. Lol Panasonic step up your game or I'm replacing you with the iPhone [/coo-coo]

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

OK. I was trying to be nice about it, and not say it directly. No one seems to get that what I'm saying is that the results from that Panasonic camera look dismal and boring. I'm not talking about the 20x zoom, the XLR audio, etc. I'm talking about the resultant end product of those videos that were posted, shot by that camera. They aren't good. If you think they are, you're kidding yourself. Geez, it's like the Emperor's New Clothes and I'm the one pointing out that the Emperor is naked.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

You want a Nobel prize for pointing out the obvious that consumer devices with small sensors perform well in bright situations such as outdoors?