Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Interesting. I like the 1" sensor. I guess it's the competition to Sony's Z150.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Except that the AG-UX180 has an 20x optical zoom and UHD 60p, two things that the Sony doesn't have.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Good point!

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

It is what I was hoping Sony would bring out as an upgrade to my FDR-AX1. Mayb e even better it lives up to the initial information. I expect it will have the capabilities of the HCX1000 and DVX200 so things like touch focus that the PXW-Z150 also lacks. DVX200 for the people who want the shallow depth of focus and 1" for those like me that shoot events where we want everything in focus !!!

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but is it at all possible to get a 2/3" camera in a body this size? Even single chip?

The Sony EX1's 1/2" chips were a really nice blend of low noise, while still being relatively cheap & the 14x zoom was great. 2/3" would still give more (or less?) DOF than 1/3" or 1/2" cameras, but it's a little easier to put on a long zoom lens.

Still, I'm OK w/ these 1" chips since the 180 has a much longer zoom than the DVX200, and could possibly be a really nice event camera. (Keeping fingers crossed for good user feedback when they hit the streets.)

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Not in that size, but there is a new 2/3" 4K camera: It appears to be a single chip.

Sony PXW-Z450 Is First 4K XDCAM Shoulder Camcorder With 2/3-type image sensor at DV Info Net

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I was expecting a lot from the Z150, but now I'm kinda miffed Panny is offering the same thing for cheaper and has a 4K 60p option. I guess the chips aren't there yet for XAVC-L 4K 10bit 4:2:2. Maybe that's what Sony is waiting for from the ASIC manufacturers.

But as of now, Sony's getting the cheapest, highest volume ASIC encoder chips which currently are still limited to 4K 30p. Panasonic seems to have the 4K 60p budget market in their sights. The UX180 is perfect, aside from 8bit 4:2:0 Long-GOP.

If the UX180 has no arbitrary HDMI 2.0 8bit 4:2:2 limit, I might go for a Shogun Inferno if the DNxHR mode also supports 4K 60p (Before Convergent Design, bear in mind)

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I expect it is purely marketing. They do have the processors because they are in my FDR-AX1. I suspect they do not want to have a camera recording to SDXC cards because that would hit the reason for XQD for high data rates. The internals of the FS5 clearly support high frame rates since they have just announced a RAW option for UHD 60P. So the only difference is encoding/recording for 8bit 4:2:0 ( just like the Z100 ) but to SDXC cards which are quite fast enough for 150Mbps. Yes you may be correct in that the processor that Panasonic uses encodes to h264 and not XAVC ( i, S or L ) however Sony does have processors to do this in the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 in both mov and mxf. These are also in the same price range as the DVX200 and the upcoming AG-UX range. Marketing not engineering I am sure. When the UX range comes out this fall Sony will not have a competing product to the AG-UX180 it will be a better and lower cost product than the PXW-Z100 so I expect both the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 will be discontinued. They could of course upgrade the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 with a new lens and 1`sensor as all the rest of the camera will work fine !!! Will they do that ?

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

If they did a proper UX180 competitor with 10bit 4:2:2 for both XAVC-I 4K and XAVC-L 4K, that would be the new EX1 of the 4K generation.

Your AX1 and Z100 use FPGAs rather than ASICs. Sony can source ASICs for cheaper and in much higher volume than expensive FPGAs, so that's what's holding back low power 4K 60p. Remember that Panasonic has been known to use multiple encoder chips to achieve higher pixel counts. DVCPRO HD was just 4 DV codecs and encoder chips.

As for the cards, Sony isn't as lenient about advertised SD card speeds... which UHS-II could go a long way in helping solve this problem.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

The point I was making Jack is that the core of the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 are already there and in the same price range as the Panasonics. If they left most things the same and just upgraded the lens and sensor they would have some competition. Yes I agree they could make it lower cost and likely use less power with newer electronics. So what ? They are setting themselves up to loose this market segment to Panasonic.

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Could be good. Fingers crossed.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Actually, they are purposely using lower cost and less power to produce in higher volumes, at the absolutely unjustifiable cost of a 30p limit in 4K. Most companies in Japan are putting less money into R&D and it's just progressively getting worse. I totally agree they're setting themselves up to lose. If they did take the FPGA guts of a Z100 and put it with a 1'' sensor capable of 60p, that would be your camera right there (and a Fujinon manual lens would make the deal even sweeter)

Sony needs to realize to duplicate the success of the Z1U and the EX1, they need to not just rely on the FS7 to be the ONLY decent 4K 60p camera.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Yeah, but the price tag is as big as the camera. Worth it for sure, but I'm still wanting the 2/3" 3k for $3k that Red promised in 2009.

The most reasonable thing that I could see happening is BMD taking their $300 B4 lens mount adapter for the Ursa Mini & revision it for their Micro camera at that same cheap price. Yeah there are other adapters that correct for the 3 chip to single chip, but they're all $1k+.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I remember the original Scarlet. I wish RED had gone through with it. I would have gotten one. 2/3" sensor would have been fine with me, especially for only $3,000. I heard they couldn't get the fixed zoom lens to work.

Actually, the Canon XC10 doesn't seem to be that far off from the Scarlet concept.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Panasonic gives more info about price and release date of AG-UX180 & AG-UX90.

Panasonic UX Series of 4K Camcorders at DV Info Net


http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales...f/ag-ux180.pdf
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales...f/ag-ux90p.pdf

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

If I understand good, just unbelievable. OK you can insert a 128GB card but you can use only 96GB. This means that you lose 32GB...nice... correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT : Did they mean each file size not overall amount that recorded into card?

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Don't understand the " recording will not stop." comment either. I want to shoot UHD 60P for over 2 hours at 150Mbps that will blow past 96G . Must find out more about that. I would have thought it just started a new clip/file on each card like my FDR-AX1. There certainly isn't a file size limit for exFat of any real concern. Just checked my Video Assist recording Prores 4:2:2 from my NX5U started a new file at 93G when I recorded continuous for 2hours 25 mins. Card was a 256 U3 card . Maybe there is a metadata file limit that means it has to start a new file. I guess we will find out.

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

In this page http://news.panasonic.co.uk/pressrel...m-lens-1541570 they write this

Maybe it's a phrase/typography error. Maybe they mean after 96GB the file splitted. But this is LARGE file size. Sony Z150 max file size is 8GB, after that it splits and this is good for safety reason.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Did you notice the actual Panasonic US website page for the new HC-X1
4K Ultra HD Professional Camcorder - HC-X1 - Panasonic US

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

All Panasonic new series (HC-X1, AG-UX180 & AG-UX90) have the same body and similar features.

My last quote that it says file size and not data amount was for HC-X1 but it's the same for all new series.

Douglas what you mean?

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Where did you see Z150 max file size ? My FDR-AX1, FDR-AX100 and AX53 use XAVC-S like the Z150 and have not checked the max but the AX1 will fill XQD 64G cards one after the other with no problems and the AX100 ( the closest to the Z150 ) will certainly go way past 50G the most I have recorded in one go so far all one file. I have 128G cards for the AX100 and AX53 will have to see if they also stop at about 93 like the Video Assist.

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

I remember that someone mentioned in a post. It says that Z150 splits files every 8GB (for example my old Canon XF100 split's files every 2GB).

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

These cameras are VERY interesting. Especially the 180.

I wonder.....I strongly suspect Panny is buying Sony's 1inch-type sensors for this but are they also buying Sony's "full pixel" readout and scaling engine too?

I wonder how much of this motherboard and processing was purchased from Sony too. Hmmm....so, I'm really curious as to how good the overall image quality and detail is and how it will compare to the Sony Z150.

Wow.....I actually might buy my very first Panasonic camcorder. I have to think that Sony will have a Z150 "big brother" planned very shortly to answer this Panny 180 though.

CT

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

BIG THING TO NOTE:

No simultaneous record and 4K output. HDMI and SDI cannot be output simultaneously. (Back to the days of the EX1R in that regard) No 10bit HDMI out on this model neither, and the 4K 60p output over HDMI like the DVX200 is crippled to 8bit 4:2:0.

Also, no V-log. only 8 selectable standard gammas.

It seems none of the recent cameras of note have simultaneous 4K internal record and output.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Not enough processing power onboard to get everything. One thing at a time. For the price it is stillvery good so far as I can tell.

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

In brochure it says only that "HDMI and SDI signals cannot be output simultaneously", it doesn't say anything about 4K recording and output. But if you mean this "Images output during UHD 60p and UHD 50p recording are FHD." yes it can't give 4K output while recording 4K, it gives only FullHD. But for the cases that you need it this isn't the only limitation (you need better camera ;) )

If it does the same thing as Z150 (LCD switched off while 4K & Output) I will say on Z150 for my choice that have the same limitation.

P.S. By the way I like a lot the "TC PRESET" on AG180, I work a lot with multi-cam and you don't need an external Time Code Generator.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Directly under that in the same part of the brochure:

4K DCI 24p might be safe in that regard, but who knows... Might just be a carbon copy of the limitations of the DVX200, but even more so without the 10bit mode.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Yes I was understand that later and I correct my above post while you posting, hehe....

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Forget shooting for Rec. 2020 and HDR with this. The only Prosumer camera on the market with that compliance (bear in mind, in 60p) is the Sony FS7 in 4K XAVC-I mode. Even then, it's only 4K output over HDMI must be 8bit 4:2:0 in 60p as well. Want lower compression than XAVC-I? You have to go all the way up to the F5 and it's 4x 3G-SDI outputs and with the 4K software option.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

(because editing time ran out on the previous post)

Considering Sony's lack of showing sub $6000 cameras at IBC, I may be seriously considering a UX180 if Sony doesn't impress (which they won't) before NAB.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Wait.....what happened to the Panasonic HC-X1? This camera has fallen of the face of the Earth?

It seems to be the exact same camera as the AG-UX180 but with the SDI removed. The Panasonic HC-X1 is still on B&H's website at $3,199. This seems to compete perfectly with Sony's Z150.

Panasonic is no longer promoting it? Instead, they are now pushing the UX90 &180?

Strange. Does anybody see the HC-X1 at IBC at all?

CT

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Panasonic HC-X1 is a consumer camera. Panasonic promotes it on IFA only.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

The HC-X1 is almost exactly the same as the UX180 with the SDI and timecode connections missing. About $300 price difference. The UX90 is a much lower spec model. As a Sony user I think the AG-UX180 is more camera than the Z150. UHD 50/60P and 20x zoom for example. We will have to wait for more information and tests though. It would need some extras ( like the wireless USB plug ) . With the UX90 one may question why one would buy the NX100 and still be something to look at even if considering the Z150. I think Sony will have to do something similar ?

Ron Evans.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

What about the compatible accessories?

Well. Here they are:

AJ-WM50P Dual Band AC USB Wi Fi Module that allows for wireless network connectivity in Panasonic professional IP enabled cameras (AVC-Ultra, Varicam, DVX200, etc.).

AG-VBR118G Replacement battery for DVX200, PX270, 11800mAh

AG-BRD50P Dual battery charger for AG-BRD50P, AG-VBR118G, AG-VBR59P, AG-VBR89G

AG-VBR59P Replacement battery for AC30, DVX200, PX270 (7.28V / 5900 mAh)

AG-VBR89G Replacement battery for AC30, DVX200, PX270 (7.28V / 8850mAh)

VWVBD58PPK Replacement battery for AJ-PX270, AG-AC30 and other hand-helds (7.2V / 5800mAh)

AGB23P Single Battery Charger

AGMC200G Unidirectional Microphone

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

On 2:45 on this video I see that the LCD monitor remains too reflective. It's like DVX200 monitor that it was too reflective also.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

First Video of the UX90


Picture is nice and with very good colors.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

About 96GB that it says in brochure,

I just got the operating manual of UX90 in my hands. About this I have good news (as expected).

In manual they say "When the file size of a recorded scene exceeds one of the following sizes or the recording time exceeds one of the following lengths time, the scene will be divided automatically. (Recording continues.)"

And on the table below it says

AVCHD scene : Approximately 4 GB
MOV/MP4 scene (when using an SDHC Memory Card) : Approximately 4GB or 30 minutes
MOV/MP4 scene (when using an SDXC Memory Card) : Approximately 96GB or 3 hours

So everything is good, and I think that is the same for UX180.

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Does the manual say anything about the slow motion? Is it 120fps continous (no buffering)?

Thanks!!

Re: Panasonic AG-UX180 & AG-UX90
 

Unfotunately UX90 as I read doesn't support that. They say about slow motion but only using Variable Frame Rate (VFR) Mode. As I know from the specs UX180 supports 120fps

I will send you a message with UX90 Operating Instuctions