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September 26th, 2005, 02:23 AM | #16 | |
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I think that you're most likely right about the HVX200 having a nice quality image. But I just can't see any easy way of keeping a years worth of material on hand, on any other medium than tape at this point. Hopefully by the time your shoot rolls around, someone will have solved this problem. Perhaps a portable blue-ray DVD recorder or some such thing? I've only recorded short sailing trips and the King's Cup regatta in Phuket, but you do get some amazing footage. I envy your project! |
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September 26th, 2005, 01:14 PM | #17 | |
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Maybe I missread some of your post, but it sounds like you're going to be out on that boat for long durations. Being an IT person and having spent several years managing computer systems, I would like to mention redundency. Again, not sure about your exact scenario, but I doubt you'd want to be on the water with 2 months to go and have to sit around not shooting video because a cheap $100 hard drive broke down. To this end I'd recommend: * A PC (or mac, whatever) with at least 2 hard drives configured in a hardware RAID. * A spare hard drive that matches the ones in the computer. * 2 External DLT drives. Yes, its expensive, but rarely they CAN fail early on. I've seen it, stuff happens. The good news is you keep the second one in the package and Ebay it off when you get home. * A spare camcorder. Ok, you might not be able to cough up 6K for a second HVX, but maybe $1800 for a Sony HC1? I'm assuming some HDV footage would be better than no footage, should the HVX break down/drop in the ocean, etc.. Again, maybe even keep it in the box and sell it off when you're done. Ok, I think I'll call it quits there. You still have some single points of failure there, but I think that would cover you pretty well. Remember, the cost of adding RAID and 2 drives will be pretty small and you'll recoup the majority of the money you spend on the extra DLT and camcorder. Now if you're not going to be at sea for weeks or months at a time and can pick these things up easily, then of course most of this is overkill! If budget simply doesn't permit the purchase of spare items, at the very least try to get a computer with a cheap on-board hardware RAID and the two drives. Its quite affordable and at least provides some protection against hard drive failure. Good luck! Philip Williams www.philipwilliams.com |
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September 26th, 2005, 08:44 PM | #18 | |
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September 26th, 2005, 09:23 PM | #19 |
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i think philip gives really good advice, we did a job traveling through the panama canal and we backed everything up on dlt tapes and at every town we could we express mailed them back to nyc studio just in case the ship went down or our stuff was stolen...
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September 27th, 2005, 01:19 AM | #20 |
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How about another boat to put all this kit and editor on :)
Seriously I would consider HDV, possibly the Canon or JVC as it would simplify this particular workflow and in a years time Discovery and Nat Geo may not be so hostile to it as a format. The fact you're leaving in July will give you plenty of time to work this one out, but if it was me I would want the system with the fewest things to go wrong especially in the hostile conditions you may face. Having said that, it would be worth trying a HDV camera on a boat first, some people have reported problems with HDV where every pixel in the frame is moving, this will certainly be happening on your trip, particularly in rough seas. I've shot with a Z1 on a boat to try and replicate this problem, although the sea wasn't too choppy I couldn't make the compression fail. |
September 27th, 2005, 02:34 PM | #21 | |
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Ok, seriously, I did run across a post here or on dvxuser (I can't find the thread for the life of me now) where a guy posted direct frame grabs from an HD100. One of the frames had a fair amount of water and it definitely had serious MPEG2 blocking. I imagine the blocking would be mostly unnoticable during playback, but it might be bad enough for a picky Discovery Channel engineer to poo poo a project. If Bruce is thinking of going with HDV, I'd definitely recommend renting and testing to be 100% positive that it'll work under the circumstances of his project. Just an FYI, I'm pretty neutral on this whole "HDV vs Other HD flavors" thing. I've liked all the HDV footage I downloaded. Given a choice I'd certainly prefer the HVX's discrete frames with 4:2:2 color, but I'll take decent HDV over standard DV any day. And there is something to be said for being able to record onto $5 tapes! Philip Williams www.philipwilliams.com |
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September 27th, 2005, 05:49 PM | #22 | ||||||
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Wow! What a great response. Thank you all for the great support.
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* I will certainly be having two laptops on board, but I question the need for a RAID array. If I'm going to be storing the material on DLT or on independent hard drives, what would the RAID protect? I will not be offlining on location so the computer will only be used to edit off unusable material and as an interface between the Firestore and the independent HDD. * The computers will be matched. * 2 DLT drives?...ouch! Okay...I'll check my budget. But it might end up cheaper to go the HDD method with matching HDD in a protected pelican as suggested by Scott earlier in this post. * I've thought about the spare camera, but as I mentioned earlier, I was able to protect my DV camera quite well last time and I will be even more carefull this time. Also, there's no-where on this planet (well almost no-where) where you can't get stuff shipped into...and if it breaks...well the price might just have come down by then! Quote:
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Thanks again for everyone's input! Cheers, Bruce |
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September 27th, 2005, 09:59 PM | #23 | |
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shoot... capture...backup...mail...we were working with dv files, we shot 8 hours of footage a day for 4.5 days... we had dv tapes, footage on hardrive, and a backup on dlt (which was mailed)...we did some logging at night but after a long day somone else did it back in ny, so when we got back a rought draft was ready to go in a few days...bring extra laptop batteries, we only brought one laptop, two would be smarter, foul weather gear for your cam and all that good redundant stuff, lighting for shooting inside the cabin and at night... i think the p2/hd workflow would be better then tape in this scenario, with tape it was such a pain to spend one hour per tape to back it up onto the hard drive, when sleep or other things were in order, 8 tapes a day took us 4 hours every night, our capture software was canopus that allowed us to capture up to 3 streams at a time, our lap top could only handle 2 backing up off a p2/hd leaves more time for logging and sleep...and a good nights sleep is everything Last edited by Robert Mann Z.; September 28th, 2005 at 07:16 AM. |
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September 27th, 2005, 10:08 PM | #24 |
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I would consider reliability to be the primary issue. Properly used, any of the 1/3" chip camcorders will give you good footage. They are all 1/3" cameras, and the HDV will be a little bit better than the DV, and the DVCPRO HD should be a little bit better than the HDV, but they're all still going to be fairly close because they're all 1/3" chip cameras. What I've seen of the Sony HDV from two different Z1 cameras looks pretty good, better than equivalent DV footage from a PD170. I would stick with tapes for proven, reliable sturdy technology. If I were going to do it, I probably would go with a Z1 and an FX1 for backup in case the Z1 got damaged. I'd also get an underwater housing--not the kind you use for diving with a camera, but one of those flexible ones good to about 10 feet, which should allow you to shoot in bad weather and with waves crashing over the bow.
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September 27th, 2005, 10:21 PM | #25 | |
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Now having said that, I guess its a mute point in your case since you'll be using laptops. If you're taking two laptops - and they're both capable of working with your HVX footage and offlining to external drives/tapes - then you're set. Forget redundent drives, you've got redundent computers! If you were traveling with one laptop I'd actually recommend removing the fully loaded hard drive (with OS, editing software, etc..) and then installing a second drive and loading the OS and software on that. Then if that drive fails you just drop it out and slip in the spare drive and boot up - instant work computer! A nice insurance policy for a couple bucks. Philip Williams www.philipwilliams.com |
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September 28th, 2005, 03:01 PM | #26 | ||
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Cheers, Bruce |
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September 29th, 2005, 01:35 AM | #27 |
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The BBC sees HDV as a consumer format (listed as such in the draft BBC Guide to HD referenced earlier in this thread). At the London Video Forum, held earlier this year, the BBC HD man speaking there said that HDV was not accepted as HD for co-production with partners like Discovery, and it would not command the HD premium payment rate. HDV sounds like something you will need to negotiate if this view still prevails at the Discovery channel.
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September 29th, 2005, 02:43 PM | #28 |
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HDV seems to be at the same point DV was just a few years ago. Eventually lots of people will be shooting HDV and making HD dubs for TV and for festivals, just as they now shoot DV and make Betacam and Digibeta dubs (and sometimes HD) for festivals, local TV, etc. No 1/3" chip HDV camera is going to replace a 2/3" chip HD camera, just as a 1/3" chip DV camera doesn't replace a 2/3" chip DV or DV50 camera. But these cameras are already significantly better than their DV predecessors.
Having owned numerous sailboats (the last one being a 34-footer) I can attest to the difficulties of electronics and a sailing environment. I would not want to be burdened with computers and hard drives when trying to shoot video, and I wouldn't want to always have to transfer my original footage to a drive and then back it up and then delete what I shot on so I could reuse it. To my way of thinking, that's a studio environment type of workflow. And I wouldn't want to do a gig like that without a second camera. |
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