Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

I not so sure this is an upgrade, rather a new product. Perhaps it should have been called something else and that would have cut out a lot of the issues.

I can imagine lots of broken workflows when you change paradigm, hence with FCP X is not for everyone.

Having said that I'm sure there will be support for monitoring, perhaps via thunderbolt (and maybe third parties). Apple have said they'd be updating sooner and more often and perhaps soundtrack will be another add on product soon.

I can totally understand the frustration of facility houses who have built workflows around FCP in the past.

cheers
paul

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

I must say I'm disappointed as well. I moved to FCP from an AVID PC world because of the deep rich features it had. No other NLE offered so much under the hood. Performance wasn't there for rendering but I didn't care because I felt FCP didn't hold me back. I tried every NLE out there and honestly felt FCP was the best extension to what I do.

FCPX on the other hand is just unacceptable for professional software. Sure if you want to edit simple projects or vacation videos it is nice and really attempts to take editing to the next level. There is just too much missing however and honestly kind of an embarrassment.

If you are somebody who does still use tape or uses multi-cam editing everyday FCPX is like taking a step backwards. FCPX borrowed a lot from SONY Vegas so it isn't even like what they did was cutting edge.

I feel as though FCPX was rushed to market before it was ready due to pressure from competition. Apple saw people starting to drift to alternative solutions. Now I think some of those people may drift even faster. Like many others I will continue to use FCP until FCPX gets out of beta or even alpha status. I also think it is time to buy CS5.5 Production Premium.

If you are an indy with no budget who just shoots your own projects on DSLR then FCPX may be a great product. If you actually work with video to pay the bills look elsewhere.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Interesting stuff going on here. I shall be hanging on to FCP6 for the time being, but look forwards to getting this for my new macbookpro in a couple of weeks.

I'm guessing that this version will attract massive contributions from users, like the iphone apps do. So instead of giving us DVD Studio Pro with a couple of dozen cheezy templates, we'll have thousands to choose from (and pay a small sum for) from the general user community.

Just a guess, but I think this would be a good idea, and make access to new stuff inexhaustible. Can't remember how many times i've used those awful DVDSP templates for corporate dvds in the past.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Thomas Smet

"If you are somebody who does still use tape or uses multi-cam editing everyday FCPX is like taking a step backwards."

These omissions are already being taken care of from what i read over at LAFCPUG. They will be coming as updates in the near future. It looks like Apple is putting this out gradually and will take a little time to be complete. A rather unorthodox way of doing things i agree, and all the more reason to wait a bit before taking the plunge.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Sheesh, it seems some folks can't think past "today" when they look at something.
FCPX is missing several important Pro features. It will likely get them in future updates which will come every few months rather than waiting for discs to print and ship.

The new way of thinking is going to be a major exponential speed increase for editors using it compared to other NLEs including FCP7. Project organization based on imported and created metadata is/should be the future. Finding shots, testing alternates, making changes all look to be faster in FCPX. Concepts like Compound clips seem much more efficient than Nesting or breaking things into "sub sequences." Being able to use both Playhead based and Skimming based navigation is going to be a major workflow efficiency improvement.

Sure FCPX is missing a lot. It's a newborn. Sometimes you can look at the new pedigree and see that it's heading in the right direction though. Judged today you'd be correct in that it can't do what mature systems can do. Looking at it though, it should be a much faster system then others within the next year or so with accelerated maturity that the App Store will provide (rapid updates).

It's like learning a new language. If all one knows is English, Esperanto is going to sound like gibberish. If you examine the new language closely, the potential exceeds where other NLEs are going. I've been at this for over 30 years, starting with CMX340 and dubbing with 2" machines and I think this is a new future I'm seeing.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Actually - you are right Craig. I can't see past today, because it is today that I need to be able to do my job and to deliver.
I don't mind glancing at the future, but as you say FCP X is not grown up yet, I agree totally, but I don't run a nursery for software... especially not when I have to pay.
I glady pay money for good software. I am not really concerned if they charge 40 $ extra for another bit of software. But I expect it to be at least a young adult kinda grown up....
I don't want to pay money to be a beta tester. I am not geeky enough for that.

oh and - I do speak 4 languages and currently learning a 5th. Your analogy doesn't really hold up because Languages becuase Language is an inherently complete system. I have never heard of a language that is missing a major part which restrict the users to certain parts of life and not all.
Apart from Esperanto maybe which is an artificial, constructed language that never had any real life use. I hope you are not comparing FCP X to Esperanto. If FCP X is Esperanto it is dead before it reaches childhood...

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Future potential is one thing but an unusable app that was touted as an upgrade Is another. I think that's the real rub. I have thousands of dollars invested in plugins and hardware to make FCP work the way it needs to. I can't use FCPX until all of that investment can be supported. And Apple isn't the first or only company to leave people hanging...Adobe's release of CS5 actually killed a couple of very useful plugins that the companies simply couldn't rewrite code fast enough so I had to find alternates.
Much like Canons late entry into the tapeless camera game, I am hoping that Apple is watching the feedback and can implement changes fast enough to make this the best editing solution out there. But I just don't feel optimistic that they will be quick enough for those of us who do this for a living. I will continue to use FCP since it works but Apple will have to get things very right before seeing any money from me.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Olivier, check out Premiere Pro, it has certainly grown over past few years, and it is very similar to FCP in terms of operation.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Nobody is saying you have to upgrade now. I'm still quite happy with version 6, and will move over when i think the time is right.
New software always takes time to get up to speed, and as well as the upgrades, we can expect some bugs before X hits its stride.

Lest we forget, this is not FCP8 but a completely new program.

Although i've not tried it yet, i'm with the half-glass-full folks here. I think this will be a game changing bit of software within a year. Those complaining about how much better the old version was should ask themselves why they felt compelled to download a completely new application without even reading a review of it.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

There's no reason for you to use it today if you don't need to. You can keep using FCP7 or any other NLE until in matures. Some things grown in womb and some grow external and in this case the gestation is in full view. The advantage of it being being available as that one can start learning NOW.

I remember Avid in 1989 wasn't useful for many things as well. It was even a poor offline system when it was first released.

Apple may be the one company that can pull off Esperanto. I think they can. FCPX is truly an alien edit system to most people. It portends to be much faster and more efficient. I can see that already. Yes you have to wrap your head around something new (Klingon if you prefer) but I already see potential for much faster editing.

Actually usable by many people for many things right now despite glaring omissions to be resolved later. Not everyone uses the features that some pros use. It's usable now for self contained tapeless projects and that covers a lot of ground.

It never was nor could it be an upgrade. AV Foundation is entirely unrelated to Quicktime. Apple kept the name for marketing reasons but this is an entirely new beast with a new media handling structure, not even just a new codebase. It's like moving from OS9 to OSX. One had nothing to do with the other. In this case there's no "classic" feature as of yet though.

It's not simply a radical GUI change. That's superficial. What's going on under the hood is completely new and there's been no equivalent I know of to AV Foundation, hence Esperanto, as this is truly a new language to communicate. It will take some people some time to grasp it but those that do will be much faster editors then those using the older methodology. It's a metadata/database driven system based on new media handling technology. You don't' have to like it but that's doesn't detract from the power that it has and well have as the pro features are added quickly.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

"Today"..let's see today i have a multicam edit to finish by 3:00 pm
Today I have to re-edit a STS 134 project from last April
Today I have to round trip a project to AE

Today is the real world...with real deadlines and real money and expectations.

Don't mean to be terse...use what works for you,,but it is hard to look to tomorrow when you have things to do today. But, again...today... FCP X is rating at 2 1/2 stars on reviews on Apple Store.

Cheers,,,If FCPX knocks my socks off tomorrow..I will buy it. But today...no way.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

But you have to bet on a horse.

For the people out there who never do an external sound mix or never want to do an internal sound mix with a mixer or submixes - fine, use FCPX. Ditto for the people who never want an external monitor. Or who never want to use an advanced color correction system.

I have to start new projects today. I can't use FCPX for them. Do I use FCP 7? Knowing that there is no upgrade path for life? It's been pronounced dead. Or do I make the jump and use Premiere, or Avid, knowing that those companies are definitely catering to professional needs and will continue to.

There is no chance in hades that I'm going to even play with FCPX and learn a new editing paradigm with nothing but hope that Apple, who decided to put out a prosumer product, will suddenly decide that they want to put out a professional one. If they do, I'll cheer and reconsider. But there's no way that I'm betting on that horse.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Hi Paul,

You and I have a similar background although you have many more years on me. I wish there was a good NLE with some of AE integrated at a decent price but the only program I have found is Autodesk's Smoke (Linux or OSX). The bummer is that it costs $15k per seat on Mac or $45k-90k for a turnkey Linux setup. However, if you sign up to FXPHD, you get to use Smoke on Mac for free to learn.

To everyone saying that you should wait for it to 'mature', give me a break - it is 2011 and software developers are amazing now. Its not like OSX just became 64bit or Apple just switched to new hardware. I didn't hear ANY of this when Adobe completely re-wrote Premiere Pro and After Effects CS5 making them fully 64bit in addition to Encore and Adobe Media Encoder - that is 4 programs in 18 months. The ONLY feature I had to wait for was 10bit output from PPro.

I am not happy that FCPX is such a step backwards because it doesn't make Avid and Adobe work harder to make their apps better.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Forgive me, but this is elitist gibberish that is offensive and shows a lack of respect for those who march to the beat of a different drummer than you.

I'm a one man band, and I make a pretty decent living at it. I enjoy not being strapped to a desk in an office. I like very much the idea that if I don't get a paycheck, it's because of my own doing, not because the company I work for has made some poor economic choices. It was tough learning to light, shoot, record sound, edit, mix sound and color correct; but I did it and now I feel freer. It's very satisfying to have your creations actually be your creations.

I'm also not an Apple cheerleader. But in this case I applaud them for taking bold steps to correct the clunkiness of FCP. And I believe more traditionally professional features will come as time goes by... just as they did after FCP1 was released.

If you want to sit in your cubicle and look down your nose at those of us whom you consider unprofessional because we don't fit your mold, you should know a little more about the subject about which you speak. But if you ever get a chance to get out in the field, do a quick cut for the client to look at before you leave and have them smile and say "Wow, that looks great!" I highly recommend you do. It's very satisfying and I appreciate Apple making that possibility a little easier for me.

By the way: At the risk of attracting further scorn from you, I should also mention that in the last few months I have transitioned from horribly expensive video cameras to purchasing and learning how to use several DSLRs. I am absolutely enamored by the images they produce, and after reverting back to the old film-production techniques I learned years ago, it is now my principal means of acquisition. I've even learned how to overcome the audio issues some DSLR detractors keep tossing up for discussion.

I'm anxious to see how this all plays together in FCP X. For three hundred bucks, it won't sting very much if it turns out to be a hinderance, rather than an effective tool to help me along the path I've chosen.

There. I'll climb down from my high horse now.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

I'm really interested to hear how Motion performs & how stable it is.

A while ago I created a new bin mistyped "Motion" as "Motino," looked at the mistake & thought "I'm going to keep it as 'Motino' since that sounds like an alcoholic drink and then maybe gives me the idea that Motion is really drunk all the time, which is what makes it crash all the time."

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Gentlemen, there will be no ad hominem derision or attacks on DVinfo. Please keep all discussion related to the topic and not each other. We Wranglers don't like to wield our lassos, but have no hesitation about doing a rope-a-dope if the need arises. (In other words, threads that go ugly get yanked from view).

It is perfectly possible to discuss suitability for different market segments without insulting others.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

If you are running an up to date OS X (10.6.7) you can look forward to a clean install of OSX and update only to 10.6.6 otherwise Media Composer 5.5 will not run and it will screw up your system... Unless you find a way to downgrade your OS...

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Probably a good idea!

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Noise Industries has already released an update for their plugins that work with FCP-X. I think it's safe to assume that many others will follow soon.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

FxFactory 2.6

Also, I think we'll see quick major updates (both regular-cycle upgrades, and revision number changes), especially compared to the two years it took for FCP 1 to upgrade to the not-so-great ver. 2 (remember, ver. 2 came out spring 2001, but ver. 3 shipped by the end of the year), and all the other upgrades. And I think we'll see affordable revision number changes

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Kind of like playing "peekaboo" with a baby... If they can't see you, they think you've ceased to exist.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

There is actually a very simple way to get your favourite FxPlug plugins to work in FCP X, assuming the plugin already works in Motion 5. You can create a FCP X filter template in Motion 5, "publish" the controls you want, name it, save it, and it will show up in FCP X. I just did it with one of my own plugins and it works fine.
Special dynamic UI stuff won't carry over though, so complicated plugins like Primatte will likely need a rewrite.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

I think I'll go to the London Supermeet and see what Larry has to say about all this...

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Larry's on a very difficult position: he can' t criticize too much FCPX if he wants to sell FCPX' DVD training (and continue to be friend with Apple's guys), but he must be objective about the defaults of FCPX if he doesn't want to loose his credibility…

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

No need for a high horse here. I'm not saying it is useless at all but just not ready for prime time. I'm not really an elitist either. I'm ok with certain things and personally am a huge fan of what FCPX does bring to the table.

With that said however there are certain things pros need to be able to do and I don't see anything wrong with some of else discussing about how it isn't ready for primetime for many of us.

Perhaps the indy remark was a bit harsh but I meant no disrespect about it and was mainly referring to the latest sub culture around video production where everybody with a DSLR thinks they are the new Spielburg. I also use a DSLR these days and am considering selling off the rest of my video gear.

I do like where FCPX is going but it isn't there yet and we are basically moving from a solid platform to one not ready for primetime. I think many pros here would have been fine with this if FCS was still supported. It looks like no new editors will even be able to buy FCS anymore. So if you are a pro and already have it you may be fine to wait it out. If you are a new editor or company you may be stuck with a half finished product.

We also do not know when these updates are coming and if there will be a price. It is possible that things like XML and multicam may be add-on modules that pros have to buy. Lets face it not everybody needs the pro features which is why FCPX 1.0 doesn't have them yet. We all also thought the price seemed a bit low at $299.00 and perhaps there is good reason for that. If you take FCP 7 and remove all the pro stuff missing from FCPX then perhaps it would have also been as cheap. Maybe Apple's thought is to charge for the extra features that only some people still need to use such as XML, OMF and batch capture. Kind of makes sense to me in a way. For those who do shoot (indy and pros) file based material and just need a polished editor then they can get it for a much lower cost then forcing them to buy the entire beast.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

I just saw a share command which allows me to send to CNN iReport.??? What?? I guess CNN paid Apple for that privildege. So did Vimeo, You Tube, etc.

I just can't see how Apple could leave out XML, AAF, or OMF exporting functions but add CNN iReport sharing.

EDIT: My co-worker and I are here laughing at the irony of "new" vs. "old" editing paradigms. Avid and Premiere are often maligned as being old looking in the interface. I've seen a lot of posts by people on this forum and others begging for a "more up to date" and "new" model for editing. So Apple just gave everyone a new model for editing< for what I assume< without doing ergonomic tests with Professional editors. So, Apple listened and gave us a new interface. But, the interface is only part of the process. Avid has had the same interface for decades. It might be old,,but it is proven. It is what is under the hood that counts. And when they teach post production on Avids at schools like USC...there is a solid base of knowledge to work from. Predictability,, yes.

So, Apple just gave everyone what they were asking for. A new interface.

This also reminds us of New Coke...which failed horribly in the 1980's. Maybe they will come back with Final Cut Pro Classic!!!

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

An export function for CNN iReport? Guess there are a lot of "citizen journalists" out there, heh heh.

I want to try FCP X before I go on the record crying foul, or saying it's the greatest thing, or somewhere in the middle. I don't want to be criticizing it too heavily until I actually try it out. Sure, it's missing some important features that many use, and of course there are others who don't use them.

But before I go too far, I want to at least give it a shot, even if it's on a Mac at an Apple Store.

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Didn't Apple themselves say it was "not ready for professional use" before it even came out? And what is the overwhelming comment by people? "THIS IS NOT PROFESSIONAL!"

People are so strange.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

When did Apple say it isn't for professional use? I know Larry Jordan said something like that, then took it back recently.

Apple's press release also states:

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

My bad then. . .guess I got mixed up.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Well, some would agree with you, I suppose. I like that Larry called his article "Wiping Egg Off My Face."

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

David, I'm in the same boat. We have about a dozen open projects going right now. I would never have expected to move them into what was obviously a brand new editing paradigm if every pro feature were available - that would be crazy.

I can't imagine that anyone would be expecting to use "today" a piece of software that is literally 24 hours old. WE all have to take responsibility for our work and Apple let everyone know loud and clear with big pictures that you would be learning new software from day one.

Why would you be thinking of editing todays professional work on a system that would take days to learn at the very least?

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

David Pogue's mostly positive review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/te...3&pagewanted=1

Hat tip to Digital Rebellion's Jon Chappell for tweeting the link, then re-tweeting someone else's link to Pogue's negative review of iMovie '08, which essentially p.o.'d iMovie users, until the latest version righted the wrongs:

Apple Takes a Step Back With iMovie '08 - NYTimes.com

So, I guess Pogue likes FCP X enough to justify all the changes, from UI on down.

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Good podcast here from Rich Harrington and Walter Biscardi on FCP X and their impressions of using it (or not) in a professional environment.

Why We Can't Use Final Cut Pro X at Our Companies : Final Cut Help Tutorials Podcast

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

No offense David but that is patently false. Apple spent several years and millions of dollars to build an entire new 64 bit architecture. The GUI is simply the skin over an entirely newly coded product built on an entire new media system. Complaining about what they haven't implemented so far is reasonable but to purport what you did is simply untrue and misleading on a user forum.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Many, many film schools are teaching Final Cut Pro over Avid these days, or do a combination of FCP, Avid and Premiere Pro. To be fair, I've heard one or two schools teach Vegas Pro.

At any rate, here's something to chew on, as I did with a recent Google search of reactions to Apple announcing Final Cut Studio 2009 (v. 3) and FCP 7... many users were unhappy that Apple didn't update it to 64-bit or add any significant new features, which was true. Now, users are unhappy with the changed interface, missing pro features, etc. Apple can't win, heh heh.

Check out the old thread (you'll need to go through a couple of pages to find thoughts and reviews): http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/final-cu...ced-today.html

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Just the same as why would anyone, circa 2004-06, buy an HD camera and start shooting paid projects immediately, without taking a day or two to get used to it? Back then, many of us went from fullscreen DV to widescreen HD, and it was quite the change, with everything from framing to focus, etc.

I just started thinking about current and upcoming side video gigs for me, and it seems I'd have to keep using FCP 7 for most of one client's projects, since he usually likes to just do small updates to his TV commercials and web videos, and maybe FCP X for a couple of future corporate videos with my other client. I could see this getting a bit, shall I say, schizophrenic?

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

Heath,

Indeed - FCP7 was a wildly minimal upgrade and people were rightfully disappointed with it. And for a company that makes the hardware AND the software, it was ridiculous that they couldn't make their own software take advantage of their own 64-bit architecture. Likewise ridiculous that they couldn't make it take advantage of all the cores of a computer.

But at least they didn't take away functionality that was crucial to a professional work environment. You would have heard more complaints if so.

The reason they didn't update FCP7 to 64-bit, of course, is that they were working on FCPX and planning on only going to 64-bit with a major upgrade. But they made the decision that it was going to be be a prosumer product and not a professional one.

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

You're absolutely right, Barry! I guess all the rumors we heard about it being like an "iMovie pro" (going back to 2010) may have been a little closer to reality than we thought. You'll recall that Apple had to put out an official press release, and Steve Jobs himself said in an email that it would be "awesome." In fact, both Jobs and Apple said it.

I don't want to comment anymore on FCP X until I can at least sit down for 20 minutes with it, which I might do tonight at my local Apple Store.

I guess I just wanted to point out how Apple got flak for FCP 7 and now for FCP X.

heath

Re: FCP X Now available to buy and download from App Store
 

You're righ Jim. Apple did more than just develop a new interface. But 64 bit architectures alone don't functionally help me open older past projects, perform multicam editing, export to Pro Tools, share project files with After Effects, work with broadcast monitors and I/O cards,,,functions that FCP 6 and 7 had and FCP X currently nixed.

We've been messing with FCP X here for a 1/2 day now,,,and the bottom line opinion of me, my co-worker, an editor friend across town at a large post facility called Texas Video and Post agree that FCP X is not ready for professional post production. Too many things missing that affect the entire workflow for our group.

So far, the magnetic timeline is cool (Edius already has it) and I like the audition feature and I;m still getting used to the iMovie feel. But, I just will not be able to use it for my particular projects.

I may have gone a little overboard with the interface statements and musings earlier about FCP X and New Coke...but I don't have the power to mislead anyone here. You guys are on your own and certainly entitled to your own opinions.

Cheers.

Heath..You're right they do teach FCP 7 in more schools than Avid,,,which is why I am more puzzled about the direction Apple is taking overall towards professional post.

Case in point: Apple has nixed : Shake, DVD Studio Pro, Color, Cinema Tools, Sound Track Pro, FCP 7, never really had Blu ray authoring and nixed it's own X-serve. Plus no XML interchange which has become an industry standard protocol.





But come on,,,send to CNN iReport...I mean any pro editor is going to laugh at that!!