from the Final Cut Pro Late Breaking News PDF for 5.1.2 (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Fin....0_lbn_z.pdf):

HDV Format Support and Easy Setups
Final Cut Pro 5.1.2 includes native support and corresponding Easy Setups for the
following HDV formats:

720p24 and 720p25 (JVC GY-HD100 ProHD camcorder)

1080p24 and 1080p25 (Canon XL H1 HDV camcorder); also called 1080F24 and 1080F25

I have two thoughts on this...If it's shooting 24F (24 full frames), you'd get more than 60 minutes on a 60i tape (all tapes are 60i by default, but you can lay pretty much any signal on there). Unless Canon is using a different kind of signal going to tape, something more "robust," which makes 60 minutes take up the tape vs. around 65-70 minutes shot at 24 fps. IE, in 24F, you'd get more than 60 minutes on tape, around 4% more.

Does that make sense with the "more robust signal?" A DSR-11 Sony DV/DVCAM deck defaults to DVCAM when you first plug it in. I forgot to switch it over and dubbed a 40 minute project to a 60 minute DV tape (shot in minidv). Because it went to tape in DVCAM mode, that 40 minute project took up the entire tape!

heath

Evan,

That link didn't work.

heath

ps-I'll borrow a friend's XL H1 and use an old tape I still have of 24F footage and try it out.

We struggled with this recently on a big project. We were trying to get actual 24P (or 24F) out of some footage shot on the H1-24F. If memory serves me correctly, we tried HD SDI and it was 60i. We tried a Convergent Devices box...no go...still 60i. The only way we could get true 24P/F out of it was to capture via HDV into FCP and then output it back out using 24P/F.

I think I have this right. It was a nightmare, so it's been purged from my brain.

Why can't someone just put out a deck that supports Canon's most expensive camera and all of it's frame rates? :-)

KW

odd... here's where I found it: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...cutpro512.html

click on the detailed info link at the bottom and it redirects to the pdf I linked before (maybe they just don't allow direct linking to the pdf).

As far as run times on tapes are concerned I think it's a mistake to say that all tapes are 60i by default. The tape is just a magnetic media onto which any signal could be recorded. If the transport runs at the standard DV/HDV speed then the run time of the tape will be the same regardless of the signal that's recorded onto it.

If canon is in fact recording a 24p signal within the standard 25Mbs HDV bandwidth then it would simply mean they are applying less compression per individual frame, as well as avoiding potential interlaced compression artifacts. However, this would also make the signal incompatible with any other HDV deck which expects to find a 60i stream on the tape - which seems to be exactly what's happening.

My A1 manual specifically says the output from both the SDI (on the G1, same manual for both) & Component terminal is down-converted to 60i (using 2:3 pulldown for 24f), but that output via firewire is progressive, so that would seem to match with what you're describing.

Yes, sounds right. It's not a worry unless you need true 24P for either going to another tape format (which we were...going to the SONY deck to match other footage that was 24P) or doing a filmout.

Good luck.

That link worked and I saw it. Thanks, Evan.

I talked to Apple, as well...they said unless you read about it, that's the problem--it's not labeled as 24F in FCP, so not too many non-XL H1 users know about it.

I'm going to try and get an XL H1 and capture the footage and analyze it, then go back to tape. I want to see if the clip is 24F or 29.97 fps.

heath

Haven't had any time to really shoot/capture much to check this out but I just ran a quick capture of a few seconds of 24f footage through DVHSCap. Looking at the raw m2t file in MPEG Streamclip it reports:

Video Tracks:
2064 MPEG-2, 1440 × 1080, 16:9, 23.976 fps, 25.00 Mbps, lower field first

So I don't know exactly what to make of that - visually it appears to be true 24p footage, Stepping through frame by frame there's clearly no pulldown or interlacing visible in the file, and there are only 24 frames a second. The 'lower field first' is odd though - I tried a second clip and it came out saying 'upper field first', so I'm assuming it's an error in MPEG Streamclip and not an accurate representation of the video.

This is exactly what seems to be happening. The 24p signal is being recorded as 24 actual frames a second, using less compression, which does in fact account for the signal incompatibility with other HDV products. If the signal was being laid down in 60i, then we'd be able to use standard decks, much like with the DVX and XL2.

Barlow Elton has played around with the HD-SDI stuff more than any other H1 owner that I know of, and he says that 24F is laid down into 60i when going through HD-SDI, and that once recorded, you need to remove the pulldown to bring it back to 24p. Barlow also mentioned that FCP seems to be able to write 24F back out to tape. So if you capture 24F, edit and then need to go back to tape, that FCP will write out 24F back to tape correctly. I haven't tried this, as I haven't had a need to go back to tape yet! :)

As for DVHSCap, M2T's and MPEGStreamClip, there could be a glitch in either DVHSCap or StreamClip. Everything that I've captured with DVHSCap and bring into StreamClip that was shot 24F, shows upper field first every time. Maybe DVHSCap flagged something wrong. Maybe StreamClip read the flags wrong. Hard to say really.

At this point, it's pretty obvious to me, and most other H1 and A1 owners that 24F is laying down 24 distinct frames per second to tape. And at least to me, it's obvious that FCP is able to capture 24F using 5.1.2 with no problems, when using the Easy Setup for 1080p24.

Curtis,

Right-click on a captured 24F clip and select Cinema Tools, then select analyze clip. Does it say 24p, 23.98 fps, 24F or 29.97 fps? If it's 29.97 fps, see if you can conform it to 23.98 fps or at least remove the pulldown, if there is one (and it's 29.97 fps). Try outputting it from FCP as a 23.98 fps QT Movie or QT Conversion.

Let us know what happens.

thanks,

heath

Ok, I grabbed one my clips from Halloween that was shot 24F and captured in FCP 5.1.2. Little background info... Using FCP Easy Setup 1080p24, clip was captured using Capture Now from inside FCP's capture window, and was captured to a file using the Apple HDV codec.

Cinema Tools reports the fps to be 23.98. I took a snapshot and posted it here:

http://www.realm.cc/upload/crhoads/Picture%201.png

Out of all the 24F captured footage that I've got on my drive right now, I checked about 7 different clips, and they all report 23.98 fps.



*Edit : Goofed on which codec is being used. Fixed.*

Curtis,

I wonder if making that an uncompressed HD file at 23.98 fps, if someone could take that to a post-house and put it on HDCAM or DVCPro HD?

heath

ps-That shot was scary-looking. nice!

Yes, this is what we went though. If shot, captured via Final Cut 24f and played out 24P via a Kona (only one we tested), it will be true 24P into a SONY deck.

If it's output directly from camera to the deck (via component or HD SDI), it will be read as 60i.

I'm trying to figure out why it's packaged in a 60i stream ONLY out HD SDI...

heath

I've just finished filming with 24f in SD, not HD, on the Canon A1 and can't seem to capture without interlacing. Is it possible FCP is only reading 24f with HD footage? I'm going to try the above, but on the chance anyone can answer why I'm having this problem, gonna give a shout for help.

Thanks!

take a look at page 41 in the manual, it does a good visual job of illustrating what's going on with the various frame modes. Basically, a true 24p signal is only recorded in HDV mode. SD goes to tape in an interlaced signal with either a standard 2:3 pulldown or a 2:3:3:2 mode which I believe would be equivalent to panasonic's 24p advanced mode - so you'd want to use the second mode if you plan to edit the footage as 24p in FCP, there's a lot of good info about this here (scroll down pretty far for the Final Cut Pro settings):

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._nattress.html

Funny enough that's what I came up with, mostly by accident. Thanks for the tip in the manuel. Will def give it a read.

Canon 30F capture and editing in Final Cut Pro
 

OK....just got a new A1 and now I am trying to figure out the proper settings for capture and editing 30f in FCP.

I'm sure someone has already done this....so would you care to share your settings for capture and also your timeline settings for editing.

THANKS!!!

I just tried 30F for the first time. Captured fine on 1080i60 easy setup on the sony firewire setting. FCP 5.1.2, capturing from camera. 1080i60 timeline. Looks beautiful and looks progressive. Frame grabs have no scan lines and no strobing. Don't understand how it works, but it's cool.

I thought 30f captures progressively like 1080p30?

Final Cut Pro And A1 Help Aspap
 

I bought my A1 and tried importing some test footage to my imovie hd and it wont support my camera. It says it's inaccesible. Why is that if the camera is HD and so is the program. It wanted me to down convert it or something so it's not HD but I want it to be all HD when i import it and not look stretched and crappy. I tried switching to final cut pro and tried importing my footage on that and I had to go into signal setup and switch it to PLAYBACK STD: AUTO OR DV not HDV. I just want to import my footage the way it is on the camera without stretching it so much or making it look way worse on the program. What should I do?

Moved from Canon XH to NLE Mac.

On FCP, make sure your device control is set to HDV and your sequence preset is set to HDV 1080 60i or 24p to capture. I've captured footage today that was shot at both 1080i60 and 1080p24 and it works great with FCP.

What settings are you using now? go to FCP menu > audio/video settings

EDIT - I just checked my FCP and forgot I made a custom device control preset for the A1 when shooting 1080 24F. Here are the settings:

Protocol: HDV FireWire
Time Source: DV Time
Frame Rate: 24

My capture preset is 'HDV' and my sequence preset is 'HDV - 1080p24'. When I capture 60i I use the device control 'HDV FireWire' and the sequence preset 'HDV - 1080i60'... and have no trouble. Hope this helps

hey thank you for replying. I am going over my FCP Setting and trying to do what you told me but all it has is HDV- 1080i50, 1080i60, and 720p30 as far as capturing in HD. I dont know why it doesnt have 1080i24 like you said. I'm gonna keep trying stuff. thanks so much for the help though. Any other thoughts about imovie? I have imovie HD and would like to edit on that but it wont let me. Is there a plugin or something I can get to upload my HD Footage because it is imovie HD which is weird..

Oh yea, forgot to mention you need the 5.1.2 Crossgrade upgrade for $50. You need to get it before March though because I think the price will go up. Trust me, its well worth the $50, especially since this will let you use your A1 with it

http://www.apple.com/universal/crossgrade/

Dean,

I can import from my XH A1 in iMovie without a problem. It works on both my Mac Mini and Macbook Pro (both Intel). Maybe you need to check for updates of your iMovie?
You also need to make your project a 1080i project. Whenever I now connect my camera and iMovie is up, the camera gets detected.

Quote: "Any other thoughts about imovie? I have imovie HD and would like to edit on that but it wont let me"

Capture with HDVXHD. Use MPEGstreamclip to convert m2t file to Quicktime Apple Intermediate Codec. Import Clip into imovie.

Hey James
Sorry that was really confusing. I'm not sure I follow. I don't want to go through a process of down converting my footage. I just want it to go straight from my HD Camera to Imovie HD the way it is. Do i need a certain fire-wire cuz mine is kinda old. I'm not sure.

Hey James,
Sorry that was really confusing. I'm not sure I follow. I don't want to go through a process of down converting my footage. I just want it to go straight from my HD Camera to Imovie HD the way it is. Do i need a certain fire-wire because mine is kinda old but I'm really not sure. My footage is 1080i by the way.

Hey James,
Sorry that was really confusing. I'm not sure I follow. I don't want to go through a process of down converting my footage. I just want it to go straight from my HD Camera to Imovie HD the way it is. Do i need a certain fire-wire because mine is kinda old but I'm really not sure. My footage is 1080i by the way.

Hey James,
Sorry that was really confusing. I'm not sure I follow. I don't want to go through a process of down converting my footage. I just want it to go straight from my HD Camera to Imovie HD the way it is. Do i need a certain fire-wire because mine is kinda old but I'm really not sure. My footage is 1080i by the way.

Sorry about all those reply's! My computer is acting up. Sorry about that

It looks like imovie doesn't support the Canon XH series right now.

damn that really sucks because I am so used to imovie. Are you sure it's not because my fire-wire is old and may need a new one or something like an HD fire-wire? I also want to transfer all my footage into FCP without down converting it. I just want it to go straight into FCP as HD. What do i do?

So far, I can't get anything into Final Cut Pro or Imovie from the A1 except SD. or using HDVXDV.

http://www.hdvxdv.com/

http://www.squared5.com/

Final Cut Pro is the only NLE for mac that supposedly works with the A1, I believe. May have to try a reinstall of OSX as noted in another thread.

In 60i HD the A1 should work on any apple NLE, your problem is most likely using 24f which only final cut pro supports.

Also note that only version 5.1.2 supports the 24F mode on the A1. I'm not sure about which version of FCP supports the 60i, but my guess would be at least 5.0.

Final Cut Pro And A1 Help Aspap
 

I need help. I guess imovie does not work with the A1. Am I correct?

and

I tried using FCP 5 but it does not give me any options on 1080i24p just 50 and 60. Nothing about 24. I shoot in 24f and I need to edit my footage badly. Is there a FCP Upgrade for free I can get because I just have FCP 5 and just want my HD FOOTAGE TO GO DIRECTLY INTO FCP WITHOUT DOWN CONVERTING IT. I want the same quality and not stretch it out on FCP. But if any one at all knows anything about imovie and why it wont work please help! Its urgent! thanks!

-dean

I have had success using my iMovie with A1 on 30F, but I haven't tried 24F with it. What is the issue? is it just not detecting the camera?
in FCP you want to use the setting for HDV 1080p24 and put it on 'FireWire basic' for capture. I think you may need 5.1.2, but go ahead and try it out...the A1 didnt' show up on the supported device list until that version of FCP.
Unfortunately, FCP 5.1.2 is a 50 dollar cross grade that needs to be mailed in and it takes a few weeks.
Hope you can get it working! - Jim

Dean, as we mentioned in your post in the Mac forum, you will need 5.1.2 if you want to use FCP to capture your hi-def 24F directly from the camera. There's no download that I know of... I filled out the form, mailed them a check and my FCP installation CDs, and within a week or two I received my 5.1.2. They only send you the electronic manuals too, so you don't get re-printed ones for 5.1.2.

My 5.1.2 works great with all the footage the A1 can dish out. I've captured 24F, 30F, and 60i with no problems or rendering issues. Device control works great too.

From what I understand the 1080p24 option doesn't even show up without 5.1.2. You might be able to create your own custom setting, but I'm not sure how that would work.

It's $49 plus tax, offer ends March 19 2007:
http://www.apple.com/universal/crossgrade/

You'll need this form:
http://images.apple.com/universal/cr...Crossgrade.pdf

Sorry, can't help you with iMovie