Quad or 8 core Mac Pro?
 

Hey everybody,

I am going to buy the new Mac Pro, but I am still in doubt about which one to get. I read a lot of articles about both machines and I know both of them are sweet, but what is your opinion about it?

I shoot with the HVX200 and I am doing a lot more HD editing nowadays. Next to that I need a lot of rendering for Compressor, Color and the Neat Video plug-in. My old Macbook Pro is just not really up for that. Is the 8 core still overdone, will the quad core do fine or looking to the future it's better to go for the 8-core?

Cheers
Niels

I suggest you start here.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/high-defi...vs-8-core.html

Thanks Andy! I did the search but didn't see this one...

EFI-x option
 

You may want to think about the efi-x system instead of a macpro. Its a quad core for half the price.

Thanks for that James, but I have to narrow it down to these two options because I am flip flopping between these two for the last two weeks now and another option won't get me to sleep at all anymore ;)

I narrowed it down to 2.66 Quad, 6 GB memory, 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s, ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB, Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse, AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n for € 2.769,00

or

or the standard 8-core, with ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB, Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse, AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n for € 3.244,00

Will the quad be more suited for gamers then for video editers? I work on Final Cut Studio 2.

My workflow is mostly this:
I edit a project in FCP 6 and run it through compressor, while compressor is running I make the DVD-menu in DVD Studio Pro and make the DVD-cover in Photoshop.

What about this workflow, will I benefit from a 8-core but with a slower 2.26GHz?

Get the 8 core--for your use of compressor alone, it will be worth it.
4-core versus 8-core Nehalem Mac Pro

I will Mike. I narrowed it down to 1 now :) Especially with the future in mind (Snow Leopard, FC Studio 3 etc.).

I'll buy the 2.26 8-core with 6GB Ram (minimum) and get some 3rd Party Ram (prob. up to about 16GB). Next to that the ATI 4870 upgrade, wireless mouse, AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n and AppleCare...

For the same reasons (SL & FCS3 hopefully soonish) I'm going for a pretty similar option - 8 core Nehalem 2.66Ghz with 12GB RAM (to start with) with 4 x 1 TB drives, ATI 4870, Airport and 3 year Applecare. Just need to find some time to order it (and that will almost certainly not be from the UK Apple store but from a well known UK Apple stockist - assuming they give me a good discount like the last time I spent a small fortune with them).

Wow Andy, that's a pretty nice setup, for this moment a little bit to much bucks for me to get. Hope to nail down some nice jobs that pay well in the near future so I can upgrade the whole thing.

Is it possible to upgrade the processor in the future or or would that always be a case of a to expensive part of the machine to replace?

Nothings "impossible" but, as you already suspect, it just would not be worth doing (IMHO).

Everything else on the new Mac Pro 2009 is very easy to add/upgrade (especially so on the 09 MBs) except the processor - which is why I'm taking a hit and going for a moderately fast 8 core 2.66Ghz Nehalem MB rather than sticking with the 2.33. The 8 core 2.93 is just too stupidly expensive for me - I'd rather a 8 core 2.66 and load it with RAM and extra hard drives etc. for the same money hit. By "moderately fast", it's all relative - this should be one heck of a speed machine! As stated above my 8 core (16 virtual) decision is for Snow Leopard and FCS3 multicore "flexibility" that I'm hoping will appear very soon (but as we all know, things don't necessarily work out as you expect with computer developments - just as with everything else!). It will drive 2 existing/pretty new Dell 2408WFP screens (one via the DVI adapter Apple now force you to need, another stupid concept by Apple IMHO... but thankfully it's not a very expensive addition).

I hope to have this as my main work horse (for mostly corporate video work as my business is taking off) for at least the next 3 years, being supplemented by my existing 2008 15 inch MBP (with 2TB GRAID3 Raid 0 setup and numerous external 1TB FW800 drives for back-ups) and no doubt an external raid set-up for the Mac Pro too in the future, if required as well as a PC running Vegas. Should just about cover it!

Expect the price of "my MB spec" to drop significantly or, more likely it to get a processor speed spec boost, soon after I actually order it!!!! (another certainty in life!)

If I take the 8 GB memory on the apple site and the another 8 GB-kit at a 3rd party it's going to cost me less then getting the 8-core with 6 GB and a 16 GB-kit. But isn't it a problem to run this 8GB kit with the 8Gb that comes from Apple, cause I remember that I've read something about it somewhere?

I have last year's model Mac Pro that I ordered with minimum 2GB Apple memory & ordered an extra 8GB from Crucial saving many hundreds of Euros. When I fitted the new memory I saw that the Apple memory was in fact manufactured by Crucial & labelled as such. Apple don't make memory they just buy good quality memory from Crucial or one or 2 other suppliers & evidently don't even stick their own Apple label on it.

BTW The memory that I bought six months ago now costs only about 60% of the price that I paid.

If you ask me...you need to approach this has a good 5-7 year investment...perhaps you may not need all the 8 cores now, but later on I am sure there will be softwares and video technology which would be benefit from all this processing power...If i were you i'd go ahead and get the dual quad core processors with the 6Gb of RAM that comes standard with the new Mac Pros...In addition, I am sure the new final cut studio 3 would be utilizing this processing power...

BTW..i have a better chance of seeing God twice instead of predicting when in the world is Apple releasing Final Cut Studio 3 with Blu-Ray Support =)

Well I made my decision, finally. I can get a good night rest now!

Like you said Akbani, I am seeing this as a investment for a lot of years, so I decided to go with the 2.66 Ghz 8-core with 8 GB of ram and fill that up with a 8 GB-kit of a third party (can somebody confirm that it is no problem combining those?).

Next to that the ATI 4870 upgrade, wireless mouse, 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s, AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n and Apple Care Protection.

It will be more then 5000 euro's but I'll be done for a couple of years and I really need to upgrade my system.

Niels, I am glad that you opted for the dual processor as that is what I personally would have done. In fact it is exactly what I did when I ordered myself the previous model Mac Pro.

You can't go wrong ordering RAM from Crucial as they guarantee compatibility. I just checked on their web site & 'Wow!' those 4GB memory sticks are really expensive. 10x the price of the 2GB sticks! Buying 4x2GB sticks from Crucial will still save over 200 Euros so is worth doing.

BTW It's very easy to add disk drives on the Mac Pro. You just screw a S-ATA drive in one of the three empty disk carriers. You can buy 2TB disks now so you will have plenty of scope for expansion.

Yep seconded! Wise decision Niels. I've just landed another big UK wide corporate video job today so I'm hoping to push the button (finally) on buying my Mac Pro tomorrow.

:-)

Thanks guys, makes me feel even more comfortable with my decision. Congrats on landing the new job Andy! I am pulling the trigger tomorrow as well, can't we get a big discount if we order at the same time Andy ;)

When you order the 8-core, have Apple include 8Gb of Ram in 2x4 combination - ie, in four slots. Its an extra $90 - that was my price 2 weeks ago. Then you can easily add more 2Gb in the remaining four slots to go to 16Gb Ram. This is the most economical way to use all the slots right now - without taking a mortgage out to buy 4Gb modules.
Otherwise you will have to toss out the default ram and replace with 6 or 8Gb modules.

There appears to be a bit of a debate going on as to whether or not it's best to fill only THREE slots of the memory bank (not all 4) with RAM with these new triple channel Nehalem Mac Pros - see some of the links I provided earlier on this forum, such as this one.

Pro Apps on Nehalem Mac Pro - Cores? Memory?

Hey Jon,

I did all ready :) I ordered the 8-core with 8 GB (4 x 2GB) of memory and will order the other 8 GB with a 3rd party when I have the monster machine.

I'll follow that thread Andy, thanks!

OK, I finally (!) pushed the button on this as I need the extra capability as my corporate video business is getting pretty busy! The exact spec I ordered is below. Hopefully this baby will arrive sometime next week and I'll let you know how I get on!

Apple Mac Pro 2 x 2.66Ghz Nehalem (i.e. 8 Core)
12GB Ram (6 x 2GB)
1TB System Drive and 3 further 1TB drives (i.e. to fill all 4 bays)
ATI Radeon HD 4870 Graphics Card
One Superdrive
Wired Apple Mighty Mouse
Wired Standard UK Keyboard
Airport Extreme WiFi (n)
iWork 09
Mini Display Port to DVI Adapter
3 Year Applecare Protection

Do you mind me asking how much all that set you back? I'm in the market for a new Mac Pro but not sure I want to go for the whole enchilada at this point.

Well if you configure this spec on the Apple UK website it will (at 19th May 2009) cost just over 5,128 quid (well, just two pence over....) BUT I bought it from a very well know UK Apple reseller (I won't name them as they are not a DVinfo sponsor) and I paid considerably less than that (but still a heck of a lot!!!!)

I am receiving mine monday. I am on a holiday now, but I can't wait till I get home and install the whole thing :)

I paid around 5000 euro's for it, without a discount, but it will pay back very soon as my workflow will be a lot faster.

Thanks Andy and Niels. I don't know why I didn't notice where you were from before I asked. I don't know how that converts into US dollars right now.

Yesterday, the pound jumped more than one and a half cents to hit $1.5476 (US), its highest level since mid-December. It rose against the euro to 1.1410 euros. Any way you look at it...it's a lot of money! But I'm with Niels on this - with the work piling in, it will pay me back very soon - hopefully! :-)

(disclaimer - nothing in life is certain!)

Mac Pro 8 Core 2.66Ghz Nehalem - First Impressions
 

Well it arrived at lunchtime....so, with my luck, you can expect Apple to update the Mac Pro specs with a significant bump any day now (!) ;-)

Apart from the well documented "fan burst" on switch-on it's whisper quiet. Beautifully built too - this one's assembled in Ireland. Spent the afternoon updating to the latest OSX version 10.5.7 etc. etc. and all that went perfectly.

The 20 Quid Apple mini-Display Port to DVI conversion connector works perfectly with the ATI 4870 HD Graphics card and one of my Dell 2408WFP monitors (but I'm awaiting a longer DVI cable to be able to get my second Dell 2408WFP connected). As luck would have it, the spare DVI cable I have won't reach the position I currently have the Mac Pro in! I've now got a 5M one on rush order from Amazon, you'll be unsurprised to hear!

I've a meeting with a client in the pub in an hour or so to review an edit (a nice way to do business!) but after that I'll start loading FCS2 on it....it's going to be a very long night I think. I've a big new edit to get going so then I can start to put this beauty through it's paces and see what she's really made of!

I have mine for a few days now, and could use it within a few hours like I have been working on it my entire life. It's a dream machine, very quiet (the ''fan burst'' first scared me a bit, but after that it's very quiet) and beautiful from the outside and inside (where have I heard that before).

Mine was build in Ireland as well, so I drunk a nice big pint when I got it.

I was very surprised, after I connected it with the firewire cable and transferred the old files from the Macbook Pro on it, that all the programs came with it too. I did some research and thought that I had to install FCS2 manually, like you were talking about Andy. But The Mac Pro was, after 1,5 hour or so, an exact copy of my old work station. With some programs you have to fill in the serial number, but to me it was a pleasant surprise. It all runs smoothly and fast!

I am a very happy man

Saludos,
I am in the marlet for MacPro as well. Is there anyting you recommend I should do, anything you wish you had done instead or your system is ideal?

Well, I am still waiting for my 8 Gig Ram from a 3rd party, I would probably have ordered it from Apple even though it's more expensive. I am waiting for a month now and got a tracking number for UPS which doesn't work!

Otherwise, I am very happy with the machine. At one point I couldn't log in, because of a major error in the update of the software (don't update with filevault running!!!). I am not so happy with Apple in general lately, because next to that I had my Macbook Pro for repair and I got it back more broken then ever. It had a big dent and couldn't close anymore.

But the machine is great and makes working with video editing so much nicer and faster. I never regretted it for a second.

Cheers

Thanks for the reply Niels.
Would you be willing to tell us who is your RAM dealer so we know not to order from them.
I have a MAcBookPro/FCP2 configuration as well, rendering, compression and encoding time are a bummer and it sounds like the laptop could just blow up sometimes from so much strain, thus the apparent need for the MacPro. How is it for instance, what it takes me about 5hrs of compression from ProRes to Mpeg2 on the laptop, what would say it takes on your MP?
Sorry to hear Apple has been so lame, it seems that the bigger the company the lesser the service.
Take care.

Hey Erick,

I wanna wait a little longer before I put them on the black list. I've send them an email and hope for a responds that will get me further with the whole deal. If I don't hear from them and don't have the RAM next week, I'll let you guys know.

My MacBook Pro (they hurt my baby :( is one of the first generations and as you described compression is a bummer. I would say it's at least 10 times as fast, so saving a lot of time. I can only imagine it will be even more with Snow Leopard. The bigger thing for me is the rendering. I hate it when I am working on a project and it takes long for rendering the effects in it. It takes me out of my workflow.

If this sounds familiar to you, I wouldn't hesitate for a second and buy the new machine.

Cheers

I always order RAM direct from Crucial. They guarantee it to work on your particular machine & deliver very quickly to me here in France shipping from the UK. Their prices are among the cheapest. When I bought my Mac Pro (2008 model) I ordered the RAM from Crucial on the same day as the system from Apple & the memory arrived before the workstation. When I opened up the Mac to upgrade the memory I found that the factory installed RAM was Crucial too. It didn't even have a special Apple sticker to double the price.

Of course if you may have ordered from Crucial as I seem to recall that they ship by UPS. In which case chase them up as they are normally exceptionally good. Maybe the problem is with UPS?

Hey Nigel,

No it's not Crucial, well I guess it's not so bad to say the name. The company I've ordered from is transintl.com. I ordered the 8GB Kit (4x2GB) DDR3 1066MHz (PC8500) ECC SDRAM: for $142.00

Maybe it is UPS, I've send them an email, but no responds yet. I'll give them a call monday about what's going on.

I've checked the Crucial site and did the system check. It recognized the MacPro as a Mac Pro (4-core Xeon 3500 Series) 3rd Gen, but it is a 8-core 2,66 Ghz. Don't know how that happened. They are more expensive, but maybe I'll go to them next time.

In response to the question from Erick along the lines of , "anything I'd wished I'd done" regarding the purchase spec of my Mac Pro, well, no not really. It's really quiet with the 4870 card (nothing I've heard so far has been louder than a very low level background purr), and it's super fast at rendering - makes my MBP seem painfully slow at that. Everything just works and works very well (I'm on very latest software updates etc. and did a completely fresh install of FCS2 etc.).

Works really nicely with my two Dell 2408WFP monitors, one via DVI, one via the Apple DVI/mini display port adapter.

I'm definitely pleased I went this route and not the super glossy and more expensive yet limited connectivity Apple Cinema Display route...and all the issues around connecting two of those to a 2009 Mac Pro that seems to get posted on the Apple forums. As I understand it, you can't connect 2 of the new ACD's at the moment (as the adapter that would be needed by the second one does not yet exist). It's really great to have all the space that two 24 inch displays give you to edit away on and weird that Apple Fan Boys can't do this by buying two new ACDs for their 2009 Mac Pros!

It really depends on what you are thinking of doing with a Mac Pro as to the spec you need. But don't forget, it's so easy to upgrade practically anything (except the processor speed or number of cores) anyway so you could always build it up to your desired spec over time if needed.

I'm currently working on an approx. 12 minute corporate video project (1080p 25fps XDCAM EX3 clips, not in ProRes format but full uncompressed...just the way I like to do things, for now) and I've about 12 audio tracks and about 7 video tracks and it's well fast enough for what I want whilst editing. Sure, if you scroll around fast in the FCP timeline it can take a few seconds (2-3) for all the thumbnails and audio peaks to refresh on screen, as I would expect, as the drives (again super quiet) are all "just" 1TB WD Blacks (7,200rpm), not Velociraptors or super-fast SAS.

I'm just using a software Raid 0 on the 3rd and 4th drives and occasionally a external 2TB GRAID-3 that I'm also using, connected by mere FW800 to this Mac Pro (or my MBP). I did not like the sound (from reading around) of the Apple Raid card so held onto my money for a future external multi-disc RAID 0 enclosure linked via an eSATA card, should I ever really need it. Many recommendations on this forum and elsewhere as to which ones work best. Right now, that's a luxury I don't need nor can really afford.

One other comment, I ditched the wired 1 button Apple Mighty Mouse almost immediately and use a pretty typical (i.e normal Microsoft 2 button wireless mouse) as I personally find this much quicker to use. I'm really not the type that has to have the Apple name on everything in my editing bay, it's what works best regarding functionality that counts for me.

So far, this Mac Pro looks like a great machine and very pleased I took the cost hit of it's purchase for my business! Without doubt, it's a stunning computer (albeit one with an unbelievably noisy superdrive as is well documented...why o why have they still not sorted that out!).

Hey Andy,

Maybe you know the answer to this problem. So as you know I've the Mac Pro 8-core 2,66 Ghz. In QMaster I've made this setup:
- Quickcluster with services
- Enabled the share and manage for compressor
- Options for selected services is 4 Instances
- Quickcluster name is Niels's Virtual Cluster

But if I use Compressor and select the virtual cluster to use every core it doesn't work. What am I doing wrong here?

Cheers

I knew the answer all ready, but somehow I didn't do it the right way. I've send the project directly to compressor, but I had to make a Quicktime Movie of it and then export it into Compressor :)

I knew the answer all ready, but somehow I didn't do it the right way. I've send the project directly to compressor, but I had to make a Quicktime Movie of it and then export it into Compressor :)

I knew the answer all ready, but somehow I didn't do it the right way. I've send the project directly to compressor, but I had to make a Quicktime Movie of it and then export it into Compressor :)