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-   -   Anyone Successfully Capture 720p24? How? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/final-cut-suite/82189-anyone-successfully-capture-720p24-how.html)

Sharon Pieczenik December 20th, 2006 02:59 PM

Anyone Successfully Capture 720p24? How?
 
Hi,

I have been trying to get a clear answer on this. I have found on these forums that there are people like me who are having clips cut into bits and media lost when they try and capture 24p. I have tried using the AIC codec and it doesn't seem to work? Unless I am setting something up wrong.

I am using final cut 5.1.2
I am trying to capture from the JVC BR-HD50 (bought after needed firmware update so it is latest model)
Shot on JVC GY-HD110U in 720p 24fps
Using firewire 23.98 hdv to get info from deck to computer (found this setting from another thread)

Is this a problem I have to wait for Apple to fix? Or is there a fix that does not involve making a .m2t file?

Thanks,
Sharon

Matthew Groff December 20th, 2006 03:04 PM

I can only comment on capturing from JVC HD100, but I have had no problems capturing 24p material from the camera itself with FCP. I too am running 5.1.2.

I just used the easy setup for 24p HDV and that was that.

mg

Warren Shultz December 20th, 2006 04:18 PM

I've had this problem just this week with 30 fps as well so it apparently isn't limited to 24P. I have FCP set to "create new clips" with TC change but it breaks up contiguous clips repeatedly.

Sharon Pieczenik December 20th, 2006 04:27 PM

I have turned off any abort boxes and I have turned off making clips. Still this doesn't seem to work. I have read every thread that pertaining to this problem...and I am still confused as to the fact whether or not this is my fault or something Apple has to fix. Has anyone contacted Apple?

Chris Rentzel December 20th, 2006 05:08 PM

Hi,

Here is a simple check list that I copied and pasted from Carl Hicks (JVC Rep) when I asked him the same thing.




Final Cut Pro works perfectly with the GY-HD110U, as long as these things are true:

1. You are using version FCP 5.1.2

2. You are using the right "Easy Setup" . Choose the HDV720/P30 or HDV720/P24 Easy Set-up

3. The fire wire port is working on the camera and on the MAC. Firewire ports are fragile, and can be blown out if the cable is plugged in or unplugged with the camera or MAC power on, or by flipping the "DV/HDV" switch with the power on.

4. The fire wire cable is good

5. Does your MAC recognize the camera when it connected? If not, then you may have a bad firewire port on the camera or the MAC.

6. Are you pushing the button on the camera to put it into the VTR mode?


If that doesn't work, could be you're using an inferior tape.

Chris

Andrew Young December 20th, 2006 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharon Pieczenik
I have found on these forums that there are people like me who are having clips cut into bits and media lost when they try and capture 24p.

Hi Sharon,

If this is happeneing to you you should contact JVC tech support and send them your tape so they can verify. I was not aware of this happening since the firmware upgrade last winter. My captures usually go fine.

Carl Hicks December 20th, 2006 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rentzel
Hi,

Here is a simple check list that I copied and pasted from Carl Hicks (JVC Rep) when I asked him the same thing.




Final Cut Pro works perfectly with the GY-HD110U, as long as these things are true:

1. You are using version FCP 5.1.2

2. You are using the right "Easy Setup" . Choose the HDV720/P30 or HDV720/P24 Easy Set-up

3. The fire wire port is working on the camera and on the MAC. Firewire ports are fragile, and can be blown out if the cable is plugged in or unplugged with the camera or MAC power on, or by flipping the "DV/HDV" switch with the power on.

4. The fire wire cable is good

5. Does your MAC recognize the camera when it connected? If not, then you may have a bad firewire port on the camera or the MAC.

6. Are you pushing the button on the camera to put it into the VTR mode?


If that doesn't work, could be you're using an inferior tape.

Chris

Chris is on the right track here regarding tape. The latest FCP version will sometimes start a new clip when a tape drop-out is encountered, even a very minor one that is not noticeable to the eye. So, it's very important that you use high-quality tape, and you keep your tape transport clean. We recommend the JVC MDV63PROHD tape. Users of this tape consistantly report very reliable and clean recordings with this tape.

Jonathan Nelson December 21st, 2006 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks
Chris is on the right track here regarding tape. The latest FCP version will sometimes start a new clip when a tape drop-out is encountered, even a very minor one that is not noticeable to the eye. So, it's very important that you use high-quality tape, and you keep your tape transport clean. We recommend the JVC MDV63PROHD tape. Users of this tape consistantly report very reliable and clean recordings with this tape.

I use those tapes and fcp still breaks each capture into multiple clips with missing gaps that have to be filled. I had one tape that was broken up into 16 different clips. I have used a veriety of methods to reduce this and I have had no luck so far.

It could still be a tape issue but in my experiences, the JVC MDV63PROHD tape does nothing to help the problem.

I think it should also be noted that these gaps rarely happen at the same spot on re capture. If these were small tape drops outs then I would expect them to appear at the same spots. That is just my assumption.

What is odd, fcp usually captures the entire clip if it was shot in sd. Because of this issue, I have been shooting all of my events in sd and custom jobs in hd. I would much rather shoot and edit everything in hd but the effort and mess of recapturing filler to join each clip is just too time consuming.

Paul Jefferies December 21st, 2006 06:51 AM

I was digitising recently into FCP and my refrigerator turned itself on next door in the kitchen. This generated a new clip! (either that or the computer just happened to create a new clp in the middle of the shot right at the moment the fridge turned on....). So maybe the system is incredibly sensitive to little things like changes in voltages etc. and as a safety measure always starts a new clip?

Carl Hicks December 21st, 2006 07:56 AM

Quote:


What is odd, fcp usually captures the entire clip if it was shot in sd. Because of this issue, I have been shooting all of my events in sd and custom jobs in hd. I would much rather shoot and edit everything in hd but the effort and mess of recapturing filler to join each clip is just too time consuming.
This is understandable. The video signal and time code in SD mode is entirely different than in the HDV mode. This clip breakage issue is only relevent to the HD mode. In the HDV mode, if FCP sees even a very small loss of data, it perceives this as the start of a new shot, so it forms a new clip. Apple is aware of this issue, aand they are working on a solution to make FCP less sensitive to this issue.

Paolo Ciccone December 21st, 2006 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks
Apple is aware of this issue, aand they are working on a solution to make FCP less sensitive to this issue.

Makes sense. For "2nd Unit" we usually run full tapes in one run to capure the whole interview. It's impossible to digitize the tapes with FCP (24fps.). They break in multiple segments and we use 3 cameras, this prevents me from using FCP's muticlip feature.
I changed my workflow to use HDVSCap + MPEG Streamclip and there is no problem with that. The whole tape is ingested without loss of data or timecode breaks. Apparently it's an issue wirth FCP.

Mark Silva December 21st, 2006 11:27 AM

Does this mean that fcp 5.1.2 cannot properly batch capture 24p hdv?

Justin Ferar December 21st, 2006 11:56 AM

I've been under the impression that digitizing analog or HDMI out of the H50U via Decklink or Kona solves this problem. I'm buidling my HD suite and have been looking hard at the Decklink Studio which boasts HDMI and component analog inputs.

Can anyone confirm that passing firewire will solve the file problem?

Paolo Ciccone December 21st, 2006 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Silva
Does this mean that fcp 5.1.2 cannot properly batch capture 24p hdv?

That's been my experience. The software does it but it breaks to a new clip every time your breath.

Carlos San Roman December 26th, 2006 07:57 PM

This is real disappointing. For as long as Apple made us wait for the update you think they could have got it right. I shot my daughters hockey game on Saturday (24p) and when I went to capture it today, FCP created a new clip every time the camera was restarted (I stopped shooting when play was stopped). I wouldn’t mind so much about the segmented new clips but the fact that it cuts out the first seven seconds of each clip really blows. You lose so much of the flow of the game. JVC should really put the screws to Apple and make them fix this problem. It cut a 40 minute game into 50 clips. Divide that by 7 seconds of lost tape, I lost almost 6 minutes of the game!

Steve Oakley December 27th, 2006 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos San Roman
This is real disappointing. For as long as Apple made us wait for the update you think they could have got it right. I shot my daughters hockey game on Saturday (24p) and when I went to capture it today, FCP created a new clip every time the camera was restarted (I stopped shooting when play was stopped). I wouldn’t mind so much about the segmented new clips but the fact that it cuts out the first seven seconds of each clip really blows. You lose so much of the flow of the game. JVC should really put the screws to Apple and make them fix this problem. It cut a 40 minute game into 50 clips. Divide that by 7 seconds of lost tape, I lost almost 6 minutes of the game!

FCP is set by default to make a new clip everytime you start/stop. the bug is that even if you turn it off, it does it anyway. that said, why on earth would you be constantly starting and stopping that much for a sports event ? with a 1hr tape load, you should not stop tape unless its the normal breaks for quarters. this constant starting and stopping almost guarantees missing something.

For things where starting and stopping is not a problem, I got into the habit a very long time ago shooting with betaSP to start rolling a good 5 -10 secs before anything happened. its just plain good shooting to work that way. in the betaSP days you needed to be sure to have 5 secs for preroll, especially if you where in free run TC. I see shooting the HD100 no differently, and always roll at least 10secs. I usually start rolling while bringing the camera up to my eye or just roughing in the framing so its not big deal, just a habit you have to learn to get into. given how cheap tape is, no reason not to.

what every one is complaining about is that during single long takes, FCP is breaking shots up. thats teh real problem. I've got 20-30 minute long takes from interviews and FCP has been messing up, in 30P. I'm finding its CPU dependent - slow machines have problems.


Steve Oakley

Carlos San Roman December 27th, 2006 02:16 AM

Steve,

I won’t argue with you that one should keep the camera rolling when shooting a sporting event, but my daughter is only 7 and she plays on a “Mite team”. They take longer getting everyone into position then they actually play the game! Which is the primary reason for starting and stopping. And while I did pre-roll prior to the puck being dropped, FCP still seams to arbitrarily decide on its own what and where it wants to capture, including cutting up longer clips as you stated. Don’t get me wrong I love Apple and my JVC, but when I think of the amount of money that I spent upgrading from my not so old system to my current HD system, it drives me nuts! When you consider camera, deck, computer, software, HD monitors, etc…, you’re looking at $20k. If people bought a new car for that much money and it worked half the time, they would be pounding the doors of their dealers demanding refunds or a complete recall. I keep looking at my FCP box, “native support for virtually any format” and, “edit 24p natively” and I keep thinking that wasn’t even true at the time I bought the upgrade. Lets face it they lied and they’ve been playing catch-up ever since!

I know it’s new technology, but it just shouldn’t be this hard…and I guess that’s why I’m disappointed.

Carlos

Jack Walker December 27th, 2006 03:44 AM

Out of curiosity,

Does the hard drive option with for the JVC camera give you 10 sec (or so) preroll recording?

I use DVRack and this does, though obviously is a bit more of a setup problem what with the computer tagging along at all.

However, by chance does the JVC hard drive give you this option? Then you could start and stop the camera and not miss anything (since you will be getting 10 seconds of recording from before you press the record button).

Carl Hicks December 27th, 2006 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker
Out of curiosity,

Does the hard drive option with for the JVC camera give you 10 sec (or so) preroll recording?

I use DVRack and this does, though obviously is a bit more of a setup problem what with the computer tagging along at all.

However, by chance does the JVC hard drive give you this option? Then you could start and stop the camera and not miss anything (since you will be getting 10 seconds of recording from before you press the record button).

The DR-HD100 does have a retro-loop mode that will give you a pre-settable amount of extra pre-recorded material at the beginning of each shot.

Sergio Barbosa December 27th, 2006 09:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi!
The best you ccan get from FCP right now, is losing 1 second on the beggining and the end of each clip (much better than 7, yet...).
You can do that by changing the the pre and post roll time to 1 sec, on "device control preset" - check out the attached screen grab. It's for 720p25, bu I suppose it works for 24p too.

Mark Silva December 27th, 2006 11:20 AM

Thanks for the tip Sergio!

Sergio Barbosa December 27th, 2006 01:18 PM

You're welcome... Just sharing what I've been learning from these forums!


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