Can my Powerbook handle HDV? HV20 better than DVC30? at DVinfo.net

Nelson Cole · March 30th, 2007, 12:24 PM

I have a 15" 1.5 GHz G4 Powerbook with 1.25 GB of RAM and Final Cut Express 3.5. For storage I use two 150 GB external hard drives, one Firewire 800 and the other USB 2.0. My camera is a Panasonic AG-DVC30.

The DVC30's footage is okay, sometimes quite nice, but I'd like to try HDV, especially the HV20's 24p, which I once saw on a Panasonic DVX-100 and it made my jaw drop. I'd also like something a bit lighter. The DVC-30 quite hefty to carry around sometimes. Certainly can't take it hiking.

Would my Powerbook handle HDV? Would the HV20 be worth selling my DVC30 for? The footage I've seen is certainly impressive.

Robert Hicks · March 30th, 2007, 12:35 PM

Nelson,

I've not tried to edit anything but....

My 1.67 G4 PB w/ 2 gigs can't play most of the transport streams samples that have been posted here without serious jitters or being jerky to the point of the videos being unwatchable.
I'll be upgrading to a Macbook Pro after Apple's NAB conference in a couple of weeks.

My suggestion is to download some of the samples posted on dvinfo and see how your machine handles them. Hopefully you will have better luck than I have with playback.

Robert

Nelson Cole · March 30th, 2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Hicks

My 1.67 G4 PB w/ 2 gigs can't play most of the transport streams samples that have been posted here without serious jitters or being jerky to the point of the videos being unwatchable.
I'll be upgrading to a Macbook Pro after Apple's NAB conference in a couple of weeks.

Robert

I appreciate the information, Robert.

I've downloaded several of the clips here and my Powerbook also stutters badly, so thanks for letting me know that this isn't a good sign. Also thanks for the heads-up on the NAB. I might just upgrade, too.

Pieter Jongerius · March 30th, 2007, 01:30 PM

Hi Nelson,

I do some occasional editing on an older Dell notebook, a 1.7GHz celeron model. It plays the HDV streams flawlessly in a standalone player, but my NLE somehow uses more resources (less hard/software accelleration) and editing is virtually impossible.

However, you can render the HDV(MPEG2 clips) to an intermediate codec that is easier to decode real time, but uses more disk space. I think I use the cineform codec.
So it likely that, at the cost of some workflow and disk space, you can still use your trusty old hardware :)

Paulo Teixeira · March 30th, 2007, 01:37 PM

It’s a good thing some of you are holding off on getting an Apple until the NAB because they did announce a MacBook Pro during last years NAB.

Nelson Cole · March 30th, 2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieter Jongerius

my NLE somehow uses more resources (less hard/software accelleration) and editing is virtually impossible.

However, you can render the HDV(MPEG2 clips) to an intermediate codec that is easier to decode real time, but uses more disk space. I think I use the cineform codec. So it likely that, at the cost of some workflow and disk space, you can still use your trusty old hardware :)

Thanks, Pieter. I should have mentioned that I have Final Cut Express HD. Maybe this would handle the clips better, even though I don't have the best processor?

I'll have to read up about codecs. Kind of a newbie here. As it is now, I'm getting more pinwheels than I'd like while the Powerbook crunches away. What HDV would do to it makes me nervous.

Pieter Jongerius · March 30th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson Cole

...Final Cut Express HD. Maybe this would handle the clips better, even though I don't have the best processor?.

I doubt it... real time HD MPEG2 decoding is tough. That's why pre-rendering to an easier to decode format might work for you.

I also think Robert is right:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Hicks

...My suggestion is to download some of the samples posted on dvinfo and see how your machine handles them.

Plz tell us how it works out :)

Nelson Cole · March 30th, 2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieter Jongerius

Plz tell us how it works out :)

I downloaded this .mov clip:

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/more%2060i.mov

It played pretty well in Firefox. It hitched a little. The cat at the beginning was clear enough to make me take the Lord's name in vain, I must confess. It seemed I could reach out and pat the thing. Quite stunning.

But did you mean that I should find some raw, uncompressed footage and try to import it into Final Cut Express HD to see if my system could handle it? If so, does anyone know where I could find some of this footage?

Pieter Jongerius · April 4th, 2007, 01:32 PM

Hi Nelson,

(been away a few days, don't know whether you're still onto this)

as a matter of fact, I (we) meant: try to get hold of some unedited M2T files (straight off the camera, you should be able to find some around here), render ('translate') them to the cineform codec using Final Cut Express (I don't know that package so can't help you there), and try to put some of those resulting clips on a timeline. Then see what happens. It wil run much better than with the original M2T clips.

So no, cineform is not raw, but still somewhat compressed, it holds a good balance between CPU-and-hard-drive-space-friendlyness...

Nelson Cole · April 4th, 2007, 11:56 PM

Hi Pieter,

I found some .mt2 files but can't figure out how to open them with Final Cut Express. However, I can open them with the VLC Media Player. Is this what you mean?

The clip played full screen okay on my Powerbook but did show some jerkiness. I'll have to do some more research into how to open them (import?) them into FCE and then put them into a time line.

To the woodshed I go...

Pieter Jongerius · April 5th, 2007, 02:30 PM

Hi Nelson,

those are certainly the files I mean, but if you can't open them with FCE I can't help you... I have no knowledge of that package whatsover (or hardly any knowlegde of operating one of those quite nice fruity computers, sorry)

What i'd try 1st to get them to open: rename them to another extension like MP2, MPG, MPEG or something like that. But better ask someone else. And since we've moved to NLE/Mac, I'm off :))

Liam Hall · April 5th, 2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson Cole

I have a 15" 1.5 GHz G4 Powerbook with 1.25 GB of RAM and Final Cut Express 3.5. For storage I use two 150 GB external hard drives, one Firewire 800 and the other USB 2.0. My camera is a Panasonic AG-DVC30.

The DVC30's footage is okay, sometimes quite nice, but I'd like to try HDV, especially the HV20's 24p, which I once saw on a Panasonic DVX-100 and it made my jaw drop. I'd also like something a bit lighter. The DVC-30 quite hefty to carry around sometimes. Certainly can't take it hiking.

Would my Powerbook handle HDV? Would the HV20 be worth selling my DVC30 for? The footage I've seen is certainly impressive.

Yes, your powerbook can handle HDV. No problem. I have a 15" powerbook and a 17" that blast through HDV and DVCPROHD and all codecs in between.

Andrew Kimery · April 5th, 2007, 04:28 PM

Nelson,

FCE can't edit HDV natively like FCP can. FCE can only edit HDV if it's transcoded into AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) first.

-A

Bill Davis · April 5th, 2007, 09:39 PM

Also remember that in terms of playback data rate, HDV is virtually identical to DV. If your system plays DV, it will play HDV.

Editing might be another story since there's more on the fly encoding/decoding going on - but for playback, they're essentially the same.

Michel Andrieu · April 6th, 2007, 08:40 AM

Nelson I am editing HDV (SonyA1) with my powerbook 1.25 mgh and 3 external harddrives (from 120 to 320 gig) without any problem using FCP 5.
Michel

March 30th, 2007, 12:24 PM	#1
Nelson Cole Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 70	Can my Powerbook handle HDV? HV20 better than DVC30? I have a 15" 1.5 GHz G4 Powerbook with 1.25 GB of RAM and Final Cut Express 3.5. For storage I use two 150 GB external hard drives, one Firewire 800 and the other USB 2.0. My camera is a Panasonic AG-DVC30. The DVC30's footage is okay, sometimes quite nice, but I'd like to try HDV, especially the HV20's 24p, which I once saw on a Panasonic DVX-100 and it made my jaw drop. I'd also like something a bit lighter. The DVC-30 quite hefty to carry around sometimes. Certainly can't take it hiking. Would my Powerbook handle HDV? Would the HV20 be worth selling my DVC30 for? The footage I've seen is certainly impressive.

March 30th, 2007, 01:37 PM	#5
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	It’s a good thing some of you are holding off on getting an Apple until the NAB because they did announce a MacBook Pro during last years NAB. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

April 6th, 2007, 08:40 AM	#15
Michel Andrieu Tourist Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Paris, France Posts: 2	No problem to edit HDV with a powerbook Nelson I am editing HDV (SonyA1) with my powerbook 1.25 mgh and 3 external harddrives (from 120 to 320 gig) without any problem using FCP 5. Michel __________________ Mick1635

March 30th, 2007, 12:35 PM	#2
Robert Hicks New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 20	Nelson, I've not tried to edit anything but.... My 1.67 G4 PB w/ 2 gigs can't play most of the transport streams samples that have been posted here without serious jitters or being jerky to the point of the videos being unwatchable. I'll be upgrading to a Macbook Pro after Apple's NAB conference in a couple of weeks. My suggestion is to download some of the samples posted on dvinfo and see how your machine handles them. Hopefully you will have better luck than I have with playback. Robert

March 30th, 2007, 01:30 PM	#4
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Hi Nelson, I do some occasional editing on an older Dell notebook, a 1.7GHz celeron model. It plays the HDV streams flawlessly in a standalone player, but my NLE somehow uses more resources (less hard/software accelleration) and editing is virtually impossible. However, you can render the HDV(MPEG2 clips) to an intermediate codec that is easier to decode real time, but uses more disk space. I think I use the cineform codec. So it likely that, at the cost of some workflow and disk space, you can still use your trusty old hardware :)

April 4th, 2007, 01:32 PM	#9
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Hi Nelson, (been away a few days, don't know whether you're still onto this) as a matter of fact, I (we) meant: try to get hold of some unedited M2T files (straight off the camera, you should be able to find some around here), render ('translate') them to the cineform codec using Final Cut Express (I don't know that package so can't help you there), and try to put some of those resulting clips on a timeline. Then see what happens. It wil run much better than with the original M2T clips. So no, cineform is not raw, but still somewhat compressed, it holds a good balance between CPU-and-hard-drive-space-friendlyness...

April 4th, 2007, 11:56 PM	#10
Nelson Cole Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 70	Hi Pieter, I found some .mt2 files but can't figure out how to open them with Final Cut Express. However, I can open them with the VLC Media Player. Is this what you mean? The clip played full screen okay on my Powerbook but did show some jerkiness. I'll have to do some more research into how to open them (import?) them into FCE and then put them into a time line. To the woodshed I go...

April 5th, 2007, 02:30 PM	#11
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Hi Nelson, those are certainly the files I mean, but if you can't open them with FCE I can't help you... I have no knowledge of that package whatsover (or hardly any knowlegde of operating one of those quite nice fruity computers, sorry) What i'd try 1st to get them to open: rename them to another extension like MP2, MPG, MPEG or something like that. But better ask someone else. And since we've moved to NLE/Mac, I'm off :))

April 5th, 2007, 04:28 PM	#13
Andrew Kimery Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 352	Nelson, FCE can't edit HDV natively like FCP can. FCE can only edit HDV if it's transcoded into AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) first. -A

April 5th, 2007, 09:39 PM	#14
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Also remember that in terms of playback data rate, HDV is virtually identical to DV. If your system plays DV, it will play HDV. Editing might be another story since there's more on the fly encoding/decoding going on - but for playback, they're essentially the same.