should i stay with HDV?? at DVinfo.net

Federico Perale · April 11th, 2010, 05:04 PM

i saw some AMAZING divx footage taken from a FX1, and I asked myself if sony's last CCD camcorders are still the way to go?

I have budget to buy any camcorder up to a PMW ex1r but I am still unsure about CMOS as i HATE IT

this is the shortlist
1) sony fx1 (or z1 ) i believe those are the last CCD ones sony produced. but they're both discontinued so I doubt I can find them new
2) panasonic hmc 150 - this seems to be the only professional camcorder using CCD at present // still few shops i went to seem to regard this highly compared to Sony
3) sony pmw EX1r - a winner in terms of specs BUT very expensive and VERY heavy whereas the first 2 are much lighter and easy to handle....and CMOS...

I shoot primarely 16:9 for DVD (and sometimes bluray), at home (interiors), and i need a good performer with low light...

the problem of (1) versus (2) and (3) is also the use of Mini DV tapes but what I really need is the best picture quality, with the lowest possible noise (now for this reason I am in doubt on the EX1 as i hate hate hate cmos - but maybe the newest exmor CMOS 1/2" are better?)

thanks
Federico

Michael Galvan · April 11th, 2010, 06:37 PM

Well you have that sony, the pana 150, or the canon XL H1A/XH A1S cameras for ccd-based acquisition in your price range.

Best way is for you to test one out in person and see if it satisfies your requirements.

If you want tape and tapeless, you can look at the Z5/Z7 from Sony, but they are CMOS.

Jack Zhang · April 11th, 2010, 07:35 PM

I would get a XH-A1 and a stand-alone CF recorder from Sony or Firestone. Much easier to injest than tape if you want to go the tapeless route.

The XH-A1S has a 6 pin Firewire so it's better handled to not wiggle loose the firewire connection to your computer or your CF recorder.

I'm with you on hating CMOS. I just can't stand skew.

Vito DeFilippo · April 11th, 2010, 07:38 PM

If what you are interested in is low light performance, and best picture: from the list of choices you give, the EX1r is the clear winner. I don't see a problem with CMOS unless you are shooting with a lot of flash photographry or strobe lights around you.

Why do you hate it?

Federico Perale · April 12th, 2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo

If what you are interested in is low light performance, and best picture: from the list of choices you give, the EX1r is the clear winner. I don't see a problem with CMOS unless you are shooting with a lot of flash photographry or strobe lights around you.

Why do you hate it?

The few videos I've seen of CMOS camcorders including the ex1 show a lot of pixelation and noise.
I used a panasonic hdc tm300 with 3 CMOS sensors and absolutely hated the image quality and colours
considering I'm really fond to go tapeless: is there a way to shoot tapeless with say a Sony fx1 using a FireWire harddrive? Is that practical?

Vito DeFilippo · April 12th, 2010, 08:21 AM

Check out this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-pmw-ex1r.html

I don't know what samples you are seeing. All reviews I've read, and samples I've seen indicate that the EX1 image is superior to any HDV camera. I own a Sony Z1 and think it's a great camera, but I can't wait to upgrade now considering what's available and about to come out. The Z1 and FX1 were revolutionary at the time, but that was 5 years ago. Things have changed.

But, still, do what you want...

Federico Perale · April 12th, 2010, 11:10 AM

All videos I see on YouTube and vimeo at low light show quite a lot of noise on the ex1.
Also: isn't it much easier to edit hdv
than avchd?
Are you that much happier with the ex1?
If I mainly need to shoot for DVD Is it worth it over a z1?

Tom Hardwick · April 12th, 2010, 11:57 AM

What's your market Federico? Mine's firmly in Z1 / FX1 territory because of my pricing structure for my wedding couples. I could sell both cameras and buy into the EX1R kit, but I'd need two of them and my brides wouldn't pay me a penny more.

I'd also have to side-step the vari-slo mo of the cake-cutting as the flash banding is appalling (though I haven't seen the EX1 clip browser 'repair' facility). The low light performance would indeed be better as so it should be at the price. It's cameras for markets, and the HMC150 is probably the one for you as long as your computer has the grunt to edit AVCHD files.

tom.

April 11th, 2010, 05:04 PM	#1
Federico Perale Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 410	should i stay with HDV?? i saw some AMAZING divx footage taken from a FX1, and I asked myself if sony's last CCD camcorders are still the way to go? I have budget to buy any camcorder up to a PMW ex1r but I am still unsure about CMOS as i HATE IT this is the shortlist 1) sony fx1 (or z1 ) i believe those are the last CCD ones sony produced. but they're both discontinued so I doubt I can find them new 2) panasonic hmc 150 - this seems to be the only professional camcorder using CCD at present // still few shops i went to seem to regard this highly compared to Sony 3) sony pmw EX1r - a winner in terms of specs BUT very expensive and VERY heavy whereas the first 2 are much lighter and easy to handle....and CMOS... I shoot primarely 16:9 for DVD (and sometimes bluray), at home (interiors), and i need a good performer with low light... the problem of (1) versus (2) and (3) is also the use of Mini DV tapes but what I really need is the best picture quality, with the lowest possible noise (now for this reason I am in doubt on the EX1 as i hate hate hate cmos - but maybe the newest exmor CMOS 1/2" are better?) thanks Federico

April 11th, 2010, 06:37 PM	#2
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Well you have that sony, the pana 150, or the canon XL H1A/XH A1S cameras for ccd-based acquisition in your price range. Best way is for you to test one out in person and see if it satisfies your requirements. If you want tape and tapeless, you can look at the Z5/Z7 from Sony, but they are CMOS. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

April 11th, 2010, 07:38 PM	#4
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	If what you are interested in is low light performance, and best picture: from the list of choices you give, the EX1r is the clear winner. I don't see a problem with CMOS unless you are shooting with a lot of flash photographry or strobe lights around you. Why do you hate it? __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

April 12th, 2010, 08:21 AM	#6
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	Check out this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-pmw-ex1r.html I don't know what samples you are seeing. All reviews I've read, and samples I've seen indicate that the EX1 image is superior to any HDV camera. I own a Sony Z1 and think it's a great camera, but I can't wait to upgrade now considering what's available and about to come out. The Z1 and FX1 were revolutionary at the time, but that was 5 years ago. Things have changed. But, still, do what you want... __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

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April 11th, 2010, 07:35 PM	#3
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	I would get a XH-A1 and a stand-alone CF recorder from Sony or Firestone. Much easier to injest than tape if you want to go the tapeless route. The XH-A1S has a 6 pin Firewire so it's better handled to not wiggle loose the firewire connection to your computer or your CF recorder. I'm with you on hating CMOS. I just can't stand skew.

April 12th, 2010, 11:10 AM	#7
Federico Perale Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 410	All videos I see on YouTube and vimeo at low light show quite a lot of noise on the ex1. Also: isn't it much easier to edit hdv than avchd? Are you that much happier with the ex1? If I mainly need to shoot for DVD Is it worth it over a z1?

April 12th, 2010, 11:57 AM	#8
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	What's your market Federico? Mine's firmly in Z1 / FX1 territory because of my pricing structure for my wedding couples. I could sell both cameras and buy into the EX1R kit, but I'd need two of them and my brides wouldn't pay me a penny more. I'd also have to side-step the vari-slo mo of the cake-cutting as the flash banding is appalling (though I haven't seen the EX1 clip browser 'repair' facility). The low light performance would indeed be better as so it should be at the price. It's cameras for markets, and the HMC150 is probably the one for you as long as your computer has the grunt to edit AVCHD files. tom.