L.A. 4-camera shootout questions

Nate Weaver · January 14th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Wow. I'm bummed.

I worked too hard for too long that day for this test to be discredited. I'm sure soon enough that charts will be posted so people will realize the test was indeed worth paying attention to.

More than my own though were the efforts of Jay Nemeth and Adam Wilt. Jay, by far, worked the hardest that day. I'm sure right now he is shaking his head and telling himself he'll never do this again. I hope I'm wrong on that, though.

There will be a writeup by Adam Wilt eventually. He will be voice without hyperbole.

Chris Hurd · January 14th, 2006, 12:29 AM

I'm not discrediting it, Nate. Not by a long shot. I know you guys worked hard that day. My position is that the results should all be housed under one roof for clarity and ease. So far the best technical presentation of the shootout results, meaning, the most useful write-up has been given by Barry Green at DVX User.

Therefore DVX User is the best candidate to host the accompanying images and clips. If I were you, I'd petition Barry and Jarred to do just that. Content of this type is best when it's all together in one place... the write-up, the clips, the stills, the discussions. So far, DVX User has the best, most useful write-up from a technical standpoint. Let's encourage them to post the charts as well. Those charts have no business here because there's no useful technical write-up to go with them. Instead all we have is one of the worst profanity-laden flame wars in our history and a boatload of locked threads and pulled posts full of worthless non-technical and inappropriate junk. Which seriously bums me out, so I know just how you feel.

Having known Adam Wilt for a number of years, I have no doubt that his forthcoming print article for DV Magazine will provide everyone with a clear, concise and understandable overview of that day's proceedings and will easily validate all of your hard-working effort many times over.

Evan C. King · January 14th, 2006, 03:58 AM

Does anyone know how long it will take Adam's write up to be published? Will his article as be on dv.com? It's pretty hard to find DV magazine in canada, in fact I'm not even sure if I've seen it here ever.

Chris Hurd · January 14th, 2006, 09:55 AM

Typically print articles for DV Magazine require about a 30-day turnaround or so; some pieces make it to their web site upon print publication or shortly afterwards. I would expect that Adam's shootout article would go to the web.

Tom Roper · January 14th, 2006, 10:03 AM

I'm sorry but there wasn't going to be credibility to the shootout even before the mudslinging because each of the protagonists carries a brand agenda. An argument broke out over the terms of the spin being applied. Why would anyone expect more? Please let this die and learn from it.

Jarrod King · January 14th, 2006, 10:23 AM

"All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorship."
~ Preface to Mrs. Warren's Profession by George Bernard Shaw

"The Internet treats censorship as a malfunction and routes around it."
~ John Perry Barlow

Kurth Bousman · January 14th, 2006, 10:23 AM

Hey Shannon - can I be so forward as to make a suggestion - forget about another forum site. This is the one. But a blog , I think would draw some readers. You seem to have alot to say about media . I , for one , have always got your jokes or style. I think it might fly. I check, when it's possible to get on line , Curtis' site daily, just like here. Give us another point of view . Chris' site should be kept clean of some directions because it's public - a blog can go where it wants. Just an idea. Kurth

Nate Weaver · January 14th, 2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

I'm sorry but there wasn't going to be credibility to the shootout even before the mudslinging because each of the protagonists carries a brand agenda. An argument broke out over the terms of the spin being applied. Why would anyone expect more? Please let this die and learn from it.

I have no brand agenda. I was brought in because I know the HD100. Prior to the test I was well on my way to selling my HD100 for an HVX.

The proctors of the test, who were NOT Barry or Shannon ABSOLUTELY had no brand agenda. those people were Jay Nemeth and Adam Wilt.

I have to make that abundantly clear. Barry Green, nor Shannon, nor I was running the show that day. Adam Wilt and Jay were.

Chris Hurd · January 14th, 2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod King

"All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions.

For Jarrod King: there is absolutely no "censorship" here whatsoever. There is only quality control. This site is my own private property, and I have the constitutionally protected right under Freedom of Speech to edit, delete or keep any content posted to it, as I see fit. In other words, no one can tell me what I must show here, and no one can tell me what I must take away (unless it involves libel, slander or infringement of someone else's copyrights).

Freedom of Speech guarantees me the right to remove content that I don't want my name or my brand to be associated with, such as profanity, vulgarity, overt sexuality, and political or religious viewpoints of any nature. Everybody who posts here has indicated their understanding of and agreement with my policy of removing or editing content that I do not wish to be associated with.

If you don't like the way I conduct my site, then you should exercise your own Freedom of Speech and start your own message board / blog / web site / whatever.

Jarrod, it is clear to me that you have no clear understanding at all of what censorship really is, or what consitutes Freedom of Speech, or that one person's rights end where another person's rights begin. It is my sincere hope for your sake that you become properly educated on these matters, instead of posting famous quotes that bear absolutely no relevance to the context of the proceedings here.

Chris Hurd · January 14th, 2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I have no brand agenda.

For the sake of Nate Weaver and fellow contributors, I think I'm going to clarify for Tom Roper and others of the "conspiracy theory" ilk that publicly accusing anyone of having a brand agenda, or being a corporate shill, or carrying some hidden motive definitely constitutes flaming and will be treated as a violation of our forum policy.

I set up this community originally to get away from the finger-pointing types, and perhaps I've been lax recently with regard to keeping our streets clean for folks like Nate whom I'm honored to have here and for whom this community is specifically targeted.

Expect some janitorial service in the immediate future. Thanks,

David Saraceno · January 14th, 2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

This site is my own private property, and I have the constitutionally protected right under Freedom of Speech to edit, delete or keep any content posted to it, as I see fit. In other words, no one can tell me what I must show here, and no one can tell me what I must take away (unless it involves libel, slander or infringement of someone else's copyrights).

Actually Chris, the first amendment doesn't apply to your private property. You can do with it what you wish quite apart from the Constitution. That protects private parties from improper government action.

Moving ahead, my question is why aren't we here and elsewhere discussing performance and technical issues with the HVX 200?

As I read the various forums, something is occurring that is moving everybody off the topic into a lot of personal attack and other things.

I want to know what the footage looks like in comparison with the other HD and HDV offerings.

I ain't got a camera here in Spokane. I don't know anyone that has one with 1,200 miles of me, except perhaps Jarred in Vancouver and we don't exchange holiday cards.

What can we do to get some comparison footage of identical shots to anyone who wants them?

Chris Hurd · January 14th, 2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Saraceno

Actually Chris, the first amendment doesn't apply to your private property. You can do with it what you wish quite apart from the Constitution. That protects private parties from improper government action.

That's even better. Thanks.

Quote:

What can we do to get some comparison footage of identical shots to anyone who wants them?

Who has this material? If it's Shannon Rawls, why doesn't he post it at his site? If it's Barry Green, why doesn't DVX User host it? I can't do anything with it, as there's no technical report to go with it. Shannon's observations focused on the people at the shootout, and not the hardware, so his report is not what I would call technically useful.

Barry Green · January 14th, 2006, 12:25 PM

Footage has all been turned over to Adam. Expect an article on DV.com shortly, and a more in-depth/expanded version in the print magazine later.

Tim Dashwood · January 14th, 2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan C. King

Does anyone know how long it will take Adam's write up to be published? Will his article as be on dv.com? It's pretty hard to find DV magazine in canada, in fact I'm not even sure if I've seen it here ever.

Try Chapters or Indigo. I saw DV magazine there yesterday.

Jarrod King · January 14th, 2006, 02:00 PM

Chris,

We're all big boys and girls. If Shannon posted something wrong, a post from you could be the next post below it critiquing and arguing against it. Just removing it is censorship in the worst form. If you want your site to be the best it can be, you let the community work out its problems on its own naturally. Treating it like your own personal plaything will make many exercise their right to go elsewhere.

January 14th, 2006, 12:09 AM	#46
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Wow. I'm bummed. I worked too hard for too long that day for this test to be discredited. I'm sure soon enough that charts will be posted so people will realize the test was indeed worth paying attention to. More than my own though were the efforts of Jay Nemeth and Adam Wilt. Jay, by far, worked the hardest that day. I'm sure right now he is shaking his head and telling himself he'll never do this again. I hope I'm wrong on that, though. There will be a writeup by Adam Wilt eventually. He will be voice without hyperbole. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

January 14th, 2006, 12:29 AM	#47
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I'm not discrediting it, Nate. Not by a long shot. I know you guys worked hard that day. My position is that the results should all be housed under one roof for clarity and ease. So far the best technical presentation of the shootout results, meaning, the most useful write-up has been given by Barry Green at DVX User. Therefore DVX User is the best candidate to host the accompanying images and clips. If I were you, I'd petition Barry and Jarred to do just that. Content of this type is best when it's all together in one place... the write-up, the clips, the stills, the discussions. So far, DVX User has the best, most useful write-up from a technical standpoint. Let's encourage them to post the charts as well. Those charts have no business here because there's no useful technical write-up to go with them. Instead all we have is one of the worst profanity-laden flame wars in our history and a boatload of locked threads and pulled posts full of worthless non-technical and inappropriate junk. Which seriously bums me out, so I know just how you feel. Having known Adam Wilt for a number of years, I have no doubt that his forthcoming print article for DV Magazine will provide everyone with a clear, concise and understandable overview of that day's proceedings and will easily validate all of your hard-working effort many times over. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 14th, 2006, 09:55 AM	#49
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Typically print articles for DV Magazine require about a 30-day turnaround or so; some pieces make it to their web site upon print publication or shortly afterwards. I would expect that Adam's shootout article would go to the web. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 14th, 2006, 03:58 AM	#48
Evan C. King Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 532	Does anyone know how long it will take Adam's write up to be published? Will his article as be on dv.com? It's pretty hard to find DV magazine in canada, in fact I'm not even sure if I've seen it here ever.

January 14th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#50
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I'm sorry but there wasn't going to be credibility to the shootout even before the mudslinging because each of the protagonists carries a brand agenda. An argument broke out over the terms of the spin being applied. Why would anyone expect more? Please let this die and learn from it.

January 14th, 2006, 10:23 AM	#51
Jarrod King New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6	"All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorship." ~ Preface to Mrs. Warren's Profession by George Bernard Shaw "The Internet treats censorship as a malfunction and routes around it." ~ John Perry Barlow

January 14th, 2006, 10:23 AM	#52
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Hey Shannon - can I be so forward as to make a suggestion - forget about another forum site. This is the one. But a blog , I think would draw some readers. You seem to have alot to say about media . I , for one , have always got your jokes or style. I think it might fly. I check, when it's possible to get on line , Curtis' site daily, just like here. Give us another point of view . Chris' site should be kept clean of some directions because it's public - a blog can go where it wants. Just an idea. Kurth

January 14th, 2006, 12:25 PM	#58
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Footage has all been turned over to Adam. Expect an article on DV.com shortly, and a more in-depth/expanded version in the print magazine later.

January 14th, 2006, 02:00 PM	#60
Jarrod King New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6	Chris, We're all big boys and girls. If Shannon posted something wrong, a post from you could be the next post below it critiquing and arguing against it. Just removing it is censorship in the worst form. If you want your site to be the best it can be, you let the community work out its problems on its own naturally. Treating it like your own personal plaything will make many exercise their right to go elsewhere.