How much is MOBILE HDMI or HD-SDI PLUS analog SD/HD aquisition worth to you?
 

How much is a MOBILE HDMI or HD-SDI PLUS analog SD/HD 4:2:2 YUV 10bit aquisition solution worth to you?



I can build one. I registered specifically to post this and asses the depth of this potential market.
If the numbers don't work then it's not a valid business idea.


The form factor of the box is 30 x 20 x 8 cm, which can be carried in an oversized pocket or a small backpack. Inside the box is an embedded PC with a 2.5" 80 GB HDD and a Core 2 Duo processor. There is a built-in PSU for AC power where available, and also a 12 V DC jack for totally mobile operation.
100 Mb Ethernet is builtin and Gb Ethernet can be provided as a build option.
These two Blackmagic design cards http://blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/specs/
capture the HD-SDI or HDMI signal, and both include analog capture to boot! (card to be selected at build time)

HD-SDI: DeckLink HD Extreme
HDMI: DeckLink HD Studio
Both cards feature XLR analog audio inputs and other pro features like blackburst/trisync.

The box runs Windows XP Embedded with Blackmagic's Online mjpeg HD codec and custom glue software; it is accessible as attached storage via USB and Ethernet. The average bit-rate for the mjpeg codec is 12 MB/s at 1080 60i, yielding over two hours of continuous aquisition for a 80 MB HDD. The HDD is not (currently) removable, so you would need to offload the files to other storage (takes about 30min for 80 GB of data). However an external USB drive can be used for capture and storage. If this concept becomes a profitable market reality I will probably design my own enclosure with a removable HDD tray.

Mobility:
I see two deployment scenarios:
a) AC mains is available on set and the box is plugged to mains and tethered to the camera;
For HDMI copper or optic fiber cable is used (fiber allows for much longer cable runs but is also more vulnerable mechanically).
For HD-SDI coax with possibly very long cable runs is used.
b) Full mobile operation from a 12 V DC battery like this one http://www.powerstream.com/BP-60.htm
A battery belt with three to five of these wired in parallel is more realistic, as only one wouldn't last very long at all. It will make for a heavy belt.


Production cost:
Think of this as a poor man's Wafian HR-1. The hardware will be sourced in low volume and therefore close to or at retail price. For reference, the Decklink HD cards come in at $995.


So, just HOW MUCH IS 10-bit 4:2:2 YUV full HDTV aquisition WORTH TO YOU? And how many of you are out there? I'll start taking reservations next week ;)

Seriously, it would have to be a healthy margin and a minimum number of say 100 customers to consider entering this business. I have the R&D resources to pull it off, but no significant capital to invest, so the first dozen units will be built to order only, with payment in escrow.

It may take me abouth 6 months to bring this to market. Help me decide if this is good business or not. Post your bid price!


Warm regards,

Alex Maranda

I'm sorry Alex but you have GOT to be joking...right? We shoot uncompressed 4:2:2 10 bit HD and for 30 seconds we use 5 GIGs of storage. So that means you could get 8 minutes of footage with your 80 gig hard drive, provided you could get a fibre channel or e-sata RAID in the box you describe. USB or FireWire will not work.

ah, but when you're compressing it on the fly, you don't have to write the raw video to disk.

laptops don't have easily obtained hi-bandwidth external interfaces. if they did then i'd think you could suck in 4:2:2 10-bit HD video, compress it on the fly, and store it to an internal 7200rpm drive. the encoders are lean and easily implemented: http://www.koders.com/c/fidD66AD8BE2...C958F6325.aspx and you might easily get 15:1 compression out of it (so 8 * 15 = 120 = 2 hours of footage).

@Dave

Hi, no joke Dave; as Ali has mentioned, this is on the fly compression, at a bit-rate slightly lower than Cineform's DI (which BTW is an option as well if $2,500 for Prospect HD ingest software is within reason and there is a market for it). If someone can evaluate Blackmagic mjpeg vs Cineform DI I would appreciate it.

Think of this as a Core 2 Duo laptop with no screen (it is in fact based on the Centrino mobile platform) in a small box form factor (however retaining USB and VGA/DVI outputs, just like the Mac Mini). UNLIKE the Mac Mini, this box has a PCI Express x16 slot (and also a 32bit PCI slot), so you can fit a Blackmagic capture card in it. The legacy PCI can be used for a Gb Ethernet card.

My concern currently is the height of the heatsinks on the $995 Blackmagic cards - it is unclear if they will fit in the box (which is only 8 cm high). A riser card is used and the heatsinks are about 4 cm in height - dicy; power dissipation needs to be worked out - the plan is to transfer from the heatsinks directly to the aluminium enclosure. This is going to be a hot box! (whichever way you look at it).

The Intensity HDMI ($250) card does fit nicely (flatter heatsink and less power used), and could be a build option for the price conscious. However it is 4:2:2 8 bit not 10 bit, so it would be a match for the consumer camcorders like the SR1. Although it seems even serious cams like the V1U output 8 bit color in a 10 bit format!

After replying to Dave, I followed that line of thought and I think there are a few feature/price points people may be interested in:

Consider $XXXX to be the price of the baseline box.

Value level:
4:2:2 8 bit HDMI only: Baseline+Intensity: $XXXX+$250

Production level:
4:2:2 10 bit HDMI or HD-SDI (plus analog), mjpeg compression: Baseline+DeckLink HD: $XXXX+$995

DigitalFilm level:
4:2:2 10 bit HDMI or HD-SDI (plus analog), Cineform DI compression:
Baseline+DeckLink HD+Prospect HD ingest: $XXXX+$995+$2500


So you have the following price points:
$XXXX+$250
$XXXX+$995
$XXXX+$3495

OK, I'll admit that what you are proposing sounds doable, but I thought the whole point was to maintain an uncompressed 422 workflow?

I'm confused. Are you saying with an encoder like this you can turn a laptop in to 4.2.2 capture device? (providing there's some kinda sdi interface...) If so, why would we need the "Maranda Box"? (patent pending)

Brian, you were quoting Ali not me. I said nothing about using a laptop in a laptop form factor. What I did say is I would use the Centrino mobile platform (on which laptops are also built) in a different and more useful form factor, namely a 30 x 20 x 8 cm box, with AC PSU builtin and 12 V DC power (external battery). This box (supplied as an embedded PC by a Taiwanese manufacturer) has a PCI Express slot, which a laptop of course lacks.
I will mod the box for dual power (to accomodate mobile operation), install a Blackmagic card (build option as per my initial post), provide a custom Windows XP Embedded image with the required software on a CF card (which by the way is field swappable, so for example a DigitalFilm option with Cineform DI is a 20 seconds upgrade), stress test the device and ship it.

The box will be branded with a boring production name instead of my last name. Warranty will be provided by my company; I am an electronics engineer.

@Dave

For those people wanting an uncompressed HD workflow this solution is indeed of no interest; that market is catered by the Wafian HR-1, at $17,500 a pop.

However, for those who find useful a Digital Intermediate and have a significantly lower budget, this solution gives them an entry point; this can be either Blacmagic's Online mjpeg codec, or at an extra cost, Cineform DI through Prospect HD.

Yes I understand it was Ali's post. I just had the idea that to do something like that required some sort of hot rod Raid array.

Personally, if I wanted something like that I'd be inclined to just mod a laptop (assuming it's feasible) cuz despite the larger form factor, i'd be able to use the lap as a monitor, editor, any number of other options.

Good luck though on your project.

Unless I'm missing something here, why not just use a laptop with a Magma portable PCI chassis?

@David Jones

two words: form factor. Compare a body worn 30 x 20 x 8cm box plus a battery belt used outdoors, with a laptop plus a Magma enclosure.
It really depends on what your project is - think downhill skiing with helmet mounted cam and box in a vest pocket in terms of mobility; I would agree this is very much a niche market though :)
Let's try something else...umm Amazon jungle trip? mountaineering expedition? safari? ATV? skydiving? cave exploration? Any uncontrolled fast paced environment. Ummm....night clubs? high end WEDDINGS??
Also consider the total solution price if you don't already own a suitable laptop (a CardBus or Expresscard slot is required). The Magma is not cheap! This box works out more cost effective than a new laptop plus the Magma enclosure.

@Brian

Modding a laptop...how? I would appreciate technical insight on what that means. You may be thinking of using the Expresscard slot (which is what the Magma does to connect to the laptop - an external enclosure is still needed).

What David said.

I'm not trying to discourage you. Form factor is a huge thing for some people. I know a lap top is just too much baggage for some. I think it's a great idea.

Why only 80gigs of storage? How many batteries will you have to carry with you for a days of shooting?

I'm sorry, I just don't get these indie film solutions. Why not just shoot on a better format?

I think heat dissipation and power consumption will be a very critical issue for that Core 2 (and the HDD). Intels are not known for their efficiency. You should consider an AMD mobile processor and a more embedded OS, probably stored on a locked flash drive. Also, why limit to a 2.5" drive? It's a very minor incremental cost to get a 350gb or even 500gb 3.5" drive and store 4-5 times as much data at a much higher transfer rate.

Wifi ! That is what devices like the firestore are missing. Even if it's not realtime transfer, do it to dodge the risks and engineering hurdles of hot connectors.

I hate to say that these kinds of solutions, while ideal for people like me, do not sell well. Good luck though.

I want to correct myself, the Wafian is also Prospect HD with 10 bit Cineform DI. Just to muse a bit on the question posed by Dave Perry, who exactly wants to store 1.485 Gbit/s? Noone is doing this, not Silicon Imaging with a 2k sensor (they use Cineform RAW), and not RED (they have REDCODE). Everybody compresses to various degrees.

120 and 160 GB HDD are available as well in 2.5'' form factor. It can be a build option. The point of 80 GB was to provide an intuitive reference for two hours of shooting, also being the sweet spot $/GB in 2.5'' form factor. Build option for sure.

This product concept targets a niche market where MOBILITY, low budgets and high resolution (both pixels and color) are important.

If you shoot with CineAlta or with SI or RED, then this is not your thing. If you shoot with the SR1, the V1U, the Canon G1/H1 (I listed them from the low to high end), then this could a product of value for you. Unless HDV@25Mbit is already good enough. What was the better format you were refering to?

Jad, I take your post in good faith; it is apparent you diagonally read the thread.
I will address your concerns one by one:
- it isn't a Core 2 Duo desktop it is the mobile Merom version (T7400 if you must), with a thermal envelope under 25W. AMD Turion has a higher thermal envelope than this; besides, I am using a SBC (which stand for Single Board Computer) designed around the Centrino mobile platform. I don't design this from scratch. I understand you are a fan of AMD laptops.
- a more embedded OS; as in what? vxWorks? Nucleus? Monta Vista Linux? and more exactly WHY, when the Blackmagic DRIVERS and the compression software (namely Online mjpeg or Prospect HD) runs only on Windows XP (Embedded or not). Just to stress the point: Off the shelf software you can buy now.
- The custom software image IS locked and stored on a CF card, which is field swappable. This CF contains a Windows XP Embedded build with only the required drivers and compression software, and power management. Re-read the thread.
- the 2.5'' HDD comes from the current form factor of the box, which has a 2.5'' shock-mount HDD bay. Also the higher storage is not really useful unless what you want is 12 hours of continuous HD shooting. Power consumption is also a factor - this box is meant to run off a battery belt.
- Wifi: transmitting to what exactly? and why? (I'll ignore the bit-rates for this discussion; I actually won't - 800.11g is 54Mbit/sec peak with 25 Mbit/sec effective). The solution proposed has a builtin 100 Mb Ethernet and optional Gbit ethernet (which I will provide anyway since it's like $30 a card). This Gbit Ethernet will allow accesss to the internal HDD (when offloaded to other storage) at its peak burst rate or 40 MB/sec (which - pay attention to bits and bytes), is an order of magnitude more than Wifi. Since we're discussing bitrates, both the mjpeg and the Cineform codecs are under 15 MB/sec, well under the average sustained rate of a 2.5'' HDD.



I would also like to make a general comment to you and other posters who replied to this thread. This wasn't meant as an applications engineering wiki; If you guys care to comment on the real hurdles I would face engineering-wise I will happily take the discussion offline with you; so far you haven't touched any of it, probably because none of those who replied are practicing electronics engineers.

Also, (this is actually more frustrating :), none of you touched the question that I did ask! What is this worth to you?
What is an attractive $XXXX to you IF YOU ARE IN THE MARKET?
And how many of you are out there?

Can I please get $$$$ replies from here on ;) This is market research, luck shouldn't be a factor when considering expensive gear. If there isn't a margin to make a business out of it, I will just use the prototype for my own video productions. It certainly is cost effective and future proof to me.

If you plan to use or are using one of the following cameras:
Sony HDR-SR1
Sony HDR-FX7
Sony HVR-V1U
Canon XH-G1
Canon XH-H1
...and future HDMI or HD-SDI cameras

this post MAY be for you, if you're interested in 1920x1080 4:2:2 10 bit YUV acquisition.

add to the camera list
JVC GY-HD100u
which has analog component output, supported by the DeckLink HD cards.

My answer to that would have to be cost wise, the same amount as you pay for it. Like yourself many of us here in these forums have been discussing and salivating and waiting for price/performance of uncompressed or better yet visually lossless capture systems to become doable. Many of these same people are extreemly up to date on hardware/software. Now that there are extreemly capable cams on the market and the intoduction of mobile dual cores has made everything extreemly doable now with high compression low bandwidth codecs. There have been many threads on this with many different means to an end explored. I think it fair to say that nothing that is not off the the shelf, is needed here.
This is not to say that some eager individual(you?) can't make a strong go of it (alienwear makes gaming PC's with completely off the shelf items, and the non techie loves it.) My advice to you is to build a working system, spec it out, include a worth while markup (bare minimum), and advertise it at the price YOU arrive at. I personally believe there is a market as long as the price is reasonable. If it sells you can always increase the price. If it doesn't sell, drop it like a rock.

Hi Ken, Vancouver is my previous home :) I understand you guys have had quite the weather recently...

As per your reply: The same amount I pay for it? At cost? I don't quite get your brand of humor. All the knowledgeable people can go the DIY route then. Or not??
Ken, look, this is not a home improvement project you go to Home Depot and get "components" from. Alienware (I like your comparison!) makes PCs other ENGINEERS could build, if they can handle the logistics.
Of course, other skilled engineers who are not put off by sourcing components from distributors all over the world could have a go at this, just like I can.


This is clearly a niche market, one I don't expect any volume manufacturer to enter - the consumer doesn't know better or care. At the other end of the scale there is the Wafian.

This comes in between, low(er) cost, wearable!, highly mobile. Speaking of mobility: it can be made self-contained!
I can remove the PSU and place a battery inside, with an external charger. No need for a battery belt. I would love to get feedback on usability factors like this one.

Show of hands please! I will not start building these in series without a 50 unit waiting list. I'll just show off pictures of my prototype, as inspiration for other DIY builders :)

With all due respect Alex, it would be just as foolish for us to get on a waiting list for a product that has yet to be designed, tested, and priced, by someone we know nothing about,

as it would be for you to set a pricing structure by asking a forum "what is it worth to you" without knowing your cost and time involvement, or setting up a support structure.

as it would be for you to set a pricing structure by asking a forum "what is it worth to you" without knowing your cost and time involvement, or setting up a support structure.

"Setting up a support structure," now that's a brilliant question. Do you plan on fixing 100 some odd machines for their useful life span or are you going to send people to the wayside when their harddrive crashes (hypothetically)?

I think heat may be an issue as well. All the best of luck in the world to you Alex. I think this is a cool idea, but this is one area where smaller would seem to not to be better.

Yes we have had some big winds on the coast this year. Also more snow then we have had for a long time(and it stayed for more then a day! Yech)

But back to the topic. My point about cost was that many people will be in the D.I.Y category, and once you consider a reasonable markup for yourself it wouldn't be worth it for many of us. Just like my previous point of Alienwear gaming PC's. Nice PC's but I would waste extra money on their product when I could build it far cheaper myself. But obviously many people do buy them.
The factor many of us are saying is build it. Get a web page. Show picks. Spec it out. And give us a final price. You may very well be surprised at your level of response and have a ton of orders lined up. It is no surprise that people want a product like this. But do they want your product at your price? Show it to us with a price and we will give you feed back.

David, Greg, Ken,

these are excellent questions; I intend to provide warranty for the whole system, which cannot be longer than the warranty I get for the individual parts; outside that I will offer paid extended warranty. Any firmware upgrades will be free under warranty.
The warranty of a HDD is tipically two or three years; it depends on the manufacturer. The cost of shipping under warranty repair will be split 50% with the customer. At a minimum there will be a two year system warranty included in the purchase price, for "normal" failure modes (that is - no visibile physical abuse).

About heat dissipation: yes, as I already alluded to this, it is a challenge. Because of the very small size of the box, active cooling is not an option. However, the enclosure is made of an alluminium alloy, with good thermal conductivity. I plan to use the whole enclosure as a heatsink - it will be quite warm to touch, by design.

Do you have an oppinion on the usability (mobility) factor? As I mentioned, I could remove the PSU and replace it with a heavy duty battery INSIDE the enclosure. It will make the box quite a bit heavier, but just one item to carry. However leaving out the PSU will make the design exclusively mobile; that is, when the battery runs out (wont last the hour I'm afraid) you have to recharge. With the PSU plugged to AC mains one could shoot until the HDD is full, but for mobility would have to carry a separate battery pack/belt.

I will take your advice and build the prototype; my attempt at market research was more about volume projections and feature set than what price the market will bear. The price for the first units will carry retail markup from my parts sources. If I get any decent volume going, I will be able to pass on the discounts.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Guilty.

25W is very high, in my opinion, for a CPU in a device of this footprint. I was suggesting something more embedded so that you could offload processing from the main CPU and thereby reduce the overall power requirements. With a daughter encoder board, this should not be a processor-heavy task. A 400mhz celeron would be plenty of power for managing I/O.

How about Windows CE? And I had no idea the drivers only worked on XP; I would have expected them to work on 2000, Vista, and Unix (Mac). Windows Embedded is no more 'off-the-shelf' than QNX Neutrino..

I was poorly implying that locking the boot image away from the user would allow the storage medium to be field-swappable instead.

What about shooting three consecutive days of a trip? 12 hours of continuous shooting sounds like a lot until you talk about more than one shoot.

Many wireless technologies are reaching 100MB, even on an 802.11b foundation. Having a high speed wired transport is great, but what I would like to see is a low-speed (i.e. real-time) wireless transport, so I could duplicate to a high-density data storage solution at the same time, or even use a wireless, completely digital, field monitor. This feature was more of a personal request than something with mass appeal.

Well if you're going to try and sell me a tech device that you've built and assembled, I'm going to need to know what's in it. Your post sounded like a feeler thread. You put enough specifications in your post to make it sound like a tech doc, but then you criticize the tech people who read it! I'm just trying to help a fellow EE, sheesh.


I would be prepared to pay about 2500-3000 for it (not including cost of storage medium). I don't know if that's reasonable or not, but there's one number.

It's a good idea for a solid project; I didn't mean to say otherwise.

Jad, I may have been a wee bit abrasive...I guess I need to pick up some customer support skills. Thing is you didn't come off as an EE (I stand corrected), rather more like fishing for buzz features. I don't have OEM R&D resources or budget, hence the locked down spec right down to form factor, OS, and connectivity.
Look, if Wifi is really a cool feature to have then it can become a build option (a Wifi PCI card is $90), but at the expense of Gigabit Ethernet! I thought Gb Ethernet is a no-brainer, but if you can make do with the onboard 100 Mbit plus a Wifi card then I will be happy to build your rig.

$3000 you say....not with one of the $995 DeckLink HD cards I'm afraid - remember I don't get any volume discount since there's no volume. It may be a feasible price point for the Intensity HDMI card though.

You do have a point with the 25 W TDP for Merom; fortunately the CPU socket is also pin compatible with Yonah cores, which go down to 9-11 W in battery mode. OTOH Merom can be undervolted by some margin....this is one for the lab tests to tell.

I still don't get al of these quables over form factor here. The way I see it, if you are already carrying around lights, props, support, grip equip, etc.

Here is my idea: For under a $5000 price point, seems like you could build and market a dedicated capture machine into a 2u or 3u rack case. In this rack you could have a hot swappable raid (optional maybe?), you could output either timecode or a reference video signal routable to an external recorder (maybe in the same rack?), have plenty of cooling and power options. While you wouldn't have the form factor, you have a very scalable solution that would work for a variety of situations, and have the option of capturing uncompressed if there is the need. This option might appeal to people who regularly use larger cams like the xdcams and the F900. Just an idea though.

Personally I would be happy with a ATX microATX form factor. Larger components would give the option of full sized drives and the capability of using less cpu intensive codecs like sheervideo or mjpeg2000 at the sacrifice of drive space(which is cheap and plenty full at the 3.5" size(two disk RAID). Ultra small form factor would be nice, but I don't know if the cost/performance would be worth it for many. I have become used to shooting HDV with a laptop and HDV rack. I need that large LCD monitor and clip control. But then again I don't do run and gun, so finding wired power isn't a problem and if it is I'm not adverse to packing along an inverter and some deep cell batteries. If I have to go fleet of foot then I have the HDV tape to carry me through without worry.
As soon as someone figures out how to get HDMI into a laptop, with rapid adoption of HDMI by the new cams now, I think ultra portable uncompressed will be in the reach of everyone. Now if we can just get HDVrack to work uncompressed. Of course I am behind anyone who is willing to push the envelope in developing anything lossless and portable.

I would buy one. Even a low quality HDV hard drive recorder costs €2000. If this thing is going to be about €4-6000 (card dependent) then its obviously going to be a hugely popular product. If it had some kind of video out you could plug in something to monitor the video.

Phil

Phil, indeed it does! VGA, DVI, S-Video and six USB ports so you have keyboard support as well. It really is a small but fully featured embedded PC. It costs a lot more than the equivalent desktop or laptop though, like other high end embedded systems.

Alex, I'm a bit torn as to what to think here.

1) I would love to record a modestly compressed digital or analog HD signal with an ultraportable device. That would mean being able to use the XL-H1 or HD200U with a 35mm or 16mm adapter, recording to a 4:2:2 colorspace. That would give SERIOUS power to an indie filmmaker for under $15k. If I needed it tomorrow for a shoot, $3-$4k would be a drop in the bucket.

2) I can't imagine that a big company isn't going to come out with a dedicated hardware solution to this problem very soon. Procon already makes an Analog to Digital Hard Drive recorder for SD. It won't be too much longer for a quality HD solution.

3) An HDMI card for a macbook pro would put you out of business. risky.

4) The next generation of cameras may very well record 4:2:2 AVCHD to an internal harddrive.

Hardware solution = elegant (think ipod nano with 14 hours of battery life)
Software solution = very tough (think palm treo 650 running mp3 software with 3 hours of battery life)

you mean an Expresscard; the R&D investment for that is north of a couple of millions USD; it is debatable this market (low budget indie) has enough depth to make it profitable. And you still wouldn't get the form factor :)
laptop with expresscard (17'') = no run and gun
not with the current AVCHD (4:2:0) spec they won't. I agree it's not a tech issue, but market positioning. Why would Sony and others put pressure on their high end line? HDMI is the new S-Video market-wise, it's just incidental that shooters want pro color sampling on the cheap ;)

This is a good idea but it might be hard to make it profitable. The lower end customers this is geared toward might not pay what you'd need to charge to make it worth your while.

Alex, your example of capturing skiing footage makes sense because footage like that can break down under HDV compression but then why not just shoot with the HVX200 in those types of situations? Or if that's the type of footage one were to regularly shoot (say if you made Skate Board videos) then an HVX200 isn't going to be much more than an HDV cam + embedded capture box. I'm just guessing here and from reading other posts an embedded system with all the R&D needed would be $4000+.

That being said, if it's well designed, rugged and works really really well then you could probably charge enough to make it worth it. It would be great to see what you come up with!

Even if it did, it and DVCproHD are still miles from the quality straight from the heads, uncompressed footage captured to a lossless codec provides.

Adding my interest.

By the way, estimated availability?

I don't want to step on any toes here, but I do want to point out that we at Colorspace officially announced today at the HPA Retreat in Palm Springs, CA the ICON recorder.

http://www.colorspaceinc.com/icon/

This is an uncompressed recorder that ingests various flavors of HD-SDI to DPX file format. It is touchscreen driven, although also designed to be shot without the touch screen, and features swappable media packs. Plenty of other details on the site.

After NAB we'll be shipping a compressed version based on the same modular electronics but with less expensive media packs and high bitrate compression (read: records lightly compressed 4:2:2 material). We're very interested in what DVinfo users would like to see in such a recorder (recording formats, compression levels, HDMI input, etc). If you have input, i'll be talking to Chris Hurd about the best way to speak directly to the audience here (our own forum, etc).. but for now, you can e-mail us any thoughts or questions: prosumer@colorspaceinc.com (I promise we won't spam you, etc)

FYI, the compressed ICON is currently targeted at a "sub-$10k" price for a recorder package. I believe we can get the price lower as we streamline production details over the next few months.. but only time will tell.

Merci Adam.

And your camera? How is it going? When will it be available? By the way, wasn't there a 4k version?

Where are the photos?

MK

what about this system? I won't fit in your backpack, so it's less portable so not really comparable on that matter, but looks like a great system further on

http://www.purplelink.info/specs.html

No toes have been harmed; I only have to beat Colorspace and Pentamagik at form factor and price after all ;-)
Competition is a good thing, I'm clearly aiming lower end (not usability-wise!) than these two solutions.

@Mathieu
Since this is has become a competitive landscape, the onus is on me to hit the market window. That will mean Q3 2007.
I am altering specs as we speak (not substracting but incorporating some of the good feedback I got in this thread - thank you guys, even if I didn't sound thankful at the time!); the key MOBILITY factor will not change.

The only thing I will disclose before I go to quiet mode is that I decided to get a custom built enclosure, of similar dimensions. This may seem shallow but can you guys vote on varnish colors - it helps me choose between one manufacturer or another.
For example, the more expensive manufacturer (but better quality and with solid reputation in the business) can deliver vivid colors like Yellow, Deep Blue, Flaming Red, Pale Green, whereas the cheaper one will give me nondescript black. We're not talking thousands of $ difference, but a couple hundred in production price.
Do you guys even care (about color); I could charge a couple hundred more for black though in classic Apple style - now that's a thought! ;-)